jammin Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Ok, so if we were to think about implementing some kind of fine for owners who have "lost" their guns, what would the pros and cons be? Or maybe punishing people for losing guns wouldn't be the best idea, maybe giving those who take care of their guns responsibly a positive incentive would be better? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewr05 Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) That involves the "list" problem as wel Also that would mean that someone comes into my house to "make sure" I haven't lost any of my possessions. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" your not molesting your children. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" you aren't abusing anyone. How about if the government installs a chip into your car to "make sure" you aren't speeding. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" you have no illegal drugs on the premises. The list could go on... Edited February 8, 2009 by Andrewr05 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kash Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 That involves the "list" problem as wel Also that would mean that someone comes into my house to "make sure" I haven't lost any of my possessions. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" your not molesting your children. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" you aren't abusing anyone. How about if the government installs a chip into your car to "make sure" you aren't speeding. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" you have no illegal drugs on the premises. The list could go on... Some of those things are already being done. If child abuse has been reported to the child services agency, it will be investigated continuously until they are satisfied that there is nothing bad going on. Cars are being equipped with black boxes that will allow insurance companies to determine whether you've been speeding if you get into an accident. The DEA makes spot checks in areas known for drug trafficking. It's already being done, welcome to the party Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJR Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Some of those things are already being done. If child abuse has been reported to the child services agency, it will be investigated continuously until they are satisfied that there is nothing bad going on. Cars are being equipped with black boxes that will allow insurance companies to determine whether you've been speeding if you get into an accident. The DEA makes spot checks in areas known for drug trafficking. It's already being done, welcome to the party Check this one out: http://www.dailytech.com/Whistleblower+Say...rticle14038.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_bowtie Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 That involves the "list" problem as wel Also that would mean that someone comes into my house to "make sure" I haven't lost any of my possessions. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" your not molesting your children. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" you aren't abusing anyone. How about if the government installs a chip into your car to "make sure" you aren't speeding. How about if the government comes into your home on a bimonthly basis to "make sure" you have no illegal drugs on the premises. The list could go on... that would be nice but....if no one did anything wrong the law enforcement would be out of a job.... this a society where we know there are bad but we use that to our advantage...this is how we pay cops and lawyers and judges... without law breakers you'd have no need for any of the above...boy that would be great huh..? in the USA.... they will never ban guns.... they will never stop drugs... they will never stop crime... they wont do anything that stops the money flow...they make alot of money off these directly or indirectly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJR Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 they will never ban guns.... The Clinton (assault rifle) BAN that was allowed to lapse because it was proven it had no beneficial effect what so ever, is being considered for reinstatement (permanently) by our current administration. No, it's not a total gun ban, but why reinstate something that has been proven not to work. Just to get some guns? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewr05 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Some of those things are already being done. If child abuse has been reported to the child services agency, it will be investigated continuously until they are satisfied that there is nothing bad going on.Yes, if something specific to that child (or the abuser children) is going on.Not "a child was abused so lets check everyones child within a 100 mile radius." If a gun was found then thats what would essentially occur... Without my consent or without due cause no one has the right to "look for" anything in my house. Cars are being equipped with black boxes that will allow insurance companies to determine whether you've been speeding if you get into an accident.I'm talking about the government, what a company does to a vehicle that you allow is irrelevant. The DEA makes spot checks in areas known for drug trafficking.Which is a gateway to it occurring to everyone at all times. and I'm not saying all these things don't occur on occasion when they see fit, I was referring to them doing as stated "bimonthly" sweeps of everyone and everything. Would you like that? I'm not saying its a reality at this point it was just my way of implying that people coming into your home and "making sure" that your possessions are still there is just as wrong. that would be nice but....if no one did anything wrong the law enforcement would be out of a job.... this a society where we know there are bad but we use that to our advantage...this is how we pay cops and lawyers and judges... without law breakers you'd have no need for any of the above...boy that would be great huh..? in the USA.... they will never ban guns.... they will never stop drugs... they will never stop crime... they wont do anything that stops the money flow...they make alot of money off these directly or indirectly... Oh I agree. Crime is unstoppable be it petty or heinous... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Yes, if something specific to that child (or the abuser children) is going on.Not "a child was abused so lets check everyones child within a 100 mile radius." If a gun was found then thats what would essentially occur... Without my consent or without due cause no one has the right to "look for" anything in my house. That's a slightly strange response to a hypothetical situation isn't it? I believe when it was first brought up, it was put forward as a partially formed idea anyway. So it just seems strange to say what would happen, when we essentially have total control of the idea at this stage. So if you were going to implement a way providing an incentive or disincentive for people who cared / didn't care for their weapons properly, what would you do? Is there a way you could do that you would be happy with, or would you not do it at all? Maybe you would go the other way and loosen some restrictions? The good thing about discussing ideas is that you can suggest anything you want. Then we lose the suggestions that we don't think will work, and keep the good stuff. Obviously different people will have different ideas on what will / won't work, but as long as it's discussed in a constructive manner people are generally happy to make concessions and see things more clearly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Camaro Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 We can't even keep people locked in 8x10 cells from obtaining drugs, alcohol, all sorts of improvised weapons and even homemade firearms. How can anyone expect gun registration, spot checks, and other "common sense control" measures or even bans to keep bad people from getting guns in a so called "free" society? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 We can't even keep people locked in 8x10 cells from obtaining drugs, alcohol, all sorts of improvised weapons and even homemade firearms. How can anyone expect gun registration, spot checks, and other "common sense control" measures or even bans to keep bad people from getting guns in a so called "free" society? A very valid point I feel actually. Of course, where there is a will, there really is a way; but then prisoners obtaining illegal substances and weapons is a bigger problem altogether - usually pointing towards lacking security measures or insider assistance. But again, this could go back to the societal issue at hand that has been mentioned in prior posts. Going back to my point of being punished for 'losing' or misplacing a weapon. I'm surprised a big deal has been made! If someone wants to pretend a gun was stolen when it was in fact lost (through sheer foolishness or otherwise), then they would have to file a report with the police to obtain a crime reference number. If there are no signs or evidence of theft, then that puts the claim in doubt. However, it would still be a useful method of making sure that weapons that are previously 'unaccounted for' are at least known about. There are flaws, of course. It's a shame (as already mentioned) that people are so ready to pick out the flaws, before the potential benefits. I'm still intrigued to see those who are good at finding problems, to suggest new propositions other than 'just leave it as it is', because it sounds like that just won't happen with the noises that seem to be made by the Government over time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I'm still intrigued to see those who are good at finding problems, to suggest new propositions other than 'just leave it as it is', because it sounds like that just won't happen with the noises that seem to be made by the Government over time. I don't think the "leave it as it is" argument can be completely discredited. As long as there is reasoning behind it rather than blind resistance to change then I don't see why it wouldn't be a valid position. There may be other ways of reducing gun crime and accidental deaths without actually changing laws on gun control for example. If you felt that current laws weren't properly enforced and that should be the focus, that would also be acceptable, as would if you simply felt that current figures related to gun control were just fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verran Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I wouldn't support these gun "audits" as they're being proposed. I see the value in them. I see the good you're trying to accomplish, but for me the cost is too high. Either you have law enforcement officers at your home checking in on you for no fault of your own or you have gun owners carrying their whole arsenal into a government building to check them in. Either way, it's not good in my opinion. The idea of "lets make sure nothing's been stolen from you because if it has it's best for all of us to know" is great, but I can't think of a reasonable way to make it work. The thought of police coming to my house on a regular basis just because I own a little pistol or something sounds much too "guilty until proven innocent". Besides, the system doesn't even really work without some way of serial numbering every gun. If we could find a way to uniquely tag every gun then it would not only benefit law enforcement, but it would greatly assist in getting stolen guns back to their owners. But how can you do it in a way that can't be removed? I wish I could think of a way to make it work, but anything I can think of could just as easily be removed upon theft of the weapon. They're systems that I very much want to work, but I can't come up with an implementation where either one really does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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