NVIDIA to kill GTX-series?

[ocre]

To be honest, I think there were many reasons to do this, and not all were configuration issues. As i said before above all is ATI deciding to boycott physX, deny it publicly in statements, turned down the offer privately, and then bashing Nvidia for not just giving away to them. Then there were most likely issues that wouldve required nvidia QA department to go out and buy ATI gpus just to test, and i am sure nvidia wasnt happy about the fact that ATI was absolutely zero percent behind nvidia and physX. And the last one i will say, not the least in importance by far. Well the fact that nvidia just cant really compete with ATI's 5800series right now and nvidia is trying to have some kinda edge while they rush to get the gtx300 ready. This is of course one that all ati fanboys will go crazy on, but actually from nvidias stand point, what else are they supposed to do? They cant drop the gtx's any more in price, their profit margin is almost non existent already. they are in a pickle. And if it were up to some here, they should just give up and burn in hell, but they have to buy some time until they can compete again. By all means they have invested many dollars in physx and them alone are the only company that got developers even implementing it. I think they are trying to exploit this at a most desperate time, and it is a desperate move. They are in a pickle, and too many pray for them to die away. But its not like they have went through so much trouble to prevent current ATI/nvidia owners from having physX after they already purchased a card. They are not trying to punish those ppl. And i hate to hear that ivi couldnt get the older driver and physX update to work, but i have seen and helped many do this and have no problems at all.

 

So for many reasons they decided, and if you look around the net you will see they make no secret of this:

 

"For a variety of reasons

[IVIYTH0S]

To be honest, I think there were many reasons to do this, and not all were configuration issues. As i said before above all is ATI deciding to boycott physX, deny it publicly in statements, turned down the offer privately, and then bashing Nvidia for not just giving away to them. Then there were most likely issues that wouldve required nvidia QA department to go out and buy ATI gpus just to test, and i am sure nvidia wasnt happy about the fact that ATI was absolutely zero percent behind nvidia and physX. And the last one i will say, not the least in importance by far. Well the fact that nvidia just cant really compete with ATI's 5800series right now and nvidia is trying to have some kinda edge while they rush to get the gtx300 ready. This is of course one that all ati fanboys will go crazy on, but actually from nvidias stand point, what else are they supposed to do? They cant drop the gtx's any more in price, their profit margin is almost non existent already. they are in a pickle. And if it were up to some here, they should just give up and burn in hell, but they have to buy some time until they can compete again. By all means they have invested many dollars in physx and them alone are the only company that got developers even implementing it. I think they are trying to exploit this at a most desperate time, and it is a desperate move. They are in a pickle, and too many pray for them to die away. But its not like they have went through so much trouble to prevent current ATI/nvidia owners from having physX after they already purchased a card. They are not trying to punish those ppl. And i hate to hear that ivi couldnt get the older driver and physX update to work, but i have seen and helped many do this and have no problems at all.

 

So for many reasons they decided, and if you look around the net you will see they make no secret of this:

 

"For a variety of reasons – some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated Physx with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non- NVIDIA GPUs"

 

The business aspect involves my last reason and of course it is also an attempt to put pressure on ATI so that maybe they will give in and attempt ot work with Nvidia for physX. ATI will probably never put up a dime because they dont have to and their pitty me story is bound to get them a free GPU accelerated adavnced physx via openCL eventually. But even still, that doesnt mean it will turn into a standard, even if its free, will work on any GPU, and open to all developers it doesnt mean its gonna be a standard. reasons?

for 1 nvidia physX is better then free for developers because they work very close to them and help code the physX at no cost. and for

2 its just gonna be many yrs before dx11 cards are the most popular

3. windows xp is still 70% of all OS's (including even all linX's) and XP will never support DX11 and thus never support the DX11 GPU based physics of the future

 

We are talking about yrs before something comes around and knocks physX out, but that isnt stopping ATI from trying to get a free alternative. But the most simplest and easiest thing would be for ATI just to accept physX and start investing some of their money too. Then all ATI owners could get physX via drivers no matter what OS they are on. Nvidia wants to keep pressure on ATI so as to get them on board, and ATI is the hold up. Nvidia will keep this pressure as long as they have an advantage, and i see nothing wrong with them trying to do this. ATI could invest some of their money too. Why do ATI fans not see this, why do they hate nvidia for what ATI turned down. PhysX isnt free and it does cost money, its new technology that will change the face of gaming. ATI should be working with Nvidia not against them. Nvidia still makes statements as to the fact that the offer for ATI physX is still out and they dont know why ATI feels their customers dont want it. Its not like ATI is even making counter offers. if they have, they wouldve been all loud about it, saying nvidia turned them down. Anyway that may be out there, but the truth is there are a lot of politics involved, and ATI owners should question why their money given isnt giving them anything close to physX. ATI isnt an underdog anymore. They are doing well. They could do more in this, instead of crying. If they put up some money too, ATI would have physX or an alternative. I just wish their fans would see this and speak out, and not against Nvidia for investing in something and getting results.........I guess love is blind, lol

I apologize to nvidia that the 4870x2 was a much better deal then anything else in it's price range but I deserve my $60 dollars of 8800GT.

 

I can't wait for the day when I install drivers for my ati and drivers for my nvidia and it just works without telling the drivers to wait while I apply a patch before they restart my computer.

 

This doesn't push ATI to do anything because it's just wrong. I can see why you'd think that but people aren't going to blame ati because their nvidia physx don't work with their nvidia card.

Edited October 18, 2009 by IVIYTH0S

[tkrow21]

then bashing Nvidia for not just giving away to them.

 

Never has ATI done this.

 

Then there were most likely issues that wouldve required nvidia QA department to go out and buy ATI gpus just to test, and i am sure nvidia wasnt happy about the fact that ATI was absolutely zero percent behind nvidia and physX.

 

Nope, it was an unsupported configuration, which means Nvidia didn't make it or test it.

 

But its not like they have went through so much trouble to prevent current ATI/nvidia owners from having physX after they already purchased a card.

 

Yes they did; that's exactly what they blocked.

 

ATI will probably never put up a dime because they dont have to and their pitty me story is bound to get them a free GPU accelerated adavnced physx via openCL eventually.

 

You're really misinformed. ATI is currently working with developers to get a non-proprietary standard for physics. The people that won't have to pay to use this are the developers for games. Nvidia gets money from PhysX when a game developer pays them to use it. However, ATI won't get money from an open standard, and they are paying money to develop it.

 

Why do ATI fans not see this, why do they hate nvidia for what ATI turned down.

 

ATI never turned down Nvidia's option of using their cards as an independent PPU along another graphics card.

 

If they put up some money too, ATI would have physX or an alternative.

 

They currently are working on and investing on an alternative, for quite a while now.

[Bosco]

ATI has been working on something for years and have produced nothing. They were going with their own version of PhysX and now thats been scrapped because they feel open source is better. Hmmm how things changes because they said the exact opposite not to long ago.

 

Until ATI has something its empty promises. They talk about whats coming what the future holds but there is not one thing that can be tested to prove it so with that I say whatever ATI put your money where you mouth is. You have not provided anyone with anything until you do I don't expect to many developers jumping on their bandwagon.

[ocre]

Never has ATI done this.

 

 

 

 

 

You're really misinformed. ATI is currently working with developers to get a non-proprietary standard for physics. The people that won't have to pay to use this are the developers for games. Nvidia gets money from PhysX when a game developer pays them to use it. However, ATI won't get money from an open standard, and they are paying money to develop it.

 

quote from chris hook, AMD Global Communications.

 

"Proprietary standards punish gamers, not industry standards like DirectX11. Why is NVIDIA punishing gamers by putting in proprietary and closed standards like PhysX in games......... GPU accelerated game physics will only be accepted in the marketplace when industry standards are embraced......"

 

I dont know what else he could be refering to with statements like this other then Nvidia should just give away physx. If it wasnt for nvidia's mega dollar investment there would be no movement at all. Wer wouldnt be seeing any physX titles like today, this is a good movement, its no a bad thing. Somebody invest alot to make it happen, and it wasnt ATI, but here you see they complain and say the opposite, like nvidia is punishing gamers, this is insane. They are they ones paying to make it a reality yet accused of punishing gamers. They have put up our money we gave them for gpus and making this happen. ATI could have done this too, where is their money going? do you see this side. How can you blame the only company making something happen atm for punishing gamers when ATI decided against physX on their GPUs. When actually ATI is all at fault. There would be nothing if nvidia didnt make it happen, yet they are punishing gamers? its warped logic

 

 

And sorry sir, you are wrong about nvidia getting money from physX when game developers use it. Thats completely wrong. Nvidia is giving away physX to developers for free out of their pocket. Not only that, they are helping developers implement it in their games with teams of effort all for free at no cost, with the money that they make off their nvidia card sales. They invested so much into physX to make it happen, and its only this tiny bit far. But it is happening, without ATI spending a dime. and ATI sits back and complains about it! Yes it would be better if everyone has it, but geez i guess nvidia should put up all their money only, huh! that seems fair.

Edited October 19, 2009 by ocre

[IVIYTH0S]

quote from chris hook, AMD Global Communications.

 

"Proprietary standards punish gamers, not industry standards like DirectX11. Why is NVIDIA punishing gamers by putting in proprietary and closed standards like PhysX in games......... GPU accelerated game physics will only be accepted in the marketplace when industry standards are embraced......"

 

I dont know what else he could be refering to with statements like this other then Nvidia should just give away physx. If it wasnt for nvidia's mega dollar investment there would be no movement at all. Wer wouldnt be seeing any physX titles like today, this is a good movement, its no a bad thing. Somebody invest alot to make it happen, and it wasnt ATI, but here you see they complain and say the opposite, like nvidia is punishing gamers, this is insane. They are they ones paying to make it a reality yet accused of punishing gamers. They have put up our money we gave them for gpus and making this happen. ATI could have done this too, where is their money going? do you see this side. How can you blame the only company making something happen atm for punishing gamers when ATI decided against physX on their GPUs. When actually ATI is all at fault. There would be nothing if nvidia didnt make it happen, yet they are punishing gamers? its warped logic

 

 

And sorry sir, you are wrong about nvidia getting money from physX when game developers use it. Thats completely wrong. Nvidia is giving away physX to developers for free out of their pocket. Not only that, they are helping developers implement it in their games with teams of effort all for free at no cost, with the money that they make off their nvidia card sales. They invested so much into physX to make it happen, and its only this tiny bit far. But it is happening, without ATI spending a dime. and ATI sits back and complains about it! Yes it would be better if everyone has it, but geez i guess nvidia should put up all their money only, huh! that seems fair.

yeah....but I'm supporting their cause by buying the 8800GT, and therefore and entitled to physx. That's the simple truth, I'm not saying I can't get physx support now but it should be easier. They have no right to try and prevent me from not getting what I payed for. If it wasn't for that awesome person who cracked the drivers, I may have just gave nvidia money when they didn't deserve it because for me, my card purchased for them isn't doing jack because they say it doesn't.

 

We aren't saying that nvidia should let us ati users use physx on our ati gpus, but if I buy an nvidia card, it should damn well work without any attempt at disabling my experience.

Edited October 19, 2009 by IVIYTH0S

[ocre]

yeah....but I'm supporting their cause by buying the 8800GT, and therefore and entitled to physx. That's the simple truth, I'm not saying I can't get physx support now but it should be easier. They have no right to try and prevent me from not getting what I payed for. If it wasn't for that awesome person who cracked the drivers, I may have just gave nvidia money when they didn't deserve it because for me, my card purchased for them isn't doing jack because they say it doesn't.

 

We aren't saying that nvidia should let us ati users use physx on our ati gpus, but if I buy an nvidia card, it should damn well work without any attempt at disabling my experience.

 

yes i agree with you on that, it was a shame they did do that. I think it was a desperate move. And considering the circumstances its still not a smart move for they ppl that already had this setup were directly effected. I think that was a trade off in their thinking, and they did leave the older drivers available. But you must see both sides. It could be six months after the 5870 before the gtx300 series is available. Their ambitious project was a little too big to bite off at one time, and now they are in a little bit of a pickle. I am not defending their decision, nor do i think it was right. Its sad to see this move of desperation. They are just trying to give ppl a reason to buy the few cards they have in the warehouses. They havent been making much profit from those cards anyway. The 4800 series was killing them, they just couldnt compete in a price war and make profit. Now with the 5800 its even worse.

 

So thats the setup, they were trying to give reasons for ppl to buy nvidia in the now. in the moment. The moment that they arent looking so competitive in. It all led up to this. But this isnt the end of the line. I dont expect them to really push this ATI physX disabling scheme. I dont think it was to punish anyone. They are just trying to save their own ars. And its a desperate move. This is the only edge they had atm, and they are exploiting it. Many ppl want to see nvidia go under, i think they are ambitious and they have pushed with a little too much force this time. But i do see results, and i do see their errors, but i still think they are doing a lot in a short period and i do respect that.

 

ATI has the upper hand now, and its a very large upperhand. Be proud of that fact. Nvidia lost a round or two. lets not wish death on them

Edited October 20, 2009 by ocre

[IVIYTH0S]

yes i agree with you on that, it was a shame they did do that. I thick it was a desperate move. And considering the circumstances its still not a smart move for they ppl that already had this setup were directly effected. I think that was a trade off in their thinking, and they did leave the older drivers available. But you must see both sides. It could be six months after the 5870 before the gtx300 series is available. Their ambitious project was a little too big to bite off at one time, and now they are in a little bit of a pickle. I am not defending their decision, nor do i think it was right. Its sad to see this move of desperation. They are just trying to give ppl a reason to buy the few cards they have in the warehouses. They havent been making much profit from those cards anyway. The 4800 series was killing them, they just couldnt compete in a price war and make profit. Now with the 5800 its even worse.

 

So thats the setup, they were trying to give reasons for ppl to buy nvidia in the now. in the moment. The moment they they arent looking so competitive it. It all lead up to this. But this isnt the end of the line. I dont expect them to really push this ATI physX disabling scheme. I dont think it was to punish anyone. They are just trying to save their own ars. And its a desperate move. This is the only edge they had atm, and they are exploiting it. Many ppl want to see nvidia go under, i think they are ambitios and they have push with a little too much force this time. But i do see results, and i do see their errors, but i still think they are doing a lot in a short period and i do respect that.

 

ATI has the upper hand now, and its a very large upperhand. Be proud of that fact. Nvidia lost a round or two. lets not wish death on them

agreed, I hope fermi is affordable. That card will have monstrous power

[ocre]

agreed, I hope fermi is affordable. That card will have monstrous power

I dont see how it really can be, man thats a beast. They claim it can scale down to cheaper models, but how. Cache is expensive in itself, are they gonna have cache-less fermis? It seems too ambitious to me, and i hope they do have a better plan then i got visioned. I think they went after intel with this design, but ATI has really got a good sound money making product. Nothing about fermi sounds cheap. I do believe it will pack a mega punch. But in these times, money is tight. they had better have a good way of making these cheap and profitable. But its a monster of a design, ambitious all the way around. I cant see them being affordable. But maybe their is a way to build up to the fermi from buget to the big ones, all in pricing brackets with less to more features. I just dont see any cheapness to the design. I feel nvidia bit off a little more then any company would like to chew. Maybe they can pull it off. I guess they thought its all or nothing. Thats why i worry about them running out of road. Even their own actions show their desperate. I see it a little more serious i guess.

I am proud of AMD, and worried about nvidia,

Edited October 20, 2009 by ocre

[IVIYTH0S]

I dont see how it really can be, man thats a beast. They claim it can scale down to cheaper models, but how. Cache is expensive in itself, are they gonna have cache-less fermis? It seems too ambitious to me, and i hope they do have a better plan then i got visioned. I think they went after intel with this design, but ATI has really got a good sound money making product. Nothing about fermi sounds cheap. I do believe it will pack a mega punch. But in these times, money is tight. they had better have a good way of making these cheap and profitable. But its a monster of a design, ambitious all the way around. I cant see them being affordable. But maybe their is a way to build up to the fermi from buget to the big ones, all in pricing brackets with less to more features. I just dont see any cheapness to the design. I feel nvidia bit off a little more then any company would like to chew. Maybe they can pull it off. I guess they thought its all or nothing. Thats why i worry about them running out of road. Even their own actions show their desperate. I see it a little more serious i guess.

I am proud of AMD, and worried about nvidia,

they should just blindfold an engineer, give him a pair of safety scissors and just cut the fermi into 4 pieces, then arrange them according to their size. and wah-la, we have the new 300 series division

 

but in all seriousness I see the down scaling being unimaginably difficult, considering they JUST released down scaled versions of their 200 series cards...and they are bad, hope that was the opposite of what's to come

Edited October 20, 2009 by IVIYTH0S

[Bosco]

Tommorrow shall be an intresting day for us press guys got a big Nvidia conference

[IVIYTH0S]

Tommorrow shall be an intresting day for us press guys got a big Nvidia conference

sweet I hope some curtains get peeked under, and some whispers come down the lane