32 Killed in Virginia Tech Shooting

[bigred]

Yeah, uh, Fueler? That's not exactly the best idea. Its things like that that can cause real trouble. Guns are the problem here. Putting in more guns isn't going to solve anything.

 

 

you better look at violent crime stats for Texas and Australia.

 

 

everyone who is not a convicted criminal can LEGALLY carry a gun in Texas. muder per capita is lowest in the USA. why? are you going to walk into a store and stick it up at gun point knowing that anyone in that store could be carrying? I think not. tack on the fact that they have the death penalty and they USE it! fear is a powerful weapon against crime.

 

australia is the exact opposite. they outlawed hand guns to the general public and violent crime spiked to an all time high. why? someone willing to use a gun to break the law doesn't care about breaking that first law about having the very hand gun they're using.

 

 

 

now am i saying every yahoo should have a gun? nope. those who can pass the safety classes and possibly a psych screening should be allowed to have the option. I know I carry in some places. out in the woods... got bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, wild hogs... not things I want to mess with. but a nice .45 can keep some balance there. also carry in places like down town detroit, atlanta, LA, San Diego, and San Lucas... mostly for the same reasons there. and I hope I never have the need to draw that weapon and point it a human being... but if pushed to I will.

[hockeyrcks9901]

I agree with most of you here that a terrible incident could have been prevented by one person having a concealed weapon. I'm really happy that Florida has passed the law that allows us to shoot someone if they threaten us and we feel our lives are at risk. It used to be that we had to try and run first...I'm sorry but if someone is threatening to kill me, I'm not going to try and run away before I defend myself. My grandpa always carries a 38 around with him and I know that when I get older I plan on carrying a weapon when I go to troublesome places...not all the time, just when I know I'm going to an area that isn't safe. And statistics show that banning guns only increases the crime rate in an area. The criminals will have guns no matter what. If the population cannot defend themselves then crime will go up. It has been proven over and over again.

[94Camaro]

you better look at violent crime stats for Texas and Australia.

 

http://www.texasinsider.org/election_watch...6_2006_Guns.htm

Since the passage of the Concealed Handgun Law, the FBI Uniform Crime Report shows an 18% drop in handgun murders, down from 838 in 1995 to 688 in 2004. And a 32% drop in handgun murders per 100,000 population, down from 4.5 murders per 100,000 Texans in 1995 to 3.08 per 100,000 in 2004.

In 2000, on the fifth anniversary of the Concealed Handgun Law, the National Center for Policy Analysis issued a report that indicated Texans with concealed carry permits are far less likely to commit a serious crime than the average citizen. According to the report, the more than 200,000 Texans licensed to carry a concealed firearm are much more law-abiding than the average person. The report illustrated that Texans who exercise their right to carry firearms are 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for a violent offense. They are 14 times less likely to be arrested for a non-violent offense. And they are 1.4 times less likely to be arrested for murder.

[madwizard]

I hear ya, Bigred.

 

 

I was raised in a family that had guns. We were taught at an early age to respect them. Did a lot of hunting in my time and miss it, due to health reasons.. I agree with bigred. You cannot give just anyone or everyone a gun. Not everyone has respect for guns and thats the first thing about owning a gun is having respect for it and knowing what it can do. Kill..

 

One point I want to make and I'm not trying to push gun control or anything. It's just gets me all wound up when I hear people say guns kill. I have yet to see a gun kill by itself. PEOPLE KILL.. Guns are just a tool used in that process.

 

When I moved from the country to a more populated area, Ohio, and could not hunt anymore I sold all my guns. No need to keep them around if I cannot hunt and I did not want them around for frea of someone breaking into my home and taking them. They went to good respectable people who hunt and respect guns.

 

It is true though. If more honest people owned guns and were allowed to use them it's possible a lot of crime could be stopped. I know I would shoot to defend my life property, wife and family. It's my duty as head of my family.

 

This whole issue is very touchy. It's hard to make the right choice in such matters. But to save a life in self defense over a crazed fool killer ? Yes I would and give it no second thought.

[kingdingeling]

Since the passage of the Concealed Handgun Law, the FBI Uniform Crime Report shows an 18% drop in handgun murders, down from 838 in 1995 to 688 in 2004. And a 32% drop in handgun murders per 100,000 population, down from 4.5 murders per 100,000 Texans in 1995 to 3.08 per 100,000 in 2004.

 

688 murders by handguns in Texas alone? Thats a lot, only considering handguns! I bet you in Germany its lower! (Texas = about the size of Germany).

[hockeyrcks9901]

688 murders by handguns in Texas alone? Thats a lot, only considering handguns! I bet you in Germany its lower! (Texas = about the size of Germany).

 

I'm only guessing here...but I doubt that there are very many murders with any other type of gun. Maybe around 50 with shotguns and less then 25 with rifles. It is just easier to murder someone with a handgun. Which is why you only have to be 18 to own a shotgun here in Florida and 21 to own a handgun.

[Verran]

I've always like this quote from Eddie Izzard:

They say that guns don't kill people. People kill people.... but I think the gun helps.

 

I understand the logic behind allowing CCWs in Texas, and I don't dispute the crime and safety numbers that those policies have produced over the years, but I'm not sure I'm really excited about increasing the number of guns I walk within a few feet of on a daily basis. I'm sure there are plenty of people just like red that carry it to protect themselves and loved ones, but what about the others?

 

I'm hardly convinced that a two week "gun safety" class equips your typical American on how to diffuse a bank hold-up, or how to handle a campus shooting spree. Sure a well placed shot from a carrying student with a CCW could've ended the VT incident, but I think there are enough people out there who are a little too eager to play "Johnny Law" to just start arming anyone who passes a gun safety class. Tack an extensive psych exam on there (like red said), and then we might have something.

 

In the meantime, I think there's still far too many people who aren't really mature enough to put a CCW to proper use. And if you're not going to use it, why have it? After all, laws are tailored to the lowest common denominator, aren't they? Plenty of us can operate safely outside of certain laws, but there's enough idiots out there that can't to force the law on all of us.

[Agallion]

Be like the swiss and require every (male?) to be armed and trained with a semi automatic weapon, Very low crime rate there.

[Silverfox]

Be like the swiss and require every (male?) to be armed and trained with a semi automatic weapon, Very low crime rate there.

The lowest crime rate in the world is in Japan (at least it was last time I checked) and gun ownership is minimal - for a good reason.

 

http://www.guncite.com/journals/dkjgc.html Have a brief read of this based on gun ownership and crime, forgetting the suicide rates (as this is not being discussed).

 

Suggesting that gun ownership being common (a few posts earlier) and that fear prevents gun use is utterly preposterous. How about raising people properly and teaching them how to venture into the world properly instead of being complete and utter social throwbacks? Fighting fire with fire will not work when people act like complete retards on a daily basis. I know it is a select few (million) that ruin it for the rest, but gun crime cannot be treated by having more guns in possession.

 

If you feel a need to carry a gun in public, then you are living somewhere that I would not ever wish to live. If it were me, I would question whether or not I want to live in such a place and move elsewhere.

[94Camaro]

Verran, the idea isn't that every citizen with a CCW should step up in a situation, but rather the fact that someone could step up, thus being a deterrent to a situation ever occuring. Some people are naturaly capable of diffusing a situation, and given the tools to do so, they will. Thus, giving them a CCW saves the day. If someone doesn't have the guts, they're just going to sit back and let the situation go on like everyone else. They aren't going to step in a make it worse, despite being armed. It's human nature. The people who can will; the people who can't won't, no matter the tools available to them. Thus, I feel we should let the people (within reason) who want CCWs to get them.

[jack_of_java]

I first want to say that I have the utmost sympathy for the friends and family involved in this useless act of violence and murder. Unfortunately, there are those in the political arena who would like to use this episode as a means to push their political agenda forward. CNN showed a clip of Rosie on her talk-show promoting anti-gun laws, blah blah blah. Then you have other statements by various people saying that if guns were allowed, then lives would have been saved. Neither of these arguments are valid in this scenario in my opinion.

 

Let's stick to the point of this discussion. It is not important that he used a gun or that other people on campus were not armed. This guy was nuts! He was declared mentally unhealthy by a judge and ordered to a mental institute. If a gun was not available, I believe this guy would have found some way to take his anger out on other people, whether it be by a bomb, knife, or vehicle. Remember the guy that ran into the shopping mall and started stabbing people at random? This student could have been that guy. The facts should not be that he used a gun to do the crime, but that he was sick and there were warning signs that he needed help beforehand. One of his teachers even reported about his problems and taught him separately from the regular class due to it. The university overlooked the teacher's and students' complaints and looked at the dollar signs associated with this guy going to school there. Who is to blame for this then? It is an unfortunate event that happened, but I believe it could have been prevented had the proper steps been taken.

 

As far as gun control - well, that is a rant I will save for another day. Although I am a firm believer in the right to bare arms.

 

Finally, it disgusts me how the media has portrayed this event yet again (like so many other humbling events). Taking pictures of injured and dead people being carried away? Is this news or is it attention getting? Filming the candlelit vigil to mourn the injured and dead? How pathetic. Let those that are grieving for the loved and lost have some peace away from international prodding. I wish those broadcasting companies would realize that reporting the news is one thing, but exploiting it for ratings is another.

Edited April 19, 2007 by jack_of_java

[bigred]

Be like the swiss and require every (male?) to be armed and trained with a semi automatic weapon, Very low crime rate there.

 

 

every qualified and SANE one. there are serious restrictions there.

 

 

however if falls back to the same concept as Texas. if the bad guys don't know who is carrying and capable of blowing thier brains out, then they're less likely to even try it. simply putting that thought in thier heads is a very powerful and effective tool.

 

 

as far as the number of murders in Texas vs Germany.... number of square miles means nothing when the population (including legal citizens, legal aliens and illegal aliens) is MUCH higher.

 

 

also I like the statement about a gun being a TOOL. Same goes for a knife. out in the woods it's an H&K Mk. 23 and SOG S.E.A.L. knife as my standard TOOLS (yes I know, but someone else did thier homework to ensure these tools will hold up to my use / abuse and then some). Semi auto M4 carbine in the truck is another TOOL. in the city it's an H&K USP .45 compact or standard and a Smith and Wesson S.W.A.T. folding knife carried when needed and legal. fortunately I've only had to fire the M4 at living things... but that was kinda the point of taking it white tail and hog hunting in the first place.