For all the would be software pirates.

[VaporX]

Replies like this only prove that you're not looking to actually discuss anything - you're just going to troll this into oblivion.

 

What is to discuss, the person is KNOWINGLY committing a crime. This is simple and factual. The person in question is using something in an illegal manner they could have legally used, so there is no point in discuss, a crook is a crook. Justify it all you like to feel better about your actions but the fact that you committed the actions does not change. What is even worse is the justification. I mean I might consider someone that steals food to feed his family a thief but his was a crime of need. Stealing a video game, movie or music is a pure crime of stupid, lazy cheap or any other adjective you want to use.

 

The movie and record industry has handled this badly and I for one will always agree with that but justifying the crime makes the person committing no better than they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Waco]

What is to discuss, the person is KNOWINGLY committing a crime. This is simple and factual.

Do we really need to get into the morality of laws here?

 

The point is not whether or not downloading is illegal. We all know it is. What we're talking about are the legitimate reasons to download something. Regardless of whether or not you want to admit it, there are a plethora of perfectly sound reasons why people may download something (be it a game, music, or a movie).

 

Of course, you won't acknowledge this, and this thread is going to go the way every other thread about piracy has - straight to the toilet.

[Alexandre]

What if we could rent pc games before we buy? Demos are terrible. That would great!

Do you guys have VideoEzy where you live? They allow you to rent games (and obviously Movies) here in Australia. I'm slightly surprised that you guys haven't come across this yet...

Edited December 16, 2011 by Alexandre

[F13Bubba]

quote name='InCrYsIs' timestamp='1323991509' post='1980838']

This should have already happened. I can't believe there is no PC game rental service. I would be all over that. I would want to be able to keep saves locally if I re-rent later though. I will have to do some reserch to see if there has been a thought or attempt at this when I have time.

 

Gamefly has a PC rental service in Beta right now. I have a key for it, but I won't use it bc you have to already be a subscriber, which is lame.

[medbor]

I see it as test driving a car. If I don't like it than I'm not going to buy it. They didn't lose a customer.

 

What the industry really needs to do is catch up with the times.

 

On the other hand, if it's $5 or less I'm probably going to buy it.

This is a MUCH better analogy.

Do you guys have moral quandary about test driving a car and decide against buying it? Probably not. I myself has limited gaming time right now and focus on one game at a time, when i'm finished with that i will try to find the next. I do buy the games i play, but not all the ones i test.

I still wonder how many pirated copies that actually would translate to a net loss for the company. i think pirating is about equal in losses gains for "good" games. some will not like it and never play it again, but some people that just wanted to see what the fuzz was about will actually like it and thus pay for the full content (usually multiplayer) and for moral reasons.

 

What if we could rent pc games before we buy? Demos are terrible. That would great!

I would like the cost to be deductible from the full price then, so that i don't have to pay more if i descide to buy it. one hour or two would definitely be enough for me (but thats usually half the game in these times )

 

I'm not sure if that's safe to say at all.

 

 

And really? Going straight to a physical property analogy? We all know those don't work and simply spark nasty debates where both sides are firmly set in their ideas and nothing will sway them.

 

That being said, downloading something is not the same as stealing. I am not depriving anyone of anything by downloading a game to see if I like it or not. I'm not going to buy a game outright unless I know I'm going to like it and there aren't many games that satisfy that requirement without a demo.

 

We don't live in a world of black and white and I really don't understand why people try to shoehorn every single thing into one of two categories for "right" and "wrong". We live in a world where everything is a shade of gray. My opinion is that if people want to download a game to try it out before buying, when no demo is available, then they are clearly MUCH closer to the lighter side of the moral spectrum than not.

 

 

 

Replies like this only prove that you're not looking to actually discuss anything - you're just going to troll this into oblivion.

I definitely believe in gray scales too. thanks for putting it out there!

 

I feel it is morally wrong to publically announce a DRM-free title and then track pirates by other means, thats like selling deep frozen hot water or something other selfcontradictory.

 

Finally my conclusion:

If you don't like a companys practice than spread your negative feedback to friends and family, if you like it spread positive feedback, word of mouth is much more powerful than downloading out of spite!

[Coors]

But I like spiting

[Guest_Jim_*]

I'll be honest, I had to read that a couple of times to understand it, I'm not very good at understanding the law, mainly because it doesn't make sense.

 

So with the hope that I do understand this, what prevents the defendant in this case from revealing the secret?

For one thing the defendant may never be told, just the lawyer, and I'm not sure if the lawyer is able to tell their client such information. If a court instructs someone to keep something secret, and they don't, they would very easily be sued, and lose, and there may even be a criminal suit against them too, as they violated a court's ruling. If a lawyer slipped the information against the court's wishes, all of that could happen, and they could be disbarred, thus ending their practice. Not a good idea for a lawyer or the defendant.

I'm sure this has already happened as there must have been monitoring techniques used in law enforcement that would then be explained to a judge either in simplistic turns, to protect the method, or in secret. Also, this requires the case actually goes to court. If the person accepts the settlement, then it isn't an issue. If they do not though then they could only fight in court that they were not a pirate, or that the method used violated their rights, or possibly both. So long as the person is a pirate there is actually a really good chance they would not want to go to court, at least if they're intelligent. If the person is not a pirate though, they should then be able to produce a valid activation key or receipt, which would then stop the company from letting it go to court. If the person is a pirate though, it would be a bad idea to go to court. Once there information could come out that would incriminate the pirate of other acts of piracy. (Seriously, stuff like this actually happens, but what I'm thinking of now refers to the use of DNA in old crimes; the principle still applies.)

 

That being said, downloading something is not the same as stealing. I am not depriving anyone of anything by downloading a game to see if I like it or not. I'm not going to buy a game outright unless I know I'm going to like it and there aren't many games that satisfy that requirement without a demo.

 

We don't live in a world of black and white and I really don't understand why people try to shoehorn every single thing into one of two categories for "right" and "wrong". We live in a world where everything is a shade of gray. My opinion is that if people want to download a game to try it out before buying, when no demo is available, then they are clearly MUCH closer to the lighter side of the moral spectrum than not.

I'm sorry, but I have to respond to this. How is it not stealing? You are still taking something you have no legal right to. You are depriving the producer of the content of their requested compensation for their efforts. It is stealing whether you download it or if you pocketed something in a store.

I do understand your qualification about seeing if you like the game or not, though, so don't get me wrong. I do believe that if more games had demos the less piracy you would see for exactly the reason you and others are pointing out. This is a fact about the majority of piracy; it stems not from a malicious intent directed at the right's holder, but from people just trying to do something for the sake of convenience. The illegal downloads for demos, pirating a piece of music to make sure it's worth buying, and even making too many copies of something, like an mp3, so you can have it on your computers and PMP. These are all, by definition, piracy, but understandable and directly because of a lack of convenience inherent to the system.

Regardless of where our understanding would put these actions on the moral spectrum, it is, by definition, illegal. So yes, if you want to argue there are understandable reasons, then we do have to get into the morality of laws because that's how the system works. Fortunately the system also works by requiring a complainant. If a game company you choose to download a game from does not choose to prosecute, you're fine, but you still broke the law. The old saying, "It isn't cheating if you aren't caught," is not true, it is still cheating, you're just lucky or people don't care.

 

To restate my opinion, the system needs fixing because if there is ever one 'reasonable' exception, someone can always argue there are more.

[Bosco]

I think if most games had Demo's that would help people get the chance to try it out before buying it.

 

There is to many good titles out there that never have a demo so you are stuck looking at pics or videos.

 

As for downloading the game illegally or getting a copy from some jackass that uploaded it to a torrent imo its wrong. I don't do it, nor have I ever done it. People are going to do it and there is nothing that we can do to stop it however doing what CD Projekt RED and the producers of Hurtlocker are doing is a good way to get peoples attention.

 

If you did it and are found guilty well serves you right for whatever your punishment is.

[Waco]

I'm sorry, but I have to respond to this. How is it not stealing? You are still taking something you have no legal right to. You are depriving the producer of the content of their requested compensation for their efforts. It is stealing whether you download it or if you pocketed something in a store.

It's not stealing because it's not. It's copyright infringement. Yes, it's illegal, I'm not disputing that. I just firmly believe there are many legitimate reasons to download something and that it shouldn't be inherently illegal. IE: broken disc, no more support, demo use, etc.

 

I'm not depriving anyone of a sale by downloading something to function as a demo. I will not buy a game without trying it out in some form unless I'm absolutely sure I'll like it. If anything, publishers GAIN sales through piracy since it allows people to try a game out before plunking down a fairly large chunk of change on it. Many, many, people won't do the latter without having played it in some form first.

 

 

If you did it and are found guilty well serves you right for whatever your punishment is.

What if you already own a copy of the game? Is it still wrong to download a copy?

Edited December 16, 2011 by Waco

[Bosco]

It's not stealing because it's not. It's copyright infringement. Yes, it's illegal, I'm not disputing that. I just firmly believe there are many legitimate reasons to download something and that it shouldn't be inherently illegal. IE: broken disc, no more support, demo use, etc.

 

I'm not depriving anyone of a sale by downloading something to function as a demo. I will not buy a game without trying it out in some form unless I'm absolutely sure I'll like it. If anything, publishers GAIN sales through piracy since it allows people to try a game out before plunking down a fairly large chunk of change on it. Many, many, people won't do the latter without having played it in some form first.

 

 

 

What if you already own a copy of the game? Is it still wrong to download a copy?

 

In that case, register you game with the company and if that happens they can offer you some support. But that again is on the company side, if they offer it then its up to the consumer to fill out the registration info and the company would have to honor it. Both the company and the consumers have to be involved to stop this stuff from happening.

 

No more support or company goes bankrupt I guess you don't have to worry about anything happening.

 

More or less I think you will start to see companies going away from discs altogether forcing you to go through Steam, Origin etc etc.

[Waco]

In that case, register you game with the company and if that happens they can offer you some support. But that again is on the company side, if they offer it then its up to the consumer to fill out the registration info and the company would have to honor it. Both the company and the consumers have to be involved to stop this stuff from happening.

 

But why go through all that when a simple download will fix things? Who am I hurting by downloading a game I already own?

[Lord_Guy]

But why go through all that when a simple download will fix things? Who am I hurting by downloading a game I already own?

 

I have a back-up of all of my games. Wether I have copied them myself or downloaded them isn't any different to a game company. I have 2 cats and roomates who aren't to carful with my things. My back-ups have come in handy more times than once.