Hellfire's 6/19 Bios With 12/18 ROMSIP

[SAE]

Originally posted by soundx98

It's obvious that SAE is a great choice to test a bios.

His knowledge and dedication are invaluable to a modder.

 

HellFire also needs to make sure that n00bs and oldfahts can use it without dorking their boards. Even the dumbest MF.

Someone dumb enough to use Winflash.

so who else would be a better choice than yours truely.

 

LOL, me dumbass always uses winflash

 

But I've been having no problems yet

[uwackme]

wondered where this topic went....

 

tested rev2 rev3 with APIC back on.... using IDE drive based WinXPpro sp2. Sound dropout still there over 230Mhz FSB.

 

At least its repeatable 100% :nod:

 

Let me know if I can be of help testing.... 6/19-rev2 is on base of Savior... removable chip is at your disposal.

[Oldfaht]

:D :D

 

HellFire also needs to make sure that n00bs and oldfahts can use it without dorking their boards. Even the dumbest MF.

 

I've been running great on all of Hells' and the official 6-19. I need to go back through all of them now that I have changed to Advanced Configuration acpi. and see what they will do. Shouldn't be any prob tho as I got 5 chips and the BS to play with, hehehe :cool:

 

Seems that my XP-m 2600 is running a bit hoter since the change w/ acpi???? Anybody got anything on this? Might just be coincidence, the weather or The HO' being a HO. I cleaned out the dust bunnies recently, maybe I just josstled sumthin', but I redid the AS Cream and still same-same.

 

@hell

Thanks for your efforts, and congrats on Mod status!

Just don't go to posting in sum new ferign langage, 'cus I had a hale of a time desipherin' dat udder guy at furst, u No? (he comes throught clear as a bell these days though. hehe)

 

Love this Place and I'm having a ball learning all I can from you guys!

 

The Oldfaht

[jukkis83]

wondered where this topic went.... tested rev2 rev3 with APIC back on.... using IDE drive based WinXPpro sp2. Sound dropout still there over 230Mhz FSB. At least its repeatable 100% Let me know if I can be of help testing.... 6/19-rev2 is on base of Savior... removable chip is at your disposal.

 

Got sound problems but after 255mhz. Try disabling ACPI or change the ACPI type of your computer, it helped me and many others...

[tictac]

i hope can reach high fsb with SAE LPB using my friends ram... hehehe

 

is it possible SAE?

 

[FlyingHamster]

Originally posted by jukkis83

Got sound problems but after 255mhz. Try disabling ACPI or change the ACPI type of your computer, it helped me and many others...

 

how much performance do u lose by doing that?

[Mysticdrew]

with rev3 bios, it keeps giving me an error when it boots, that the secondary IDE cable needs to be installed and a CPU error, and it saves everything except the FSB I set it at.

[uwackme]

Yes, I realize.... thats what I meant by APIC back on. I have a second drive that I left APIC on, so I can test results under APIC. Main drive is ACPI (APIC off), works fine with no sound issues at all speeds.

 

But as I've said before... NF7-S and A7N8Xdeluxe at 245Mhz fsb do NOT suffer from APIC being an issue, while DFI does. The only major difference is A: Bios, B: DFI has seperate voltage regulator for SB while ABit/Asus use Vdd for NB and SB.

[RGone]

...I don't want to but up this thread here too much more than it is and in truth when the "subject matter" or focus changes too greatly then the thread becomes by and large useless as a trouble shooting aid. Why you ask? A user has to try and go all the way back to the beginning to get into the ebb and flow and most are not going to do that nor is ie 'easy' to do. Now that said, I did not understand your injecting the post above. I did not say it was a 'bad' thing> I said I did not understand it! Might be better to start a thread addressing exactly what you mean??

 

 

But as I've said before... NF7-S and A7N8Xdeluxe at 245Mhz fsb do NOT suffer from APIC being an issue, while DFI does.

NF7-S is not a DFI board and hence is not designed the same! Right? I have never heard of an A7N8Xdlx that would run 245FSB but then I have not heard of every Asus board but by and large most report stopping at less than 210FSB. So when I read what you wrote> it really means very little to me. Just comparing apples to oranges on the surface. All motherboards trade off one thing it seems against another to windup performing in a particular manner.

 

Now to APIC. I know you know what it is? That is correct it is actually nothing more than virtual IRQ's. Virtual means not real. In order for it to work the chipset must first fully support and implement APIC. Then windoors the illustrious all conquering and never at fault O/s must manage the virtual or unreal IrQ's. Just suppose that the FSB's that the Sisters can attain and the adjustment of the memory timings that 'come' with the sisters> is such that windoors the illustrious cannot manage the virtual IrQ's well?

 

Suppose that every time Windoors needs to "manage" or call the virtual IrQ that the speed the board is running and perhaps an oddly adjusted or even too tightly adjusted memory timing is altering the call to the virtual IrQ? Somewhere in all that mix of timings and "virtualness" that requires everything to stay on 'track', is very likely a glitch that is overcome by dropping the virtual IrQ's and resorting back instead to the standard hard wired (16) IrQ's that are more easily managed and are "not floating" as it were.

 

Point is that once I read up on what APIC was and that Intel and M$ started it> I knew it was likely to be problematic. And gawd himself does not know how Nvidia might have chosen to support or implement APIC. I never ran my NF7 with APIC on when running in the 254FSB range and in fact never ever ran with APIC on on NF7 of mine at all. I loaded WinXP with it off every time I reloaded Windoors unto my NF7 to by pass what I had seen gave trouble way back then with NF2 chipset.

 

Now how well X board does Y thing is really the reason that there is more than one motherboard maker in existence. If they all performed exactly the same then we actually need only one maker of motherboards.

 

From the day I learned that APIC dealt with virtual IrQ's I have shunned it like the plague knowing full well that Intel and M$ were the promulagators of it and hence likely to best handled only in an Intel way with Windoors sometimes doing fine and other times doing poorly as is always the case with windoors.

 

Now I don't know a whole lot more than this on the subject but what little I have glimpsed surely pointed me to non use of APIC from my first day of NF2 use and my NF7.

 

You are now all returned to your regularly scheduled programming having taken this opportunity to get a wider view of APIC into the big picture.

 

Sincerely, RGone...

[SAE]

Originally posted by tictac

i hope can reach high fsb with SAE LPB using my friends ram... hehehe

 

is it possible SAE?

 

 

May be possible At least you'd get to around 270

But keep in mind the NF2 boards don't profit from high latency ram.

 

I think RAS-to-CAS 4 kills performancy heavily.

 

I hope you get your board soon. I dunno if it's on its way now from holland to ya, pal, but should be...

 

 

Originally posted by FlyingHamster

how much performance do u lose by doing that?

 

It's 700-800 points in 3dmark01 for me... dunno what other benches/games are affected though... but 3dm03 should niot take such a hit as it's more vid card dependant... 01 is system dependant.

 

 

Originally posted by uwackme

But as I've said before... NF7-S and A7N8Xdeluxe at 245Mhz fsb do NOT suffer from APIC being an issue, while DFI does.

 

That's not true... at least what I can tell from my several NF7-S'...

 

My NF7-s' were all having severe probs with APIC at 245x11.5 and high vcore about 2-2.06V+.... it just locked up trying to start 3dmark01 and other 3d apps... I lost keyboard and sound and mouse during prime at high vcores... I got it stable at that speed though... but any higher I tried was a no go with apic.

 

I definatley do experience similar issues with the DFI too... but at 272MHz max timings and 12x multi and 2.24V Vcore. LOL

 

So go figure...

 

P.S. I did never find a mod to fix it with the ABIT, but my DFI is modded, I know, I doubt apic being a problem with stock boards though as I was trying some under stock conditions too

[uwackme]

Yeah, I've never gone over 1.875 Vcore on anything....only Air cooling here. What happens at higher Vcore Im not the guy to ask.

 

I have 2 NF7-S and an A7N8Xdeluxe (all rev 2.0) and they all take my 2x 256M CH5 (KHX3500) to 245Mhz fsb @ 11,2,3,2.0 @ 3.25Vdimm (1.625Vtt). Using the twin of my 2600+ in the Infinity.

 

Mind you, neither can touch a DFI on FSB....cant break 230Mhz w/2x 512M sticks, and the DFI can easily break 250Mhz with the 2x 256M sticks. There is no comparison, thats why Im on DFI :nod:

 

But as a point of information, all 3 of those non-DFI do APIC enabled at 245Mhz no lan/sound dropouts playing AArmy/Farcry/Doom (other than DOOM3's builtin sound FKup).

 

Mind you, go much past where I am...245Mhz... and we know from LastViking, etc that the others fkup APIC also.

 

Looking at the differences....mind you ALL of the NForce2's are cousins, based on the same reference board, with relatively minor differences. ASUS was first, ABit learned from ASUS's mistakes to make the NF7-S, and DFI learn from both thier mistakes to make the LPuB/InfU. I dont think there will be another round of versions ;-)

 

But it is those slight differences that are at the heart of why one acts differently than the other, etc.

 

Also, remember MY NF7-S and A7N8Xdel are Vmod'd...not stock...so I have 1.8-1.9Vdd and 3.3Vdimm to work with. Stock they dont do these speeds...esp the ASUS.

 

One of the key design differences between DFI and the others... DFI uses a seperate voltage regulator for the SB....set to 1.675V-ish on avg I think. While the others all run the NB/SB from the same mosfet at Vdd (whatever that is set to). Surely you can see that has the potential to make a difference in how they act?

 

I really need to bite the bullet....with this solid, repeatable APIC/sound dropout to test with.... and Vmod the SB to see if there is any help to be had.

 

Beyond the SB difference, the bios is the only thing really seperating the boards...in reference to the issue at hand, highFSB dropouts. Both the LAN and APU are in the SB, and both are the subject of the issues, so my engineer gene's tell me to focus attention here, till proven otherwise.

 

Also, another point about APIC... if you move to a PCI sound card (forget Audigy for a sec, think Phillips, Turtlebeach, Hercules, CMedia) and also think LAN cards like a realtec or linksys generic.

 

When these are used to replace the onboard APU and/or LAN at issue, having APIC still on doesnt stop those solutions from working. Meaning it isnt the CPU's internal APIC circuit that is FKing up, as that still functions, only its other devices generating the interupts.

 

In otherwords, using the scientific method, you isolate each of the suspected items on its own. Then test each one, and then validate/invalidate your hypothesis about WHAT is responsible based on testing. You put APIC in a box, and beat the crap out of it, see if you can make it fail w/o the APU/LAN onboard.

 

If you cant, you need to look at other parts of the equation till you isolate what is really happening.

 

There are other indepth engineering issues. Ex: HOW long is the signal pulse from the SB for these interupts... what if NVidia had the signal at the hairy edge of satisfying the AMD/Intel standard for that signal....so minor differences (even trace length on PCBoard) could impact reliability.

 

Without a THOROUGH design review of the NVidia NForce2 design, we cant ever hope to even discover such issues, let alone fix them. DAMN YOU NVidia.... release the documentations, the product lifecycle is OVER after all, you've moved on to A64.

 

oh well, enough babbling.

[SAE]

uwackme... I know what you are talking about... I know it for sure. You got a point there, my friend.

 

BUT I could fix my sound probs setting the PCI sound card to 128clk latency (from 32 dflt), the pci lat. to 96. That definately fixed all sound drop issues.

 

Did you try that? Is there any way to set the latency of the soundstorm too? Through latencyset application, I mean?!

 

And don't bother with the SB vdd mod... it does not help

 

I tried it with 3 different boards and gained no single bit of stability (tried up to 1.85V, cooling is good)