Who Are You Voting For In '04?

[AYoKoNA]

I'm sorry but that is a tad idealistic/childish... taxes go towards infrastructure... y'know schools, hospitals, roads etc. unfortunately it's a necessary evil.

 

Just be thankful next time your taxes are due you don't pay 25c plus in the dollar (OUCH!)

I didn't say i was AGAINST TAXES... I said i was against

Income tax I meant income tax if you read my whole shpeal... I didnt word that in the beginning.....

 

Schools should be privatized like business

 

So should hospitals

 

Infrastructure and Military can be paid for by national and state SALES TAX

THIS is how it was done in the U.S. prior to 1913 of the income tax law....

 

Not childish at all

[Iggy]

Liberals invented the myth of McCarthyism to deligitamize questions about their own patrotism. ..but somehow their loyalty to the United States is off limits to a political debate. Why don't we ask who is more loyal to the United States, Democrats or Republicans? You could win that case in court. Fifty years go Joe McCarthy said, "The loyal democrats of this nation no longer have party" - Ann Coutler's "Treason"

 

Just a tad off the subject, but I thought I'd post it anyway. "Questions about their own patriotism"? Ok, so let me get this straight, to be a patriot, I have to beleive what ever propaganda the government tells me and blindly follow the words of the cheif executive? Am I disloyal to US by having an opinion different than that of the current administration? Peace isn't patriotic? I will fly the flag when I am proud of what my country is doing-not ashamed.

[AYoKoNA]

Am I disloyal to US by having an opinion different than that of the current administration?

When THE DEMOCRATIC FRONT RUNNER

"Howard Dean"

says that its an "interesting theory" that Bush knew about Sept 11th b4 it happened...

Yes i consider that TREASON....

Good luck getting elected guys......

[ClayMeow]

Everybody in society is working......

No taxes taken out of your check......

I'm sorry but that is a tad idealistic/childish... taxes go towards infrastructure... y'know schools, hospitals, roads etc. unfortunately it's a necessary evil.

 

Just be thankful next time your taxes are due you don't pay 25c plus in the dollar (OUCH!)

 

And in reference to that dubya - ape thing... comedians have been comparing our Prime Minister to a shaven ewok for ages... now that's funny

i agree with taz, you (AYoKoNA) have now become just as bad as howie_b but on the otherside of the spectrum. As taz said, you're being idealistic. We do not live in a utopia. There will never be full employment. Just like there will never be complete peace throughout the world. It's unrealistic and naive to think so.

 

I'm so glad neither of you people have a say in our govt. Privatizing schools? I'm very glad i went to a public school, and wouldn't have had it any other way. It's enough that people get subsidized for private schools. That's just bull crap. Talk about a waste of govt funds.

 

 

Oh, and taz...comparing your prime minister to a shaven ewok! lol, that's priceless.

[AYoKoNA]

Yea ok buddy....keep on pumping tax dollars to the gov't that just mismanages it.

 

Why not privatize education... THEY GET THE BEST!! better than any public school...

 

Im not being idealistic...

Im saying just get rid of income tax....

 

You just believe that ppl aren't responsible enough to take care of themselves...

Im telling you if they had extra money in their paycheck let them decide what they want to do with their money..

Prior to 1913 everything was fine with no income tax, and no social programs..

All you have to do is read about it..

Here it goes......

http://www.larryelder.com/

 

::: THE TEN STEPS TO FIX AMERICA

 

The 10-Point Elder Plan

 

1) Abolish the IRS

Pass a National Sales Tax--Also known as the "Let's Make Tax Lawyers and Lobbyists an Endangered Species Act." A simplified tax code gives lobbyists little to lobby about. A low tax rate spurs people to work harder without resorting to schemes to "shelter" income. At the turn of the century, government took 10 percent of the national income. Now it takes nearly 40 percent. Low taxes means higher productivity and greater job creation. Let's welcome any move to reduce our tax burden, whatever form it takes.

 

2) Reduce Government by 80 percent

Less than 2 percent of Americans are farmers, yet the Department of Agriculture adds still more bureaucrats. And what exactly does the Department of Commerce do? Do we need the Small Business Administration? Amtrak? The Tennessee Valley Authority? Department of Education? Before 1950, the government largely stayed out of the housing business. Now we have housing projects in all of our major cities. They have become sewers of crime and drugs. The government, an absentee landlord, couldn't care less. The private sector can build housing more cheaply, with an incentive to maintain the property and screen tenants.

 

3) End Welfare, Entitlements and Special Privileges

Welfare for the poor works out to a national average of $12,000 to $13,000 a year (cash and non-cash) per recipient. Why work at minimum wage? Why worry about impregnating someone when the government shields you from financial responsibility? But welfare for the non-poor, or entitlements, are five times as bad. This includes Social Security (the average recipient has put in fifteen cents for every dollar he or she takes out), Medicare, tuition tax credits, farm and dairy subsidies, tobacco subsidies, as well as government ownership or control of airports and utilities.

 

4) Abolish the Minimum Wage

A low-paying job remains the entry point for those with few marketable skills. The minimum wage hurts the so-called hard-core unemployable by forcing an employer to pay more than the fair value of labor. Every time the government raises the minimum wage, thousands of entry-level jobs get destroyed.

 

5) Legalize Drugs

Legalization does not mean approval. America spends at least $20 billion a year to fight a losing battle against drugs. (Research by William F. Buckley places America's direct and indirect costs of this "war" at more than $200 billion a year.) Experts say that worldwide, the annual drug trade may be as high as $500 billion! "Just say no" ain't gonna stop that. The drug trade provides an economic incentive for children and teens to drop out of school and earn fast money. It accounts for 50 percent of all street crimes and perhaps 30 percent of the prison population. Tax drugs, and use the money for drug treatment and additional police protection. Drug legalization would free up prison spaces, vacancies that could be used to lock up violent criminals. What about the harm to society? Drug abuse would have to increase well over fivefold to match the deaths caused by cigarette smoking (allegedly 400,000 a year).

 

6) Take Government Out of Education

Before the mid 1800s, elementary and secondary education (except for slaves) was largely parent financed. Today, taxpayers spend more than $6,000 a year per student, more than virtually any other country, including Japan. With what result? Poor test scores, high dropout rate, kids incapable of filling out employment applications. Why can't the private sector assume this responsibility? Let's cheer anything, including vouchers, that takes us in this direction.

 

7) Drop the Davis-Bacon Act

This little-known act compels contractors bidding on government jobs to pay union wages. This cuts out competent, non-union workers willing to work for less. This hurts minorities, many of whom were for years discriminated against by unions.

 

8) Eliminate Corporate Taxes

The government taxes corporate profits and re-taxes the dividends, taking money otherwise used to reduce prices, pay higher dividends, pay higher salaries, or invest in research and development. More corporate investment means more jobs.

 

9) Charity from People Not Government

During the 1980s, the "decade of greed," charitable contributions by corporations and private citizens increased by at least 30 percent! Why? People had more disposable income, paid fewer taxes, and therefore gave more away. Americans are among the most generous people on Earth. But people want their money to go to people and organizations that they choose and trust.

 

10) End Protectionism

How many people know that Japanese trucks and minivans cost $2,000 more due to import tariffs? Government-mandated "price supports" force consumers to pay more for milk. Government goodies for the tobacco and sugar industries stiff consumers. Congress imposes a mind-boggling array of rules and regulations to protect declining, inefficient businesses, while taking money away from new ones.

Edited December 16, 2003 by AYoKoNA

[tazwegion]

"Howard Dean"

says that its an "interesting theory" that Bush knew about Sept 11th b4 it happened...

Yes i consider that TREASON....

It's not treason... but it is slanderous and manipulative

 

 

 

Infrastructure and Military can be paid for by national and state SALES TAX

THIS is how it was done in the U.S. prior to 1913 of the income tax law....

 

Not childish at all

 

Yeah... but sorry it is, living in the past & resisting, rather than welcoming change (and growing w/ it) goes beyond idealistic... to unrealistic/childish... just because something used to work a particular way, doesn't mean it would today.

 

Having said that we are the 'dopes' who are almost paying the highest taxes in the world... aren't we silly buggers

 

Additional to 25% income tax is a 10% GST (goods & services tax) which is really only a Value Added Tax (VAT) because they never repealed the original taxing system just implemented directly over it.... so back to your point the fools in Gov't will ultimately waste it & want more.

 

Think about it... if those that governed us were any good with financial planning/wealth creation... they'd be in business for themselves & not spending 'us' broke.

 

So like I said before... be thankful next time your taxes are due

 

Lastly, your point about reducing Gov't by 80%... right on !00%

 

But privatising education... poor socio/economic background=poor education provision for offspring... thus repeating the cycle...

Edited December 16, 2003 by tazwegion

[ClayMeow]

wow...it would take forever for me to comment on the 10 things you have stated in your post. Some I agree with...some i don't, but i don't have the time to get into anything right now. One thing i will say...# 8. Bush tried passing a law eliminating double taxation...i forget if it was passed or not. And who says private schools get better education than public? Maybe in some areas, but I got a great education at my public school...and i don't want to send my kids anywhere that is going to mandate what they can and can't wear. Self-expresion is part of freedom.

[tazwegion]

I got a great education at my public school...and i don't want to send my kids anywhere that is going to mandate what they can and can't wear. Self-expresion is part of freedom.

 

Well I feel that public education is the best way that a Gov't can 'invest' in the future of the country.

 

Secondly public schools here have a uniform policy... the idea being not to stifle individuality, but allow for uniformity in the dress code, so those who can't afford Nike.. Reebok.. Stussy.. Adidas.. etc. don't get discriminated against by those who can... after all school is for learning, not a fashion parade

Edited December 17, 2003 by tazwegion

[AYoKoNA]

Well I feel that public education is the best way that a Gov't can 'invest' in the future of the country.

Obviously you haven't visited the LA county School system, (in which I belong)

One of the worst in the country......And gangs galore.......

The schools here are just a place for "gangsters" to hang out.......

Not that it adhere's me from getting an education, nothing should stop anybody from education, even poverty strucken "Chinese" when moved here to China Town in the 1900's had no money and are still one of the most successfull ppl...

therefor "Blacks" and others cannot say that poverty has anything to do with it....

 

Just one note for you guys

Here is the costs to house a student each year in both public and private schools (i.e. how much it costs the taxpayer or school to teach you for a year per student)

 

LA County spends $12,300 per year for a student (and u guys don't want me to start on how bad an LA county education is)

 

The Catholic School System spends $2,800, and they produce student test scores that average at or above grade level...

 

The bottom line is "private" school is better...Why do ALL rich and famous ppl (i.e. actors, politicians..etc) send there kids to private schools, why, because you are almost gauranteed a college admission and good grades because your parents are "paying" for it directly....

And why does LA COUNTY spend 3 times more money than the Catholic school system for a shattier education?

[tazwegion]

And why does LA COUNTY spend 3 times more money than the Catholic school system for a shattier education?

Sorry but we don't have that gangster thing here (yet?) so our public schools are okay... I've been to both private & public admitably their standards for work are different... but I learnt far more @ a public school then its counterpart.

 

Having said that the reason 'state schools' LA county etc. cost more to run... perhaps it comes back to our point before about financial mis-management?

 

Keep in mind private schools are run as a business... and public schools need to replace vandalised property etc.

 

So living in 'your world' state run schools wouldn't be even an option for me

 

Oh & about that 10th proposition... thet'd be fine with the agricultural industry here... fighting against import tariffs/protectionism/quotas etc. a free and open market

 

 

Lastly abolish income tax... never happen... wish it would though, my wife has a pen-pal over in the U.S. and 'their' part-time wage equals (after conversion) my full time wage before tax... and I'm tertiary educated plus 10 years experience & promotions.

 

I tell ya' security guards get more an hour... unless your a specialist... the medical industry pays poorly.

 

Anyways enough of my moaning

[Will Smith]

I voted for bush, and I'll do it again.

 

crap Big me and u think alike. Dubya has my vote in 04.

[sYstEmATiC]

I voted for bush, and I'll do it again.

my parents said the same thing....and if i were 18...i would be too

 

 

btw....this topic needs to be closed lol

Edited December 17, 2003 by sYstEmATiC