Stmason Posted March 10, 2003 Posted March 10, 2003 This is somewhat true as well. Please note that I said "strongest and most dedicated". I have no illusions of where from, or what the original settlers were. The atrocitys we inflicted on the natives is sickening. and a lot of them were shipped back overseas to become slaves in Europe! And of course, many other peoples were brought here because of slavery, and thousands more because of the promise of a better life in the "new world". Whether they were slaves or masters, settlers or explorers, they all had one thing in common. That was the mental, emotional, and physical strength to overcome the hardships of long sea travel as well as disease and poverty. We are the only country in the world that embraces individuality with more than mere tolerance, and literally has every ethnic group in the world within it's borders. Everything I stated in the above post is fact as far as I know it, and I left out a whole bunch of info simply cause I can't write it all down here:). As far as my opinion? I think Bush is an idiot. As a person, I would love to have him over to the ranch and ride horses with the family, but there are a lot of people that fit into that catagory, that no way in hell would I want running the country. Do I support him? You bet!! All the way and then some. Again, we the people voted him into office, and my personal; opinion means little when it comes to support of our leaders . . . except in time of the election process. We would do well to have more allys like the Brits. People we can count on in a time of need, and can count on us in a heartbeat. Besides that, when we take over the world, and if they help, maybe we'll give them thier own country- that England place would suit them just fine:) (If you took that part seriously, your in dire need of a . . . . . . . .) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 10, 2003 Posted March 10, 2003 I think volcompimp has been making some awesome points and hes totally right in every respect. I think Bush is a pretty decent president and he's doing what he thinks is right, so more power to him. But about the war...which is relaly what I wanted to talk about. Â I was pretty undecided for a while, I finally came to a conclusion last thursday. I was reading up on slashdot and I read and article about Tony Blair having an open forum debate with a whole bunch of students on MTV. Tony blair has been a pretty good ally to have and was agreeing with bush about going to war. Every student was agaisnt him and totally just going after him and basically trying to make him look stupid. All but 1 student. A student stood up and said "There is a fire in iraq and it is Saddam hussien, if you goto iraq can you promise me that you'll put out that fire?"(or somthing to that effect) Tony blair said, yes, if we goto iraq there will be a regime change. That in it self isnt a big deal except that that student is from iraq, is an iraqi. Someone leaves their homeland and asks a nation to wage war on it, thats deep, that means somthing. I looked into it a bit more. Hussien is a horrible dictator, a butchter of his own people. As much as I wish the US could just stand idling by and not get involved we have the pwoer to stop it and so we should. If you were walking down the street and you saw an old lady getting jumped by 2 guys would you just say "we shouldnt get invloved, what have those guys done to us?" no, you have to go stop it because its the right thing to do. Its the same thing with this war. Â Â And about the spelling, it doesnt really mean that much with intelligence, I have a friend who's IQ is upwards of 165 and hes the worst speller I know. Besides everyone has thier days where they just cant spell or just cant do somthing. 1 time doesnt mean jack and I hate it when people try to use stuff like that to bring down a person, its low and it just shows ignorance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YODA74 Posted March 10, 2003 Posted March 10, 2003 And about the spelling, it doesnt really mean that much with intelligence, I have a friend who's IQ is upwards of 165 and hes the worst speller I know. Besides everyone has thier days where they just cant spell or just cant do somthing. 1 time doesnt mean jack and I hate it when people try to use stuff like that to bring down a person, its low and it just shows ignorance. Â agree and if spelling is that important Then why in the world do you see some that instead of typing you they incert a U instead I mean talk about killing a language and showing ignorance of course you can get IESPELL here http://www.iespell.com/ sits in your browser and corrects your spelling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 well said stmason, I definatly agree w/ alot of what you said. The U.S is the worlds police, and I guess people don't like us.....for the alot of the same reasons we don't like police in this country.  Maybe we should goto war w/ Iraq, maybe it is the best choice overall. But I still don't think we should do it w/o the support of the U.N, that's just asking for more trouble. And maybe they should support us, they should remember the past, and what we've done for the world.....but what if they don't, then what? As mighty as the US is, we can't take on 10 countrys and once, and come out unscathed......if it even comes to that.  Bush is stuck between a rock in a hard place. I'd just like to see him take his time. For whatever reason, he is coming off as blood thirsty. I just hope, whatever happens, in the end, the homeland remains safe. Oh that's bull***t!  Whatever US does it's for the freedom, for the human rights blah, blah, blah...  The police should treat everyone the same. That's not happening. We should invade Iraq because they are disobeying UN resolutions etc... What about Israel ?  What's the difference ?  Why can't some country have nuclear weapon and Israel can get it from us ?  Would you like a cop who treats someone else better than you ?  I don't think so, well I know I wouldn't.  We shouldn't get involved in every little conflict in every little country. We don't need more enemies, and right now we need to take care of our economy. And one more thing, we're just one country that's it. We can't make laws and expect from other nations to respect those. We can't use UN when is working for us, and ignore 'em when they are against us. That's not right!  And what about that uh...National Tribunal for War Crimes ?  You can't do that, it doesn't make any sense. What if China says: well if you convict one of our soldiers we'll bomb the . out of your country ?  And we are not the strongest nation in the world, and soon we won't be the strongest economy in the world.  China would kick our . anytime! They need no weapons, they can just swarm the place and we're done  And Bush is making us look really bad...each day more and more people hate us and that's not good. The more enemies you've got the bigger chance of trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVE Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 What are you smoking man? Â Plus that Hitler quote in your sig doesn't help you out much either. Â We aren't the ones showing how easy it is to ignore the U.N. Iraq is, they were told last year to disarm or be disarmed forcefully, and look Saddam Insane just sits there and does nothing. He already proved the U.N. is a joke. It's just a place where other countries can decide whether or not they agree what the other countries do. They don't even want to enforce what they impose. Â You say every day more people hate us, that's because we are l337 45 h311! Countries that are falling behind don't like us because we can prosper and they are struggling. Look at France, they used to be a world power, now they just eat cheese and complain about the Americans. Russia is against us because they always freeze their a$$ off in the winter. Everybody hates the #1 guy because they all want to be #1. Very few people are cool with us being as l33t as we are. England seems with us, well at least Tony Blair does. Â And Isreal does not get nuclear weapons from us. We sell conventional military hardware like planes and firearms and stuff. Isreal uses it for defense purposes only. They don't invade neighboring countries and kill their own people like Saddam Insane does. Â The economy started going downhill toward the end of the Clinton administration. Democrats love to spend tax dollars, and oh did Clinton spend. What do you think got us headed toward this recession? 8 years of Clinton and Gores spending. What do you think got the Clinton administration all that money? The tax cuts during the Reagan administration... Hell Ronald Reagan was able to cut taxes and increase the size and spending on our military. He was able to do both! Changes in economic policy take years to be felt. You can't just say "Okay let's cut taxes." Then all the American people have thousands of extra dollars to spend away and jump start the econmy...It takes time for the money to trickle down. Look at low mortgage rates, it has incouraged more homebuilding and buying, look at all the resources needed to build a house. All the raw materials had to come from somewhere like a lumber yard, the drywall, the concrete, the paint, the electricians, the plumbing, building homes employes a lot of people. That's why low mortgage rates might not seem like a big deal now but in a few years, all those homes will be occupied and the people inside paying taxes, property taxes, buying from local stores, working for local companies, it's a giant boost. That's why recessions don't just disappear overnight. It takes time, patience, and discipline. Why do you think the Bush administration is cool about it? They got a handle on it, they're keeping dibs on things, there letting their decisions run it's course and see how things fan out. Â And last, all that crap you said about China, they aren't that stupid. The Chinese wouldn't say, "well if you convict one of our soldiers we'll bomb the . out of your country ?" The Chinese aren't stupid, they know what they're doing. The Chinese know that if they take care of themselves and don't do anything stupid they'll be fine. It's all good. They leave us alone, we leave them alone. It's that simple. They barely even have a Navy. Are they just going to fly bombers for thousands of miles over the Pacific, where we have Aircraft carriers, bases in Japan and several other Pacific Islands? They would be vulnerable so easily, it's just a stupid idea. I'm not downplaying the Chinese, they got their act together and their doing their thing. More power to them, as long as they do their thing and don't mess with us why would we have a problem? I think you've been playing Command & Conquer Generals too long... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaTeD-R Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 LoL @ User  d00d, how you gonna quote me and say it's bullpoop, then agree w/ what I just said!?! I clearly stated that other countrys probably don't like us, just like we don't care too much for our own cops. Then you say "would you like cops that treat someone else better than you"....no. Cops do that hear, just like we're doing it to the rest of the world.  & China can kick our butts.....LoL. No nation in the world can take on the U.S 1on1.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) And Isreal does not get nuclear weapons from us. We sell conventional military hardware like planes and firearms and stuff. Isreal uses it for defense purposes only. Do I have to comment this one ? Â They occupied Palestine, parts of Egypt and Syria. Until recently they were in southern Lebanon... Â Â That doesn't seem defensive to me. Â Â China can kick our butts.....LoL. Edited March 13, 2003 by d3bruts1d Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3bruts1d Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 User, can we try and post everything we have to say in one message, instead of spreading t out across several please? Â I combined your three messages into one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolcomPimp Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) I have to write this first b4 I go any further, I got up 2 RVE's post after User.... First off I'd like to say thanks to Ronin for what he said about my 'opnions' (my opinions are facts )... He had some good points in his post too and I'd really like to see that thing w/ Tony Blair... I think most students are stupid and have their views all wrong, no matter which side they support, but there are a few who have the right idea and that kid sounds like he's one of the few.... Â As to user, you're an idiot... Comparing us having nuclear weapons w/ Iraq.... Â Who do you feel more comfortable w/ a gun? A child or an adult??? A cop or a criminal??? Â You make prejudice decisions w/ out even actually looking at the facts and why the situation is in the first place... you're a moron, sorry to say... People act like war is the problem, it's the answer to a problem which is very big in the middle east... we've let the region become a heaven of hate... There's almost no democracy in the region and the governments are controlled by a select few, and you stand up for them??? hmmmm sounds a lot like hitler to me, taking a look at the problem and blaming it on somethin else, blaming it on the ppl who are right.... The German's thought they were right, and that they should kill everyone else and take over Europe through lies and murder, only because they had a leader who had public opinion on his side and lied to the world and his own country... made them feel special when they werent... they were only germans, but they were used just like the ppl in the middle east are being used, and how us daring to try and create peace makes us bad so the worlds public is being fooled to make the world's biggest heaven of peace and freedom look like we're the bad guys.... It's funny how you have not seen one protester say a word about the governments in the middle east... they avoid it, because they know they are wrong and have no points they can make to prove that any of the governments are in any way right.... they instead make the ppl look like victims from us, when they were being victimized by their leaderships who do not represent them.... Â One more thing... ya know they should just call it world war 3... cause it's the same crap.... industrialization... The middle east is jelious because we are a world power and they are not, they have france on their side because they are no longer a world power and same w/ germany and russia (thought hey have other reasons too)..... Back in the WW's, the whole reason it started was because of the situation the other countries were in was bad, and they were jelious of the thriving britain and us... same story now... did we do anything to them? no... it's all to try and hold us down and gain leverage against the world powers... if they can't beat us w/ their economy, they'll try and beat us w/ their weapons, and their propaganda... Edited March 13, 2003 by VolcomPimp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVE Posted March 13, 2003 Posted March 13, 2003 Egypt took control of the Suez canal and closed it down. They basically took it and denied it's use to anybody but themselves. So the Israeli's slapped the taste out their mouths and took the Suez canal back. They kept the situation under control until arrangements were made. That's why they were in Egypt. They may seem like they're being on the attacking side, but they attack in response to events. Some Palestinian terrorists blows up a bus, and they get intel on where they came from and where others might be, so then they react to the new info and slap up some other terrorists. They live in a much different world pertaining to security. 24/7 around the clock they never know if that guy selling apples is about to explode with C-4 strapped to his chest. They are the only Jewish state on the planet and they have their right to exist, the U.S. assists them so they can defend themselves. Isreal is a democratic state as well, and it works, they like their system. They are a peaceful democracy willing to throw it down when push comes to shove. If we gave absolutely no assistance to Isreal, all the Muslum nations surrounding them would've overthrow the gov't and they wouldn't exist anymore. We helped them out to the point where they can defend themselves pretty darn well. Now they can do their thing without us holding their hand. They are willing to do the dirty work, not like some other countries who have no spine. Â And you think simply because China's population is larger, they would win? It's not all about numbers. With superior weaponry and tactics, you can defeat a foe of many more numbers. They have some kick a$$ technology too, but think strategically, not just numbers wise. So they have more people...The Germans had millions more people than England in WW2, and the Germans lost the Battle of Britain. Why? They made bad tactical decisions. Think about how the Chinese would have to bring the fight to us. How would they get here? We already have military in Japan, South Korea, and aircraft carriers in the Pacific. We already have military near China. China doesn't have anything close to us. How will they bring the fight to our shores, they have almost no Navy. Their strength lies in ground forces and their Air Force. So if they do have a bomber than can reach our shores (which I don't think they have) how would they get here, they could be intercepted dozens of times before getting here. So what if they have a million troops in their active army, how would they get the troops here? They can't ship anything, we got Navy and planes out the yang than can prevent that kind of stuff. And the Chinese would never be so ignorant as to purposely launch a nuke at us. It would mean the destruction of both our countries. Â And you badmouth Microsoft, you probably use Windows, a Microsoft Intellimouse and Interet Explorer. A lot of Microsoft haters say they hate them, then you look at their comps and they use Microsoft products still... Â I saw that MTV Q&A show with Tony Blair, it was pretty cool. All kinds of topics were covered and Tony Blair handled everything like an all pro. Everything they said he always knew what to say. He was educated on every topic of discussion, and had an intelligent and logical stance and answer to it all. You get to know Tony Blair a lot more. I thought he was cool before and I liked him, so after seeing it he's even cooler now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaTeD-R Posted March 14, 2003 Posted March 14, 2003 1.4 billion vs 400million huh.....ok, where to start  Lets see those 1.4 billion try to get over here. They wouldn't even get within 50 miles of the coast. There'd be some really fat sharks out there after eating all the remains (if any) of the people that were blown up on a ship trying to invade the U.S.  If they come by air, we'll win that battle as well.  Those 1.4 billion people can't stop an atomic bomb falling from the sky. Our military is superior by far, and the war really wouldn't even be close. If there ever was one.  I'm done w/ this topic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolcomPimp Posted March 14, 2003 Posted March 14, 2003 Also you have to figure in which of them were to fight... you cant just send millions of ppl to battle who dont know how to fight at the heat of the moment... and who says they'd all want to be sympathetic to the cause??? what if we wanted to liberate them and millions were on our side??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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