Gun control

[iluvstrats2]

^^I like that idea!

[Phil]

Obama has said nothing about taking guns away. All the new laws do is gather data. Unless you're a dribbling lunatic or a criminal, you will still be able to buy guns just as you do now. For the record, the supreme court already ruled on what the second amendment grants you, either a shotgun or a pistol to protect your property.

 

I really think some of the people here are living in some kind of bubble. Reality isn't getting in.

 

I'll have to admit that what came out is a lot more rational than I had feared.  There are some troubling parts which need careful watching, (especially the ambiguous "data gathering"), but Obama apparently crafted his message knowing full well that much of the emotion of the day will subside, and draconian gun control measures now will only create unwanted turmoil down the road. 

 

Having said that, the Congress is really primed on this, it is far from over.  Obama may actually have done the 2A a favor by setting a tone of moderation on the issue.

[Hyper Threaded]

I think Obama has been more than reasonable on this issue, to be perfectly honest. He faces an often irrational opposition that refuses to co-operate at all. Screaming that the only solution is more guns. Being president, it must be difficult to compromise and attempt to please them.

[Andrewr05]

Screaming that the only solution is more guns.

While I dont necessarily disagree with that, I think often times (as per how the media works) only the extremes of all the sides make it through.

 

Not just in firearms regulation, but in all things the media picks the most dramatic and focuses on that. Thats how they work, if they dont get their views they arent making money.

Do we think as much as the media themselves dances around 'political correctness' and as much as they like to be unbiased that they actually give a shit how fear mongering they are and how apt they are to be stereotypical?

 

[Phil]

. Screaming that the only solution is more guns.

That's a pretty big mischaracterization IMO.  A lot of emotion on the anti side, but the pro 2A side is just playing defense while trying to be sensitive about a national tragedy.  The main message isn't more guns, it's let's not overreact and deny millions of law abiding citizens their rights with no proof that it will work.  The NRA message (not screaming) is armed guards in schools, which sounds like more guns, but is more about increasing security in a sensitive area through law enforcement agencies.  Most gun rights advocates just want to not lose ground. 

[Hyper Threaded]

 

. Screaming that the only solution is more guns.

That's a pretty big mischaracterization IMO.  A lot of emotion on the anti side, but the pro 2A side is just playing defense while trying to be sensitive about a national tragedy.  The main message isn't more guns, it's let's not overreact and deny millions of law abiding citizens their rights with no proof that it will work.  The NRA message (not screaming) is armed guards in schools, which sounds like more guns, but is more about increasing security in a sensitive area through law enforcement agencies.  Most gun rights advocates just want to not lose ground. 

 

 

Not really. By contrast, the gun control advocates have been the rational ones. That is, when the gun nuts actually let them speak. They're often so full of themselves that they cannot believe someone would even suggest... a law that doesn't affect them in any way.

[Phil]

 

 

. Screaming that the only solution is more guns.

That's a pretty big mischaracterization IMO.  A lot of emotion on the anti side, but the pro 2A side is just playing defense while trying to be sensitive about a national tragedy.  The main message isn't more guns, it's let's not overreact and deny millions of law abiding citizens their rights with no proof that it will work.  The NRA message (not screaming) is armed guards in schools, which sounds like more guns, but is more about increasing security in a sensitive area through law enforcement agencies.  Most gun rights advocates just want to not lose ground. 

 

 

Not really. By contrast, the gun control advocates have been the rational ones. That is, when the gun nuts actually let them speak. They're often so full of themselves that they cannot believe someone would even suggest... a law that doesn't affect them in any way.

 

Gun nuts?  Got it.

[InCrYsIs]

Frog in boiling water analogy applies to this whole situation.  Slow and steady, not quick and easy.  More "stuff" happens then it will be "re-evaluated".  More changes and more restrictions will be coming.  Count on it.

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Frog in boiling water analogy applies to this whole situation.  Slow and steady, not quick and easy.  More "stuff" happens then it will be "re-evaluated".  More changes and more restrictions will be coming.  Count on it.

+1

 

This is my greatest fear. Only hope is that the advocates for more gun control are going to want to do to much to fast. 

[wevsspot]

I'm troubled by the part amending the Health Care Bill - why in the heck would your physician ask you about guns in the home?  That doesn't make any sense.  It also sounds to me like the Feds will pull the purse strings when it comes to your health care provider reporting to the NCIS if you are having mental health problems.  If so better get all your scrips for depression, anxiety, PTS and any other potential "mental health" medication before all this goes into affect.  Because if you speak with your physician in private in the future and he determines that  you are having mental health issues, he just might report you.

 

Guess what - congratulations - you are now officially on the list of folks "banned" from buying, owning or even possessing a firearm. 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Yeah, just wait until your name shows up on a "no fly list" or "can't purchase firearms list" in error and see what kind of hell you have to go through in order to get it fixed.  The ICS database is only as good as the data that gets fed into it.  Now imagine the thousands upon thousands of barely McDonald qualified government employees that are responsible for management and oversight of that system.

 

Many of you old timers may remember my story of somehow showing up on a "no fly list" and getting stranded in Chicago.  It took me months to finally get that straightened out.

 

However, I'm encouraged and even emboldened by some of the recent emails I've received from my representatives here in Arkansas, and those I've read from other states too.  Even law enforcement is starting to pipe in now...... finally.

 

This is an issue that I really believe has the potential to rip our country apart.

 

One of my best reads of the day;

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/01/15/why-am-newly-minted-member-nra/

 

A liberal Jew opining on why he just joined the NRA - go figure.

Just got done reading this. Best quote from Groucho Marx that applies to both parties:

 

[Phil]

I'm troubled by the part amending the Health Care Bill - why in the heck would your physician ask you about guns in the home?  That doesn't make any sense.  It also sounds to me like the Feds will pull the purse strings when it comes to your health care provider reporting to the NCIS if you are having mental health problems.  If so better get all your scrips for depression, anxiety, PTS and any other potential "mental health" medication before all this goes into affect.  Because if you speak with your physician in private in the future and he determines that  you are having mental health issues, he just might report you.

 

Guess what - congratulations - you are now officially on the list of folks "banned" from buying, owning or even possessing a firearm. 

 

This is the sticky part of guns and mental health.  Who gets the last word?  I've been to doctors who were best suited to a job moping floors.  Will ordinary people having a tough time be lumped together with lifetime sociopaths?  One one hand it could lead to a real worthwhile interventions, but the abuse potential is huge.  Broad based oversight would be a must, hard to get in a faster cheaper world.