I need some help convincing a friend

[Waco]

but out of all seriousness unless your a picky elitist PC user then a crappy TN panel works fine for a budget build.

I'm elitist then. I don't like to actually SEE the dithering when I'm playing games.

[N.E.A]

Sorry to hear that i actually have an ASUS 25 inch wide screen monitor and it's gorgeous.

............thank you ................ i love ASUS :wub:

[ocre]

I'm elitist then. I don't like to actually SEE the dithering when I'm playing games.

 

Thats bull! just because its cheap or a bargain lcd doesnt mean you can see dithering. Thats a very misleading statement. Do you think you will be able to see dithering on these budget bargains?:

 

$129.99

$139.99

$109.99

$109.99

 

Heck even this one:

 

$99.99

 

Now these are about as budget as you can get, super el cheapo! please please is there anyone here who thinks they would be able to see dithering with these crappy dirt cheap budget brand lcds?

Edited August 27, 2009 by ocre

[IVIYTH0S]

Thats bull! just because its cheap or a bargain lcd doesnt mean you can see dithering. Thats a very misleading statement. Do you think you will be able to see dithering on these budget bargains?:

 

$129.99

$139.99

$109.99

$109.99

 

Heck even this one:

 

$99.99

 

Now these are about as budget as you can get, super el cheapo! please please is there anyone here who thinks they would be able to see dithering with these crappy dirt cheap budget brand lcds?

Hanns-G's are even better than Acer, and WOW to that 22" for $140. I'm definitely telling my friend to get that for his new build.

[Waco]

Thats bull! just because its cheap or a bargain lcd doesnt mean you can see dithering.

Play Bioshock on one and you'll see it.

 

Trying to get a good contrast range out of cheap panels is a lost cause.

[AIinc]

I went from my Samsung 226bw to this one I currently am using (Acer 24"H243H 2ms), and I also play BioShock, among many other game titles, and this monitor is as good if not better than my old Samsung! I also have a SCEPTRE Naga LCD HDTV, and it is a very nice TV.

 

I can't comment on the Hanns models, never seen one.

 

Years ago, it was common place to get a LCD with dead or stuck pixels, but now they are just so many out there, it's harder to find a bad one! You just need to do your research!

 

I say, get what you can afford!

But I do like this 24" wide screen better than my old 22"

 

But back on topic.

I think I'd spend the extra 59.00 and get what your trying to talk him into!

Edited August 28, 2009 by Inteller

[ocre]

Play Bioshock on one and you'll see it.

 

Trying to get a good contrast range out of cheap panels is a lost cause.

 

A quick look and you should have noticed every one of those lcds I listed display a full 16.7 million colors. this is because every one of them are true 24 bit and not the 3 rows of 6 bit which is required for a lcd to use dithering.

dithering is used in lcds to turn the 260,000 color combinations into a whooping 16.2 million colors. Its not a shameful process and some of the most well trained eyes cannot tell the difference between a dithered 16.2 to the true 16.7 million colors in most cases.

But out of all the cheap, crappy monitors I listed you will see no more dithering then any other expensive model, because it is true 24bit, which is 3 rows of 8 bit color per pixel. True color! just like your more expensive model. no different what so ever as far as dithering goes.

 

Now that isnt where it ends. Most images you see on your screen are reduced quality, that is dithered already, which have nothing to do with any monitor's capabilities. You see dithering everyday and dont even realize it.

This is what makes your statement so missleading

1) just because its a cheap monitor doesnt mean its 6bit and uses dithering (every one i listed is 8 bit)

2) even if you have an 8 bit true color setup you arent free from seeing dithering as most images you see are reduced quality

 

you will not see the dithering before your eyes on these cheap monitors, no more then you see it on your expensive one. Their are some crappy lcds which do do a bad dithering job which have given dithering a bad rep.

Here is a quick tip, Any monitor that list 16.2 million colors is a 6 bit model, which uses dithering to achieve the 16.2million. Any model that says 16.7million is an24bit (3 rows of 8bit per pixel).

So 6bit(16.2million) use dithering and 8 bit (16.7million) is true color, but almost all images are reduced quality over the net and elsewhere, so it really doesnt make a difference even still.

Edited August 28, 2009 by ocre

[Waco]

A quick look and you should have noticed every one of those lcds I listed display a full 16.7 million colors.

I'm not going to lie; I didn't even glance at the specs because I'm so used to seeing 6 bit panels on cheap monitors.

 

I stand corrected - but be sure to check that before buying. My roommate has a 24" BenQ and while relatively nice, you can see the dithering when playing games that have a very high contrast ratio (IE: dark games).

 

 

I still tend to favor better monitors simply because I'm a stickler for black levels and most cheap monitors have some pretty horrific bleed-through.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Waco

[IVIYTH0S]

I still tend to favor better monitors simply because I'm a stickler for black levels and most cheap monitors have some pretty horrific bleed-through.

Won't argue there, I haven't gotten an lcd monitor yet that can do perfect blacks

[ocre]

I'm not going to lie; I didn't even glance at the specs because I'm so used to seeing 6 bit panels on cheap monitors.

 

I stand corrected - but be sure to check that before buying. My roommate has a 24" BenQ and while relatively nice, you can see the dithering when playing games that have a very high contrast ratio (IE: dark games).

 

 

I still tend to favor better monitors simply because I'm a stickler for black levels and most cheap monitors have some pretty horrific bleed-through.

 

I came a long way and learned a bunch myself. I was just wanting to help you from misleading people as I would've.

About 2 yrs ago, i once told a friend to go to a few places like best buy and such an look at all the models to see what he preferred. You know, spent some time before he decided on one and we could find it somewhere a lot cheaper. It was when there where just pure crappy looking lcds in every brand name, just about, but there was major differences, more dramatic then now. Of course he picked a model which looked like a total fail on paper. I ordered it online for him but just couldnt believe he picked out this 6bit lime 500:1 like 10ns, or something i really dont remember. He just kept saying it was the by far best one out of all the ones he looked at. When it came it, I was a little surprised to see that it actually looked decent. I was telling him all about dithering and when the lcd came in, I just couldnt point it out, this monitor done it very well. I had to get a program that force dithering scenarios and algorithms that would exaggerate the flaws just to show him. After that I realized that when done correctly, dithering can really be pulled off. Anyway, i also learned that those specs list dont ever mean jack, even some 8 bit lcds have horrible color ranges. You pretty much have to go by first hand experience or else look at reviews and what people tell you. But before then, I took the specs as a pretty good indication of the display. I know up until 1 yr ago i learned that there was only 3 major lcd screen manufactures that supplied the panels for every brand of lcd on the market. 3 companies made all the panels. Those 3 had different quality lcds they produced high to low, but all budget brands to the very expensive ordered from the sam place. So other then the plastic casing style speakers, the most important part, the lcd, was from a very limited supply. That is the reason some off brands can impress. BTW, Hanns G was one of the lcd panel manufactures that released a monitor as well. Their panels can be found in many other brand name lcds.

Edited August 28, 2009 by ocre