Diablo 3

[Fogel]

Btw - I am not defending DRM. I don't like it either, but as someone said... it is getting really hard to find games without it. Steam was heavily criticized when it first came out. Now it is hard for most people to even think of Steam as DRM. I find it funny that many people that are very vocal against DRM will look to get most of their games through Steam or will register store bought games in Steam. Not to mention Steam is pretty much online only as you still have to log into the stupid client just to play your games.

 

 

Steam is probably one of the worst forms of DRM and yet is the most successful. It literally changed the gaming industry on its own by ushering in DRM that never would have succeeded before.

[Waco]

No, Diablo was based more on multi-player and team-play than being by yourself. I've played it since the beginning and playing online is the best.

The first Diablo was a single player game with crappy LAN support.

 

Diablo II was a single player game with pretty good LAN support and a pretty good online community.

 

Diablo III was supposed to be a single player game with all the online qualities of Diablo II.

 

Steam

I meant successful in that it actually kept the game from being cracked. Steam is certainly the most palatable of the available DRM implementations.

 

I never played Diablo online. I just really don't like playing with other people most of the time. I get frustrated at the way they play or I'm not very good and don't feel as though I'm contributing. So I don't really play online.

Same here. I played Diablo and Diablo II on LAN like crazy with my friends but probably played online once...

[Fogel]

Steam is certainly the most palatable of the available DRM implementations.

 

What exactly is palatable about Steam's implementation of DRM?

 

Steam's implementation of DRM includes:

1. Forces setting up an account where all activity is tracked
   
2. Forces online activation
   
3. Pretty much online only
   
4. Includes bloatware (e.g. gamespy comrade)
   
5. Forces Game Launcher software
   
6. Has its own rules that gaming publishers must follow to provide updates to its games
   
7. Game Launcher is plastered with ads
   
8. Forces install location
   

 

It pretty much has just about every form of DRM outside of Install Limits. If you are ok with Steam you should be ok with most forms of DRM. Simply by supporting Steam you told the game industry you are ok with everything Steam limits you to. We are here having this discussion because of Steam's continued success.

 

So with ALL forms of DRM that Steam implements and the side effects it has, I seriously wonder how you can label Steam palatable and Diablo III disgusting when the DRM implemented in BattleNet/Diablo III is modeled after Steam.

 

I meant successful in that it actually kept the game from being cracked.

 

I can't speak of first hand experience with it but from what I've researched the hack version of SC2 is pathetic at best. No multiplayer and limited single player. If a hack cannot simulate the game then it is a failure and the game publisher wins

Edited August 29, 2011 by Fogel

[dr_bowtie]

What exactly is palatable about Steam's implementation of DRM?

 

Steam's implementation of DRM includes:

1. Forces setting up an account where all activity is tracked
   
2. Forces online activation
   
3. Pretty much online only
   
4. Includes bloatware (e.g. gamespy comrade)
   
5. Forces Game Launcher software
   
6. Has its own rules that gaming publishers must follow to provide updates to its games
   
7. Game Launcher is plastered with ads
   
8. Forces install location
   

 

It pretty much has just about every form of DRM outside of Install Limits. If you are ok with Steam you should be ok with most forms of DRM. Simply by supporting Steam you told the game industry you are ok with everything Steam limits you to. We are here having this discussion because of Steam's continued success.

 

So with ALL forms of DRM that Steam implements and the side effects it has, I seriously wonder how you can label Steam palatable and Diablo III disgusting when the DRM implemented in BattleNet/Diablo III is modeled after Steam.

 

 

 

I can't speak of first hand experience with it but from what I've researched the hack version of SC2 is pathetic at best. No multiplayer and limited single player. If a hack cannot simulate the game then it is a failure and the game publisher wins

 

1)It's no different than any other cloud based gaming program....you have many others like Green Man Gaming, Impulse and a few others. Even Wal-Mart is going to be jumping into the cloud based gaming programs...

 

2) their activation is no different really than the game itself and most of the games that need activation do so the same exact way they would on a stand alone instal

 

3) Not so true....you can play steam games offline.....I do it all the time. easiest way to to make sure all the games are installed and updated. then just unplug the NIC cable...you get the prompt to play offline. almost all games play offline but the ones that are online MP only.....

 

4)no different than the games itself that force you to install this stuff....its not really a Steam thing out of the 40-50 games I own maybe 2 of them have this stuff? maybe

 

5)I'm not sure what you mean by this....? Unless you mean that Steam must be running to launch the games then that is true but for people like me thats no issue I like the fact that Steam has all my games grouped and in one place but even saying that its no different than XFire or Windows 7....7 does the same thing via the Games tab in the Start Menu

 

6) True but this maintains a certain bit of quality to ensure End User gameplay is the best it can be....how many times have you gotten a game that was riddled with bugs and the patches didnt fix anything....I can name a few...With Steam this happens far less often. Most of the time there might be a few bugs at launch (if ever) but the 1st round of patches totally fixes the issues

 

7)True, but they are a game seller....the adds are the purpose of selling games...those are the only ads I see

 

8) You can install Steam to just about any location. I have Steam installed to my Back-up drive on the D:/ Partition that way I never have to re-download the games...on a fresh install I just re-install Steam and then change the file path location in the registry....simple fix....can be easily done via MSCONFIG....

 

I consider Steam the easiest game program around. I just wish it was the Universal and there wasnt so many others as i dont like having so many running launchers....thats the issue for me thats why I dont have Impulse installed and I am probably removing Green Man Gaming too....

 

 

I just don't/won't like the always connected DRM method.....I play games at time I have no connection and I might wish to play certain games and I will be forced not to.....someday when internet is free and we always have a connection then it wont be an issue. But for me when I am at my shop I dont have net and I might want to play.

 

But I agree...Steams great success has paved the way for some of this....

[Fogel]

Exactly my point Bowtie - it is so industry standard now you cannot get away from it.

 

If someone can support Steam there is no valid reason not to support Battle.net or Origin or whatever ...especially since those systems are less intrusive than Steam is.

 

 

As far as your Steam specific corrections go. I meant you cannot divide up your games in multiple locations if you so desire - so 1 game on C:\, another on D:\. For example, you may want some games on your SSD but the less important games on your normal HDD. If there is a way around that I sure didn't figure it out. Once I get my computer built this will be an option I will want.

 

Not once has offline mode worked for me. I know some people say they've gotten it to work so I know its possible but I also know its not configured by default to work that way which is why I said "pretty much online only". I would hardly call Steam the easiest program around. It is pretty meh. I use it for deals on games I wouldn't buy unless they were stupid cheap. I sure as hell don't buy games that I consider important on Steam unless there is just an outstanding deal I cannot pass on.

 

Even if Steam supports offline mode the gaming industry considers it Online DRM. That's all the suits know and care about,.. and they see people like you and me supporting it. That's my whole point. My point was not whether or not I can get it to work because I am sure I can if I dink around with it enough and ask people like you how you set it up. It's the fact how Steam is perceived by the industry and how it has changed the industry as a whole. Most of these DRM models are based off of Steam, and I don't see how someone can support Steam but not the others when Steam pretty much grandfathered them all in.

[iskout]

Basically, I will not be buying Diablo 3, no matter how huge a fan I am of Diablo 2.

 

 

Period.

[MandoPatriot]

The first Diablo was a single player game with crappy LAN support.

 

Diablo II was a single player game with pretty good LAN support and a pretty good online community.

 

Diablo III was supposed to be a single player game with all the online qualities of Diablo II.

 

Same here. I played Diablo and Diablo II on LAN like crazy with my friends but probably played online once...

 

The first Diablo was online as well. I play single player games, but if I can go online and play the campaign with other players I do that.

 

*shrugs* Guess you guys are the minority who like to only play single player games. Heaven forbid you actually have to play with random people once in a while.

[Waco]

Not once has offline mode worked for me. I know some people say they've gotten it to work so I know its possible but I also know its not configured by default to work that way which is why I said "pretty much online only".

If you've never gotten it to work you must not have tried in years. It is configured by default to use offline mode whenever your connection is down.

 

 

I'm not saying Steam is all that great - but it is certainly the easiest to deal with, easiest to buy through, and it is the least intrusive of the other options (Origin? HA! GFWL? HA!). The one real thing Steam has that others don't is consumer loyalty. EA, Activision, etc have given us zero reason to trust them with anything whereas Valve has built up a huge amount of trust.

 

The first Diablo was online as well. I play single player games, but if I can go online and play the campaign with other players I do that.

 

*shrugs* Guess you guys are the minority who like to only play single player games. Heaven forbid you actually have to play with random people once in a while.

I never said I ONLY like to play single player games...but Diablo is a game I prefer to play either alone or with my friends.

 

I wouldn't care at all if they focused the game to be for online multiplayer but allowed offline play / LAN. This "always online" BS is just that.

 

 

 

Anyway - it's clear you don't care that you can't play your games without a consistent, fast, internet connection. Have fun playing Diablo III single player with a spotty connection.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Waco

[greengiant912]

I don't know how my point couldn't be clearer.

 

 

Developers spend millions of dollars on developing a game, and naturally with any business product there has to be a ROI (Return on Investment), they have to make money that is why they are in business. With that said, PC gaming is a very small minority these days compared to the major consoles. The general consumer who plays video games could care less about PC gaming. Developers don't want to make the investment on PC gaming anymore, add that with the piracy issue and the PC is a very unattractive platform from a business sense. It all comes down to dollars and cents. For Blizzard to keep making PC games, they need to have some sort of protection against people steeling their product, and they need to encourage new players to buy the game.

 

Unlike other company's that use DRM Blizzard makes it more attractive by adding features that players actually want for the online platforms.

 

 

We had this same freaking discussion when Starcraft II was noted for being online only (Blizzard later offered an offline mode), If your not going to buy the game that is your issue and power to you. I just don't see why we need to keep discussing this issue when we all already know how we feel about this... There is nothing you can do about it anyways...

[ClayMeow]

If you've never gotten it to work you must not have tried in years. It is configured by default to use offline mode whenever your connection is down.

Offline mode has always worked for me.

 

If you enable Steam Guard, I assume you'd probably have to authorize that particular computer first, but Steam Guard is optional so you'd only have your self to blame and then tried connecting offline first without authorizing said computer.

 

 

 

[InCrYsIs]

Basically, I will not be buying Diablo 3, no matter how huge a fan I am of Diablo 2.

 

 

Period.

 

You will buy it. Don't kid yourself. I can whine and moan over it too but in the end I am going to buy it. Same thing with BF3 and all the crap they are spewing. I will end up playing that too with its crappy origin and browser based server search.

[Waco]

There is nothing you can do about it anyways...

Sure there is. You can not buy the game.

 

Buying it just reinforces the fact that you're willing to be inconvenienced by DRM even though DRM clearly doesn't stop piracy. What's the point??? You act like there's no piracy on consoles as well...

 

 

You will buy it. Don't kid yourself. I can whine and moan over it too but in the end I am going to buy it. Same thing with BF3 and all the crap they are spewing. I will end up playing that too with its crappy origin and browser based server search.

Speak for yourself.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Waco