Touted "Karajan audio" is the worst I've heard in 3 years

[red930]

Its in the atx 1.3 spec, is it not?

Yes, the -5v line is in the OLD spec. The problem is that MSI didn't make the buyer aware of this stipulation until they opened the manual. Additionally, have you found a high quality PSU that delivers the -5V rail recently? There are exactly six listed on newegg and not one is worthy of building a rig around. The 400W Zalman has a wopping 1.5w on the -5V rail. The included SB hardware was great in concept but terrible in execution.

[NEOAethyr]

I've been thinking about this a little, and since it does apperently have a use on some board still, the -5v.

 

Could'nt you just take a +5v lead and use it for -5v?

 

+5v

-Ground

 

To:

 

+Ground

-5v

 

?

I would think you could, should'nt be amp related because it seems computer stuff handles high amps unlike game controllers and such.

 

Anyone know for sure?

[red930]

I've been thinking about this a little, and since it does apperently have a use on some board still, the -5v.

 

Could'nt you just take a +5v lead and use it for -5v?

 

+5v

-Ground

 

To:

 

+Ground

-5v

 

?

I would think you could, should'nt be amp related because it seems computer stuff handles high amps unlike game controllers and such.

 

Anyone know for sure?

The components are built into the motherboard. Not sure you would want to start re-engineering a brand new mobo. Your method would deliver 5v to the system ground causing the PSU to clamp down. Not gonna work.

[ISS]

Onboard sound quality is not going to beat sound cards like Audigy (some sound cards are also just codecs on a circuit board). Afterall, Karajan is simply another name for the Realtek ALC850 codec. Realtek codecs are never known to produce high quality audio. No doubt anandtech did say its pretty decent but do you think those reviewers are audiophiles?

[red930]

Onboard sound quality is not going to beat sound cards like Audigy (some sound cards are also just codecs on a circuit board). Afterall, Karajan is simply another name for the Realtek ALC850 codec. Realtek codecs are never known to produce high quality audio. No doubt anandtech did say its pretty decent but do you think those reviewers are audiophiles?

Karajan is the name of the daughter card configuration that moves the audio processor off of the motherboard. This is done to reduce or eliminate the circuit noise inherent in a modern motherboard.

 

An audiophile would never accept onboard sound so it's a moot point.

 

Onboard sound is cheap enough to include on the motherboard and good enough for many users that can save the money spent on an add-in sound card.

[Smoken Joe]

Karajan is the name of the daughter card configuration that moves the audio processor off of the motherboard. This is done to reduce or eliminate the circuit noise inherent in a modern motherboard.

 

An audiophile would never accept onboard sound so it's a moot point.

 

Onboard sound is cheap enough to include on the motherboard and good enough for many users that can save the money spent on an add-in sound card.

 

Dont know how many MB's did a good job of it but there were some very very good implementations of soundstorm. Did your ever see that one that used an old fassoned vacume tube for amplification?

 

The soundstorm was more than good enough for my klipsch ultra system. No help for that though. It is on to a card. Any specific recomendations?

[dippyskoodlez]

Yes, the -5v line is in the OLD spec. The problem is that MSI didn't make the buyer aware of this stipulation until they opened the manual. Additionally, have you found a high quality PSU that delivers the -5V rail recently? There are exactly six listed on newegg and not one is worthy of building a rig around. The 400W Zalman has a wopping 1.5w on the -5V rail. The included SB hardware was great in concept but terrible in execution.

 

The antec Im running has the -5v.

 

the MSI is an atx 1.3 board is it not?

 

I haven't seen a PSU that DOESN'T have it. I think even my friends OCZ has it. its just a NC pin on the 24 pin connector, but the OCZ's I believe have the -5v, for use with a 20 pin mobo.

[drewski]

The antec Im running has the -5v.

 

the MSI is an atx 1.3 board is it not?

 

I haven't seen a PSU that DOESN'T have it. I think even my friends OCZ has it. its just a NC pin on the 24 pin connector, but the OCZ's I believe have the -5v, for use with a 20 pin mobo.

 

OCZ has it (can't remember if it's neede for their DDR Booster), PC P&C has it, many, many, many other do not.

 

atx 2.x spec doesn't have it required, and that is what many PSU manfacturers looked at and decided to drop the -5v. lot's of p/o'd MSI buyers who can't use their onboard sound.

[drewski]

The antec Im running has the -5v.

 

the MSI is an atx 1.3 board is it not?

 

I haven't seen a PSU that DOESN'T have it. I think even my friends OCZ has it. its just a NC pin on the 24 pin connector, but the OCZ's I believe have the -5v, for use with a 20 pin mobo.

 

Enermax's don't have it, Sea Sonic don't. OCZ's definitely have, since i think you need it for their DDR Booster?

 

I guess the point is it's not part of the ATX 2.x spec, so PSU manufacturers that are "fully compliant" may have dropped the -5V rail and since this wasn't well called out by MSI there are many p/o'd buyers who can't use the onboard sound.

[red930]

The antec Im running has the -5v.

 

the MSI is an atx 1.3 board is it not?

 

I haven't seen a PSU that DOESN'T have it. I think even my friends OCZ has it. its just a NC pin on the 24 pin connector, but the OCZ's I believe have the -5v, for use with a 20 pin mobo.

Your Antec is the old spec. That's why you have it.

 

Remember, there are many vendors simply rewiring ATX 12V 1.3 PSUs with a 24pin ATX connector and calling them ATX 12V 2.X compliant.

 

The NC pin is left blank since the PSU doesn't provide a -5V rail. Take a look at the PSU listings on newegg since they have a fairly good search function. There are lots of low power PSUs with the -5V rail. As you get into the higher power units there are many less models to choose from and most aren't "name brands" that have a good reputation.

 

OCZ seems to provide the -5V rail across their product line. Antec has dropped it with the Neopower and the new TRUEPOWERII line.

[red930]

the MSI is an atx 1.3 board is it not?

If you're refering to the ATX connector on the mobo it's a 24pin. Any motherboard with PCIe will require a 24pin ATX to get the extra power used by the PCIe video cards.

 

I my experience helping a buddy get his MSI running, you need at least a 450W PSU once you load up all the goodies. His 20pin Enermax 365 was not up to the job. When he tried an Antec TrueBlue 480 20pin it wouldn't boot with two cards in SLI mode.

 

I let him borrow a Blue Storm until his new Neopower arrived.

[dippyskoodlez]

If you're refering to the ATX connector on the mobo it's a 24pin. Any motherboard with PCIe will require a 24pin ATX to get the extra power used by the PCIe video cards.

 

I my experience helping a buddy get his MSI running, you need at least a 450W PSU once you load up all the goodies. His 20pin Enermax 365 was not up to the job. When he tried an Antec TrueBlue 480 20pin it wouldn't boot with two cards in SLI mode.

 

I let him borrow a Blue Storm until his new Neopower arrived.

 

Im actually running my antec sl350 in 20pin ATM... it does have its problems(once windows is installed, not a single thing, however), but I can't seem to max this PSU out.. (2400mhz right now)with the 24pin mod, however, my 5v jumper works..

 

I never imagined updating a PSU spec would be so confused over PC manufacturers -_-