SpeedCrazy Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Interesting video... but given the various gun legislation around the world it was purely and simply a means to an end, elsewhere it may have been a baseball bat (OR bucket of water) etc. the Father was relatively composed but obviously hurt at being publically shamed by his Daughter's FB activity and lack of respect for both her family & herself, his action was dramatic for "effect"... All I keep hearing about is people's (and children's) rights, we teach it in our schools & we talk about it in various media BUT what about our (collective) responsibilities? responsibilities to our family, society, employer and Nation... simply put we must learn to adjust to coexisting with others and recognize (and address) our own selfish impulses especially if they will lead to collateral damage to others. Chores are character building, an effective alternative form of punishment AND teach responsibility including the value of money (where an allowance/pocket money is introduced), "cash handouts" help no child/individual... unfortunately and perhaps it's a reflection of current societal values but people are losing sight of the basic principle of if you want something YOU need to work for it, there is no such thing as automatic entitlement. Punishment should be reasonable and proportionate that doesn't negate corporal punishment because it's necessary during a child's life to set and enforce boundaries, a warning means nothing without the spectre of punishment, keep in mind that prior to children reaching the "age of reason" their brain's wiring hasn't developed sufficiently to adequately process information (and why they are unable to judge speed and distance safely ie. near roads), later during their development cycle bans, groundings and confiscation are an increasingly effective means of punitive measure. Best post yet. Def. agree on the brain thing. I know i have done and still do some incredibly dumb things. The worst bit is at the time they seem logical and obvious. This is what i was try to get at with my definitions of adult in child. The reason for the distinction. +1 for articulating it so well. Anyone who never did anything disregarding the consequences as a child(or adult lol) raise your hands? ^@Spike did you read dr_bowties post? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathmineral Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Best post yet. Def. agree on the brain thing. I know i have done and still do some incredibly dumb things. The worst bit is at the time they seem logical and obvious. This is what i was try to get at with my definitions of adult in child. The reason for the distinction. +1 for articulating it so well. Anyone who never did anything disregarding the consequences as a child(or adult lol) raise your hands? ^@Spike did you read dr_bowties post? What do you mean by disregarding? Like you know of the consequences and simply decide to ignore them or you're ignorant of the consequences? I'm sure that I've done both of those but I would certainly say the former was/is more common for me. However I know a lot of kids that were simply too stupid, I mean you'd be sitting there afraid they'd forget how to breath stupid, not an exaggeration, I've seen it happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyt Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Should have let this thread stay closed, nothing more to be said, if it's just to get to the 500 mark I guess this is one more towards it.Yipee 500, big deal ! Whole tread Was a waste of cyber space imo. Obviously you did not read this This thread is to STAY ON TOPIC... NO more will there be post made that aren't pertinent to the topic at hand. ANY Post made that is NOT on topic will result is a 5 day vacation to ANY Member making said post... We arent bluffing on the rules, enjoy your 5 day ban Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedway Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 What do you mean by disregarding? Like you know of the consequences and simply decide to ignore them or you're ignorant of the consequences? Pretty sure the definition of disregarding would fall under the exact opposite of ignorance! Usually to disregard something, you need to have the knowledge of what is being disregarded! But, I would say many teenagers, especially the rebellious are the epitome of disregard. Also I am not saying ALL teenagers, so please don't start a "Speedway you are generalizing" argument. I am just saying IMHO, "many" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boinker Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Pretty sure the definition of disregarding would fall under the exact opposite of ignorance! Usually to disregard something, you need to have the knowledge of what is being disregarded! But, I would say many teenagers, especially the rebellious are the epitome of disregard. Also I am not saying ALL teenagers, so please don't start a "Speedway you are generalizing" argument. I am just saying IMHO, "many" I see you making an on but not so much off topic comment..... cant find the logic but oh well. Heck what I find the worst thing about some kids when they look at parents and sum up there life they see a "glass that is 1/4 empty". And there is usually nothing wrong with there lives. Its just a bent out of shape perception that they hold because they never had to work for anything in there life, never saw life in someones shoes that there glass was actually "half empty". and OF COURSE when things get tough they think there life is over, they overreact and then they do something desperate or Stupid. But the situation is easily fixed most of the time. Alot of it comes to accountability and self discipline which is becoming a lost art to teach. Take this for example. Technician is pouring oil in fill port of engine. Tech one gets in too much of a hurry and spills oil all over side of engine. Tech one proceeds to become upset and blame the oil bucket for the mess he cause. Whats missing in this situation??? Simple accountability for ones actions. I about died trying not to laugh from his pure lack of just not holding himself accountable for the mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazwegion Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) A lot of it comes to accountability and self discipline which is becoming a lost art to teach. Take this for example. Technician is pouring oil in fill port of engine. Tech one gets in too much of a hurry and spills oil all over side of engine. Tech one proceeds to become upset and blame the oil bucket for the mess he cause. Whats missing in this situation??? Simple accountability for ones actions. I about died trying not to laugh from his pure lack of just not holding himself accountable for the mess. Exacta-mondo! the adage "a bad craftsman blames his tools" has never been more accurate than when used to describe the current societal trend of people's lack of self accountability, this is yet another facet of what I was referring to previously regarding teaching responsibility to our children, I can't say exactly when it started but it's a phenomenon which is likely akin with the technological revolution ie. how many times have you heard the excuse "sorry the system's down OR crashed" before? We're all human and the easy way out of a situation has it's appeal BUT how can we teach responsibility if we don't take responsibility for our own actions? Bottom line, the Youth of the world are vital to the advance (and upkeep) of the human race BUT they can only start out with the values, life skills and morals their parents instill in them (that's not to say some kids won't go off the rails as there no absolutes in life), however as previously mentioned kids don't come with an instruction manual and I'd like to go further and say not all children are created the same (different emotional, cultural & disciplinary needs) what irks me most and which has unfortunately had the greatest negative impact on raising children is the "prolific endemic known as experts" Def. agree on the brain thing. I know i have done and still do some incredibly dumb things. The worst bit is at the time they seem logical and obvious. This is what i was try to get at with my definitions of adult in child. The reason for the distinction. +1 for articulating it so well. Thanks Edited February 18, 2012 by tazwegion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
medbor Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Finally some one mentioned the brain thing! It was so much beeing written at one moment so it was plainly forgotten somewhere along the discussion. All children are not created equal, and thus needs different forms of dicipline. Even twins will have different personalities and one wil usually become the 'leader' of them, and will probably need stricter dicipline. I think this discussion really came to a conlusion when it became obvious that most opinions are inherited from when each person was raised and we all like to believe that we had a perfect childhood. If people would just question the ideals from their youth an really question themselves if those really are the ones to stand by when faced with other ways to argue, then a lot of stuff would really go away. Mostly it is all about beeing open about other peoples opinions and argue for what you believe, not what you where raised to believe. I can stand people that have a hard time expressing where they stand much more than i can stand people that ony express the views of their parents, or stay out the discussion entirely. Most of my friends have totaly different views of really important stuff like religion and homosexuality, but i can listen to them and they can stand by their opinions enough so that we can agree to disagree (and from that we both learn a lot) instead of just staying away from the topic entirely. The father had previousy reprimaned the daughter and told her that next time would be worse, now she will believe him in the sence that it is not just empty words. ===================================---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The brain actually relates to the homosexuallity discussion earlier, as it has a lot to do with hormones while within their mother woom, and the brains deveopement. ===================================---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think this thread had a honest and civil discussion of a lot of problems and very little bashing of opinions. Yes it was off topic, but it was a natural progression to get there, much like the bulldozer/llano thread which i've been following evolved into piledriver/trinity information. I just have to dissaprove with closing threads which are community driven, it was nice to see that people was on different sides regarding parenting had similar states about other things. Simply changing the title to "parenting and social matters discussion" would solve it in my opinion Some comments about the great discussion before: sharing wealth weird? how come sweden got through the economic crisis among the best in the world? We have about 50% taxes (30% income and 25% sales), but for that we get healthcare for 20$ per visit (maximum 300$ per year), maximum 300$ spent on medicine each year, free school (including university), students get paid 300$ per month as long as they handle their studies, about 80% of the population are secalurised (including most muslims), each parent get 250$ per child per month, i coud go on... Its really all about equal opportunities for all people disegarding race, income of their parents, social status. Even if your mother is raising you in the ghetto you can get a masters degree, sure that is what you guys are saying is possible in you country but in ours that happens a lot. You would have to be very lucky if that would happen to you in USA right? In sweden less than 1% outside of the military have guns, and we have far less gun voilence per capita than most countries. Needing a gun to "protect" yourself from laws are just wrong. if the "democratic" process approves of the law then people should follow it and try to change it from within the system not defend their stance with guns. Fox News is one of the worst things about USA in my opinion, but thats another topic. Except for sending a few troops here and there we have not parcipitated in a war since 1809, there was not even a war when we lost norway in 1905. Regarding Angels "giving people on welfare a free ride" comment that really just shows a disrespect for the human soul. Most people cant stand to just sit at home for a year, they want to get on with their lives and earn their own money. Mating for life among humans are long gone, even for the greek in 500BC . between men where for pleasure an . with women where just to reproduce. Sure you can think this is wrong, i probably do, but in the real world today marriages are not at all for life, an those who are will probably have had a few partners beforehand. deathmineral +1 (the post before the thread closing) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_bowtie Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 FINALLY.... Someone who understand all children are different and are not text book cases... What works for one child/parent may not work for another... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjj226_Angel Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Pretty sure the definition of disregarding would fall under the exact opposite of ignorance! Usually to disregard something, you need to have the knowledge of what is being disregarded! But, I would say many teenagers, especially the rebellious are the epitome of disregard. Also I am not saying ALL teenagers, so please don't start a "Speedway you are generalizing" argument. I am just saying IMHO, "many" You are still generalizing. I am not saying you are generalizing all teenagers (obviously), but you are generalizing the rebellious ones. Some rebellious teenagers are rebelling for a good reason. For instance the entire hippy movement that so many of you seem to have forgotten. They rebelled for peace and love for all of human kind.......not because they aren't getting 40 bucks to go to the mall. Even though I know it is impossible to get any of my points across, but one point that really needs to be heard is that sometimes children are just flat out better than their parents and adults in general. I also think it is a lot less rare than one might believe. So when you and others make comments like kids need discipline and structure, the truth is not all of them do. Some of them are just on a higher level than all of us, even myself, and I don't think it is fair to say that one rebelling teenager is the same as the next one, when one teenager might have a REALLY good reason to rebel. In fact, my mom, my next door neighbor, my professors, and myself all agree that this girl was rebelling for a good reason. Of course that is because most of us believe that strict parenting doesn't teach anything, so we might be a little bias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjj226_Angel Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 FINALLY.... Someone who understand all children are different and are not text book cases... What works for one child/parent may not work for another... I even agree. I am living proof of this concept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Even though I know it is impossible to get any of my points across, but one point that really needs to be heard is that sometimes children are just flat out better than their parents and adults in general. I also think it is a lot less rare than one might believe. So when you and others make comments like kids need discipline and structure, the truth is not all of them do. Some of them are just on a higher level than all of us, even myself, and I don't think it is fair to say that one rebelling teenager is the same as the next one, when one teenager might have a REALLY good reason to rebel. In fact, my mom, my next door neighbor, my professors, and myself all agree that this girl was rebelling for a good reason. Of course that is because most of us believe that strict parenting doesn't teach anything, so we might be a little bias I can't believe I just read this without busting out laughing. Posting that people agree with you doesn't strengthen your argument so you might as well stop doing it. Nobody is saying that all kids are the same...but nobody in their right mind would say that "children are better than adults". Children are by definition not mature. All kids need discipline and structure when they're growing up. No, that doesn't mean they should all be treated the same, but to say that some don't need it at all is asinine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedway Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Also, just to add to what Waco said, anyone who thinks that this girl was rebelling for good reason, obviously didn't hear what she wrote and the blatant disrespect she showed her parents! Probably also has not heard any of the follow up stories to this either! I mean after her FB rant, where she basically took a S all over her parents, she is probably lucky the only thing that happened was her laptop got shot! If my son EVER does something like this, I would suggest he hide for a long time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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