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Angry_Games

And so it begins again, this time with Intel's new Core2Duo

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flashed to an internal bios and now busting up 3429Mhz on the 533

See, the 975x/g is doing 4 mhz more than my P5WDH already.. don't buy asus kids!

 

What a great clock to bench at! :)

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It will be interesting to see the performance with actual games/apps. Looking at the 3dMark05/06 scores there doesn't seem to be much of a performance increase with the Core2Duo compared to what we are using now as long as the GPU is the bottleneck.
Which it most likely will be until the end of time... but if you do other things the CPU gets important.

 

Me?

 

I could get by with a P4, lol.

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the cpu is strong enough though that now it is not a question of if the cpu or the gpu is bottlenecked, now with the C2D (especially overclocked!) the cpu is DEFINITELY not the bottleneck (at least so far at 1280x1024 resolution or lower. I'll be testing the 1600x1200 bits as soon as I can)

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Can you clear up some mystery for us as far as Super Pi goes... like 1M and 32M runs...

 

Havent seen any runs yet but keep hearing those rumors...you know as compared to the X2 you based this against....Thanks...

 

What like how fast it is? I've done a 13.610 second 1M at 3.8, if thats what you're looking for. At 3.65 I'm hitting 14 even (literally, 14.000).

 

Add around 3 seconds on this if you run an instance on each core.

 

But I'm with Travis, it's cool to see and all but pretty meaningless for the most part. Granted it's a good way to see quick results when I change a setting or something, which is what I'm mostly using it for.

 

Not completely sure how much speeding up the ram helps out on this, again i've been too busy. Hopefully I'll get a free chance on Tuesday to play after the career fair.

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I've only just seen this thread, I don't mind you using me as an example, be my guest.. If I were the sort of person who would take offence, you would not see me around that's for sure...

 

We have rights to opinions, and concepts from 2 different standpoints (granted my expectations are not the realistic ones based upon the majority userbase) it's really as simple as that. The difference is, here, you have a wider audience to support, where I only talk for myself and a few of my associates. Plus it's far easier to get pissed when you pay for your own hardware. I stated my opinions and you developed them in the right way to explain to the masses here how the board should be viewed, there's nothing I see wrong with that.

 

I will be more careful with my opinions here in the furure. To be honest at the time, the only user dissapointments I had seen were indeed of the latter overclockers, who want to squeeze every ounce of performance from the CPU.

 

You see when DFI release a product, even if it is an Infinity, expectations are so damn high, even the last 25% of overclockers you mention want that board to be the best, it's foolish yes, but it's what happens. There have also been times when Infinity and Lanparty differences were purely cosmetic.

 

I'll always come here, whether I'm appreciated or not, and believe it or not Happy Games we have something in common, we are both used to being loathed in one way or another, but does it stop us? No..

 

In regards to that post by me and the sentiments I echoed, the comments were made only because you stated that 'bandwidth was down'. You see, as you well know, influence is created worldwide, based on the most popular sentiment of the time, even if it escalates from a tight circle, which in reality is the way things happen, it's seldom correct, but that's what happens.

 

Sorry if I was out of line, I have no problems or ego bruises, a man should have enough humility to appologise. I have never considered myself superior in knowledge to anyone else, credit where it's due. I know you do appreciate having me here (otherwise I'd have been sacked), as my helpfulness can sometimes outweigh my baggage. No-one is ever right 100% of the time..

 

If you don't mind me saying so, you were not impressed with our benchmarks of Conroe when you did not have one yourself (I did have a DB entry at the time) and was made to feel that I was not trusted enough to give the thumbs up of it's performance. There is a thread where you replied quite strongly, not directly to me, but the statements where there (I know you were pissed at Intel for not providing you with a sample), but now that you have one you too are impressed at it's power, even at 1280X1024 EVEN in benchmarks.

 

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60691

 

My time restraints are becoming greater anyway, as I have the imminent launch of my own forum coming. Which means there'll be less of my verbal mistakes here for you to worry about. :P

 

There will always be links between us, as this place is valuable to send people for DFI advice.

 

 

I want this to end on a good note HG, no hard feelings here..

 

regards

Raja

 

 

Edit I have a Database entry (work in progress 5 hours of orthos done so far..), coming for the more xtreme users here to use for 24/7(even if we are only 25%), it should keep people with E6600's and E6700's with air cooling quite happy :)

 

 

dfistreetyv3.th.jpg

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this is exactly why the %$#@$ we gave those two losers the money to buy the Conroe cpu's

 

nuff said.

 

keep up the good work, i might be swayed after all ;P

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Great read Happy. Good to see that the Core 2's are a good buy for the regular folks that just can't stand/afford to spend $1,000+ on a chip when they can get one for less than half that and get better performance out of it.

 

*starts saving for a new compuer*

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Good to see that the Core 2's are a good buy for the regular folks that just can't stand/afford to spend $1,000+ on a chip when they can get one for less than half that and get better performance out of it.

 

You should see how the X6800 overclocks :eek:

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glad to see where you understand where I am coming from. I appreciate that.

 

I'll take a moment to help explain a little bit about something you said, and it is for everyone else that reads it also, as it is important to understand.

 

You see when DFI release a product, even if it is an Infinity, expectations are so damn high, even the last 25% of overclockers you mention want that board to be the best, it's foolish yes, but it's what happens.

 

There was a great time, back in teh NF2 days, when no one would take a chance on the Infinity at first, because they wanted a LanParty, but couldn't afford it, and they didn't realize (and some still refused for a while to believe after they were assured by me personally) that the Infinity NF2 and Infinity 865 and Infinity 875 boards were exact duplicates of the Lanparty boards, only with different colors, and maybe only a single LAN port, etc.

 

Minor differences in certain physical features, but ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in where it really mattered...the design, traces, circuits, and most especially the BIOS.

 

All of those "meat" bits were exactly like the LanParty.

 

All at once the floodgates broke and people were buying the LanParty when they could afford it, and Infinities when they couldn't, and the reality was...they were EXACTLY like the Lanparty boards in every important respect: overclocking features/ability.

 

 

 

 

Then around the NF3 time, the Infinity dropped out and we went with LanParty "UT" which meant...the Lanparty board (no differences at all, it was a true-to-life, honest-to-God Lanparty board), but without the carry strap, Front-X....without the ACCESSORIES.

 

No need for an Infinity board if you can get a Lanparty board itself and you don't need the carry strap, wire sleeving, Front-X, etc...right?

 

 

Then around NF4, someone decided it would be good to bring back the Infinity line (since Rgone and I complained loudly and bitterly that we were really needing to see the Infinity make an appearance to appease the masses that couldn't afford the Lanparty but still wanted the overclocking experience).

 

Except this time, it wasn't an exact copy of the Lanparty board.

 

It was a rather vanilla board, and it was never intended to be the Lanparty Jr.

 

At all.

 

It was given overclocking features, and all of the Infinity boards still overclock at least as well as any other mfg's best overclocking board, but the reality is, is that it is NOT the same kind of Infinity as we had in the NF2 days.

 

It wasn't a LanParty board with red (or blue, or green, or any but the LP's black) pcb, the same traces and circuits as the LanParty board, nothing like it.

 

People at first were really hyped about the Infinity, until they realized they were NOT the same kind of Infinity boards as the NF2's were to the Lanparty NF2.

 

This sorta crushed sales, even with a few of us overclocking them rather well if I do say so myself (ask Thunda and a few others...they'll tell you the boards were just fine, they just weren't quite Lanparties, but they put up some stout clocks with the things).

 

From that point up until the Infinity 975X/G arrived, I had to try and relate to users that though the Infinity was no longer the LanParty Jr, it was a great board. I threw a few out to the users/mods here to let them show everyone that I was telling the truth, and they did their part.

 

Most of us that have been into DFI for a good while understood this, but quite a few still expect the Infinity to be every bit as good as the LanParty, when they don't realize the boards are not engineered by Oskar Wu, and they aren't made to overclock like the LP board is, the board is a completely different board from the types that have made DFI famous.

 

There's another related aspect of all of this also, and that is that because DFI builds a board, it is supposed to be the supreme overclocker.

 

Even the non-Lanparty boards.

 

That's what a lot of people hold in their heads when they see something that says "DFI". Regardless of whether it says Lanparty, Infinity, CA-64, AD77...doesn't matter...only thing that matters is that it is made by DFI so it MUST be a great overclocker.

 

 

Now, I'm not saying you are wrong for what you are expecting. I'm just telling it to you like it really is, and that is that the Infinity is a great board (and you already know this) for what it is, but it isn't, and never was intended to be a Lanparty.

 

I'm at 6 hours @ 3429Mhz with it on the 533 divider finally. Rgone keeps getting more angry at me because I'm inching quickly up to his 3600Mhz area where he's fooling with.

 

ie: I'm plugging numbers into the bios (and I got to say thanks for your little mini-oc guide as I read it thoroughly and incorporated that as well as what I've talked to Rgone about and it's brought me this far this quickly), and coming up a winner almost everytime.

 

I'd say for an 829Mhz overclock right out of the box without really a whole lot of fooling (and 1 SSDB entry and 2 OC DB entries to show for it, working on the 3rd right now), that it's a pretty damn good board so far.

 

And I got none of those annoying or crazy little problems that any veteran overclocker knows about...BSOD here or there, some drive not detecting, no video after a certain FSB, no corruption of software, etc.

 

Worst I've had is the thing just lock hard after some dual-priming on a setting it didn't like.

 

Reset button, go into bios, fiddle a bit, boot into windows, run Orthos (dual-prime), rinse and repeat.

 

 

 

At the same time, I truly (and so does Rgone) understand your point of view. I've been the l337 hardcore clocker who wanted every last drop of blood a cpu could give me. And like you, I wasn't running to every forum on the planet to show how l337 I was, I just did it for myself and wanted to help others achieve happiness.

 

As you can sense, over time I've lost this drive to be in the top 3%, and happily settle for the top 10% to 15% for water & air (I don't even bother with exotic cooling at all).

 

But I do remember quite well the drive I had when I wanted to have the best.

 

DFI recognizes this drive.

 

They have a pill for it and it is called the LanParty motherboard.

 

 

That's about the only thing that really needs to be said.

 

And I would say to you, man I truly appreciate the help you've given forum members here (and at XS forums...Rgone talks very highly of you on the phone, and I reciprocate), as well as that bit on the mini-oc guide for the 975X/G.

 

 

But what you want is the Lanparty 975X/E that is coming.

 

Like me and Rgone, you want to play with whatever is out there right now, but also like me and Rgone, you know that the Infinity is never going to be the Lanparty.

 

 

Hey, I know how frustrating it is too. I used to think when I recieved a new Infinity NF4, "ah jeez...another dust collector until someone actually buys one and can't get it to boot...".

 

Because it KNEW it couldn't do 300FSB like the Lanparty board did (or was supposed to if a new one was coming).

 

For a long time I couldn't bridge the gap between "damn, this Infinity only allows me 289FSB on a couple of TCCD sticks, and 262FSB on a couple of 1GB UCCC sticks"

 

and

 

"holy smacks I benched this LanParty with a 2GB kit @ 284!" (those awesome Ballistix 2GB kits....before they all died) or "wow, 315x9...Centon 2x512MB TCCD kits..." (heh, need I say anymore?)

 

But I did, and I know that everyone that reads this is going to understand the real frustration that you can buy a board that will do 3000Mhz easy on any Conroe you throw at it, and almost any memory you can throw at it, and is looking like it can at least consistently hit 3200 and 3400Mhz, but it isn't hitting those 4Ghz and 4.5Ghz clocks that were all the hype a month ago.

 

 

See, that is the real problem as far as I can see it, and I tend to think Rgone would agree.

 

 

 

Intel blows through town dropping Engineering Sample bombs all over good little hype-nerds, and a lot of time dropping killer Engineering Sample BadAxe 975 boards at the same time, knowing those bombs would explode at 3.7 to 4.9Ghz.

 

 

Holy smackeronis, we got ourselves a winner! It's Intel's hype machine by a mile!

 

Because now everyone (myself included!) is scratching nervously waiting for our own crazy monster 4Ghz overclock....

 

But see, it really never happens that way.

 

Too much hype, and now everyone thinks that no matter what board they have, be it Asus, Abit, Giga, DFI, Foxconn, etc, they think they should be getting these 4Ghz clocks,

 

Hey, I read it on the internet, where's my share?

 

I'm kinda disappointed that I won't be seeing 4Ghz without some phase cooling (something else that is sometimes absent from these great hype-fests that Intel and those to do Intel's bidding...that would be YOU, the reviewer or forum guy who was either duped or just sold yourself out for some great engineering sample hardware for free so you could brag).

 

 

But in the scope of it all, I see the big picture, and I see what Intel has done.

 

I'm a bit upset about it, but at the same time, how can you not eat a triple-thick cheese pizza that tastes this good even though you are completely lactose intolerant?

 

Right?

 

130k in Aquamark? 140fps with a single card in Half Life 2? scoring almost the same on a single card as a dual-core AMD64 Opteron and dual Nvidia 7900 gpu's?

 

 

Super Pi in 8-14 seconds? (most of us would have KILLED for a 24s Super Pi if I remember correctly)

 

 

So yeah, the cpu really is that good, but I think a lot of peopel are a little unrealistic in their overclocking expectations, especially this early in the cycle of not only processor yields during mfg, but also chipset maturities.

 

 

This is a whole new ballgame everyone. The Core2Duo is NOT anything like teh Pentium4 at all other than the Intel brand, and their reliance on a separate Memory Controller Hub.

 

And hell, they've made a processor that is so strong, that it can whip the pants off any competition at a lot less memory bandwidth, so they don't even have to worry about some silly integrated memory controller anymore ;)

 

 

Ok AG, so your point is?

 

I guess my point is...is that the Infinity board...no board that does not have a Lanparty name attached to it, is going to be the overclocker that the Lanparty is that everyone expects.

 

I'm not upset that someone is disappointed that their Infinity can't overclock to what they think it should (or what any other board should).

 

I'm just hoping to clarify that the board is not a Lanparty, and never will be, and was never designed and marketed to be any substitute whatsoever.

 

It's considered a "vanilla" board.

 

However

 

It overclocks as well as any other "premium" boards out there using the EXACT same chipset revision. The 975X/G is a C0 stepping chipset.

 

Every board running this C0 stepping chipset is going to be like the Infinity from DFI, but the DFI will still usually clock better. As I ranted in my original post, I keep hearing how this board or that board is so great, but I don't see anything that is really showing me any kind of proof that it REALLY is a better board.

 

I see guys running a super pi and I'm supposed to worry that their 3.82Ghz E6600 overclock is better than anything the Infinity can do (as of yet, I've not reached a limit on mine).

 

And that's one guy here or one guy there, and usually two different brand/class of boards.

 

 

Who's to say that their cpu's aren't really good ones, and it doesn't really matter all that much what board they are on?

 

 

If it were 25 guys all doing 3.75Ghz+ on a single board like the Asus P5B's and they were all what we'd consider stable (and not just a super pi run and their word that it plays BF2 "for liek 3 hours n stuff"), then I'd say "yeah, you are right, the DFI Infnity should be getting those clocks, and I'm frustrated that it isn't".

 

But see, I'd only say this after oh...3-6 month point from the board's release.

 

Because any board, Asus, Giga, MSI, DFI, they have no idea what configurations are going to go with their boards.

 

They can't possibly test every situation that 10,000+ customers can test just by being customers and buying DFI boards.

 

Ya find bugs, you see oc limits, all that jazz, and then you try to patch it up with some bios fixes. Got to fix the bugs first, jack up the oc ability second (even on a non-LP board!).

 

Though the 975X/G has been out for about 2 months, access to C2D retail cpu's was kinda tough to find at first.

 

Now more users are getting these cpu's, and more voices are being heard as to what is working and what isn't working. Bioses are being worked on. A little slow for my tastes, but you know anything done at corporate level always takes longer than necessary. Doesn't matter which side of the ocean you are on lol. Management is still management, and engineers are still engineers (it's sorta like lions and gazelles in nature...the lions on eat the ones needed to stay alive and continue their line, and the gazelles are replaced quickly enough that you never see a drop in the pack size heh).

 

 

ok, but enough about that. (you always ask the right questions or raise the right issues raju...I hope you stick around a good long time as you make me want to write forever hahaha)

 

 

 

I'll always come here, whether I'm appreciated or not, and believe it or not Happy Games we have something in common, we are both used to being loathed in one way or another, but does it stop us? No..

 

heh, you are always VERY MUCH welcome here. I hate that I seem to use your words as an example all the time (especially because it sounds like I'm dogging you when I'm not intending to do that at all), but I feel like it is a good thing as it gives readers a bit of depth to what's being discussed.

 

In regards to that post by me and the sentiments I echoed, the comments were made only because you stated that bandwidth was down. You see, as you well know, influence is created worlwide based on the most popular sentiment of the time, it's seldom correct, but that's what happens.

 

truth is, 939/DDR is all played out. AM2 is a minor upgrade in performance, but major upgrade in price (not only do you have to get a new board and cpu, now you have to get DDR2, all new memory...).

 

Conroe is a major upgrade in money (new cpu/DDR2 RAM/board), but it is also a major upgrade in performance. A lot of that 'disposable income' that Americans are famous for...was spent on that old 939/DDR1 killer setup.

 

I know a lot of the readers that pitched in WANT a conroe setup, but they can't or won't at the moment because...another $500-$1000 for the platform is just not in their budget.

 

I'd like to think it is because we are so good at support that we fixed so many problems that hardly anyone needs to come here anymore lol...but hey, I am the king of realistic.

 

People don't have the money to burn combined with the knowledge that this is first-gen C2D + C2D motherboards.

 

If a first-gen C2D 2400Mhz cpu will clock to 3Ghz easy and 3.4Ghz with some work on these first-gen chipsets, then who's to say we won't have second and third-gen C2D's hitting 3.6Ghz easy and 4.2Ghz with some work (and 5Ghz with some raju voodoo type effort lol) and second/third-gen chipsets?

 

Or like some guy I yelled at the other day running around telling potential video card buyers to not buy anything, wait until directx10!!! (sheesh).

 

You wait as long as you can, but eventually you got to throw in the towel and hit that Buy Now button because you can't stand it. Even though your 2.9Ghz dual-core Opteron and 7900 SLI setup isn't really getting any slower, watching jerks like Angry_Games pull off crazy benchmark numbers and go on and on about how easy it was makes your games and programs FEEL like they are slowing down...your old dc opty at almost 3ghz is starting to drag you down man, it's just too slow...that idiot AG even had the nerve to rip a full dvd and it only took about 38 minutes while my dc opty just ripped that same dvd and it took by God almost 5 hours.

 

For most readers, that time is not right now. Some are on the fence, and it's my job to get them to jump on over and join the BBQ and beer, but at the same time it's my personal job to not lie to them in any way (like giving them tofu chicken bbq and Odoule's no-alcohol beer...and by the way all those chicks? cross-dressers...see the adam's apple on that cute blonde?) when enticing them to come join our BBQ party.

 

But I know that most are not ready to drop the money yet until they smell those filets cooking...they want the top dog meat, and that's the Lanparty board.

 

 

Sorry if I was out of line, I have no problems or ego bruises, a man should have enough humility to appologise. I have never considered myself superior in knowledge to anyone else, credit where it's due. I know you do appreciate having me here (otherwise I'd have been sacked), as my helpfulness can sometimes outweigh my baggage. No-one is ever right 100% of the time..

 

nah, you weren't out of line. As I said, you raised all the right questions and concerns in one post and I used it as an example for the few out there who aren't grounded in reality ;)

 

I know you are, and I figured you to understand where I was going with it.

 

I'm wrong most of the time, but not 100% of the time either so we got that in common lol.

 

 

If you don't mind me saying so, you were not impressed with our benchmarks of Conroe when you did not have one yourself (I did have a DB entry at the time) and was made to feel that I was not trusted enough to give the thumbs up of it's performance. There is a thread where you replied quite strongly, not directly to me, but the statements where there (I know you were pissed at Intel for not providing you with a sample), but now that you have one you too are impressed at it's power, even at 1280X1024 EVEN in benchmarks.

 

no, if you read the OC DB 775 discussion thread, I was incredibly impressed with the benchmarks. Rokk @ Danger Den had just showed me some stupid Aquamark3d score with an ES Conroe and X1900XT Crossfires all crazy overclocked and watercooled and they were like 212,000 or something stupidly ridiculous.

 

I think a lot of it was somehow disbelief that these scores were being achieved...on the straight and narrow (I still believe that the cpu's all of you guys got that WOULD do 4Ghz etc were hand-picked just so you could show ridiculously stupid 200k scores to the rest of us lol).

 

I think also after reading HardOCP's bit about how the cpu's at gamer resolutions of 1600x1200 and higher, the Conroe was still a little better, but not like the monster it was compared to the AMD @ 'normal' resolutions of 1280x1024 and such where cpu is much bigger factor as the gpu's are hardly doing any work...I think it made me not really sure exactly what the deal was lol.

 

And of course, you are right, I was (and still am) extremely pissed at Intel for not even providing us a sample for technical support (let alone overclocking lol), and yet guys that didn't even have a job, they were just forum guys that hung out, who didn't NEED these cpu's, were getting them.

 

So yeah, that's part of it, I'll admit I'm not better than the next guy when I feel like I am getting shafted.

 

 

And don't take it like you weren't trusted enough to give the thumbs up to everyone here. I think (and thought then too) that the numbers in your OCDB entry would speak for themselves. No other OCDB entries on any platform were even close to yours in terms of benchmark numbers lol.

 

I think I was (and still am a little) suspicious of the whole affair (not of your numbers or your overclocking ability etc...more of...why can't we get one of these to test? I want to see if the damn thing REALLY is as good as everyone is showing it to be...but a REAL RETAIL chip, not some sample).

 

But again, please don't take it as I didn't trust you enough or anything of that matter. Keep in mind you were the ONLY person that even put a db entry up until technodanvan and I came in after with our own...only one dude dropping score-bombs like that in the db added a little to the suspicion (especially knowing how many of the 975X/G boards are being sold at any given time...).

 

My time restraints are becoming greater anyway, as I have the imminent launch of my own forum coming. Which means there'll be less of my verbal mistakes here for you to worry about.

 

There will always be links between us, as this place is valuable to send people for DFI advice.

 

 

I want this to end on a good note HG, no hard feelings here..

 

regards

Raja

 

good, I'm glad to know that. Takes a worry off my mind that you wouldn't understand and thought I was singling you out lol (I did, but for good).

 

You are always welcome here. I can assure you that we'll disagree in the future over something, so hopefully this will alert you to the fact that I'm not a trash-n-burn banner (ie i trash you and burn you in the forum then ban you so you can't reply hahaha). Like I said, you didn't do anything wrong at all. Rgone and I would love to see you post here when you can. I've not come across an ugly one yet from ya ;)

 

 

ps: your ocdb entry you are working on is only 50Mhz faster than mine...it gives me lots of confidence if I can get within 50Mhz of you without having to be walked through it step-by-step (handheld) by Rgone or you or anyone.

 

it also means that you are most likely right that this is going to be around the limit of what this board can squeeze out of this cpu...but at the same time, we won't know this until the Lanparty board comes...what if the E6600's that you and I have can only do around 3450-ish Mhz on that board too?

 

 

grrrr....I hate waiting!

 

 

 

keep up the good work, i might be swayed after all ;P

 

I'm gonna tell ya all honestly...by the time the Lanparty boards show up for the Conroe...you guys will have already scratched off about half of your skin waiting in anticipation because you just have to have one.

 

 

It's that serious.

 

Even at 2.4Ghz, the Conroe is more cpu than any but the top 3% overclocked dual-core AMD64's.

 

at 3Ghz, the Conroe has no competition except faster Conroes.

 

it's pretty much that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

or is it?

 

 

more testing must be done!

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you know what, I have a hunch it can be pushed out to around 395, though getting stability is gonna be the trick.

 

Trfc is tight in comparison to other boards, that's where some of the performance of this board comes from - clock for clock in comparision.

 

I'll be about no worries...

 

regards

Raja

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Happy i was wondering if your gonna be running any game benches like at 1600x1200 or higher with that new conroe and comparing to any AMD you might have to see how much the conroe makes a difference at higher resolutions cus from what i've read is that the higher the resolution the less the CPU works and the graphics cards take over. Maybe to see if the conroe REALLY makes a difference at high res cus most benchmarks are done at 1280x1024 or lower. Thanks for any info

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Happy i was wondering if your gonna be running any game benches like at 1600x1200 or higher with that new conroe
the cpu is strong enough though that now it is not a question of if the cpu or the gpu is bottlenecked, now with the C2D (especially overclocked!) the cpu is DEFINITELY not the bottleneck (at least so far at 1280x1024 resolution or lower. I'll be testing the 1600x1200 bits as soon as I can)

Has already been answered. Those are the results I'm waiting for. I'd drop the money today for a Conroe system but so for I haven't seen any real world performance numbers to justify the expense over what I currently have.

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