Stay Away Pt 2

[Guest ecthlipsis]

Because that last thread got closed (not that I mind), here's the follow up. The overwhelming consensus is that this is not Vista related, and in fact user error, drivers, hardware, or some other problem. Well let me explain a few details then.

 

With every game, I patch to the newest version first. If that doesn't work properly, I patch to the version under it (IE previous patch).

 

Windows is set to auto-download updates and I install them every time new ones are available.

 

Next, I always update my GFX drivers every 3-4 days, so I highly doubt that's the problem.

 

My OC is totally stable, and if it is somehow the OC, then something is really wrong. I can run Orthos and Prime 95 overnight without getting a single issue or error, and I have never once had F@H crash once, even when it will be running for a week straight. Also, my GFX card is at stock speeds and not OC'ed at all. My vcore temp never exceeds 51C even under Orthos.

 

With most of these scenarios, many other people are experiencing these issues as well. For example, it was common for people to have huge issues with STALKER if they had an 8800 and Vista. The common issue was that NOTHING would be rendered visible but the sky. The fix was to not use AA at all. The game didn't suffer from crashing. Google "STALKER Sky" or "STALKER Vista" and I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

 

With Gothic 3, Vista isn't the problem but does compound them. The game itself is bugged to hell and has some major memory issues. People on XP experience many problems too, but people on Vista pretty much just can't play it 100% of the time. Google it and see what I mean.

 

BF 2142 is obviously bugged to hell as well, but Vista also compounds the problems, as a quick Google will reveal that the only people having problems with the 1.25 patch are Vista users. Do the search yourself before you dismiss it as my lack of competence.

 

With Dark Messiah, I have no idea what the problem is. I found many Vista users with the same problem, but it was no epidemic. I also found no solution to the crashing. This is the one I have looked into the least, though, as it just happened last night.

 

F.E.A.R. played pretty well, and wasn't a big deal, but I did experience stability issues that I never had on XP so I listed it. The game would crash randomly and I still can't figure out the trigger. Sometimes I could play for hours with no crash, sometimes it would crash 5 minutes after a load. The game was still easy to play through and it wasn't a big deal.

 

Also, GRAW has some minor stability issues, too. My cousin has pretty much the exact same hardware as me, but he's on XP. When we were lanning I had probably 4 crashes that night and he had 0.

 

Some games played 100% fine with no hitches at all, like Resident Evil 4, Prey, and Doom 3, but these have been the minority.

 

So to everyone that so quickly assumed I was being naive and too lazy to diagnose the real problem, what do you suggest? I certainly don't see what more I could have done. I test my OC's stability, and experienced problems before I ever did the OC. I Googled every problem I came across for a solution, I kept everything updated to the minute, and I know nothing is wrong with my hardware. So tell me... what IS the problem if not compatibility issues with Vista?

 

Perhaps I'm just extremely unlucky in my taste of games and happen to buy all the ones that DO have issues? One thing I'm sure of is that if I can't make these game run stable on Vista, I don't know how so many other people would. I'm no dunce when it comes to PC's. Feedback would be greatly appreciated, personal attacks are not. Feel free to be honest, though =)

[andrusk]

In my experience vista doesn't take as kindly to an oc'ed machine as well as xp does whether it's "stable" or not, that could be part of the problem.

[hardnrg]

try Orthos @ Blend (60% of RAM), RTHDRIBL, and F@H-SMP for 24+ hours... you get higher system load with Dual Core CPU load, high RAM usage, and 3D load all over more than overnight... you might find that 4-4-4-8 is too tight for 3D load...

 

possibly the best test for combined CPU+3D load would be 3DM05 or 3DM06 looping and Orthos... but you'd have to be a paying user of 3DMark to loop it

 

3D load is harder on the whole system including the RAM and often I've had to relax the timings for extreme 3D benching when non-3D stuff has passed flawlessly

 

it's worth considering anyway, 460 MHz @ 4-4-4-8 seems quite tight for 4 sticks of ram

[DeAdLy_MaNgO]

In my experience vista doesn't take as kindly to an oc'ed machine as well as xp does whether it's "stable" or not, that could be part of the problem.

 

I have had higher clocks on XP with more stability than with Vista at lower clocks.

[iKillSteal]

Next, I always update my GFX drivers every 3-4 days, so I highly doubt that's the problem.

New drivers every 3-4 days? How is that even possible? That could also be causing it for you. If you do a dirty uninstall(not using the driver clearing utils out there and what not) every time you update your drivers is going to screw you over at some point and it appears to have kicked in.

 

I really don't see the point in updating your drivers that much. I'm running on the old drivers that hardnrg linked me a while back and I tried the newer drivers but they didn't do jack for me. I'm sure they're more geared towards optimizing your 8800 than the old 7 series but that's still a little excessive if you ask me. Once per release sounds reasonable. Every 3-4 days is inviting disaster.

Edited June 20, 2007 by iKillSteal

[road-runner]

460 MHz @ 4-4-4-8 seems quite tight for 4 sticks of ram

OCCT failed a couple of times running 4-4-4-12 @ 425 X 9 with a all new water cooled system and 2Gb of G Skill HZ, it has not failed yet at 5-5-5-15. Running Orthos now so far so good.

Edited June 20, 2007 by road-runner

[cheesewiz6]

I believe 100% that if you run memtest86 you are going to get one or two errrors per test. When running mem test I have experienced three results.

 

You pass 100% stable no crashes.

 

One or two errors per pass runs windows but crashes in games.

 

Hundreds of errors per pass windows doesn't load.

 

Deff not an OS problem. I don't think its user error eather. But I would set ram timings to 4-4-4-10 or 4-4-4-12.

[Guest ecthlipsis]

Hmm.. so people are really suspecting the memory? I agree those are tight timings for 4 sticks, but keep in mind that the only game I've had 4 sticks for is Dark Messiah. All the others I listed I was still using my 2x1GB at 4-4-4-8. That isn't too tight for 2 sticks, yes? I got the other 2 sticks recently, largely in hopes of fixing the memory leak in BF 2142. It didn't help at all, by the way. I'll relax them to 5-5-5-12 and see what happens.

 

And about the GFX drivers, I update them every release. I simply meant I check for new drivers every few days. I have been on these GFX drivers for about 2 weeks now. Actually, I'm about due to check for the next release, lol. Also, I never use beta drivers.

 

I'll download memtest and see what happens there, too.

 

In the end I'm pretty sure a lot of this is because of Vista. Even if it isn't Vista's fault directly, such as poor GFX drivers WITH Vista, on XP I never experienced ANY of these problems and my cousin with an almost exact build doesn't either. The only differences between our builds is he has XP, E6700 and a GTX. Oh, and now I have 4gb of ram and he has 2gb, but that was pretty irrelevant.

[hardnrg]

SuperPi 32M and Memtest86+ test 8, looping (press: c, 1, 3, 8, enter, 0) are good tests for ram, 3DM01SE Lobby High, and most of 05 & 06 are also good

[Guest ecthlipsis]

One thing I do feel I need to add...

 

In response to those stating "Do you really think Microsoft would release an OS that is that buggy?"

 

The answer is not that I think they would, but rather that I know they did. I'm not speaking about Vista, this time. I had ME from the time it came out, as it came bundled with my new HP rig at the time (before I built my own rigs). It had just come out and I didn't have any choice as what OS came with it. Honestly, I was excited for the new and improved Windows anyways. ME was so buggy it was unreal, and people that had it since the early days of its' release will certainly have to agree. I still laugh thinking about the days playing Diablo 2 and watching ME go through the process of closing the game. It didn't crash... ME simply would window the game, then minimize, then close the program, lol.

 

Now, whether Vista is another ME is a different question entirely. But simply put, from my own experience with the past, it isn't terribly hard for me to picture Microsoft releasing a really buggy OS again, as they already have once. Thus, don't judge that my reason for coming to that conclusion, even if it IS incorrect (time well tell), as naivety when I have a logical assumption behind the theory. K... I feel better now. I'm done =X

 

SuperPi 32M and Memtest86+ test 8, looping (press: c, 1, 3, 8, enter, 0) are good tests for ram, 3DM01SE Lobby High, and most of 05 & 06 are also good

 

How necessary is that now that I have loosened the hell out of the timings?

[hardnrg]

testing is always necessary to determine stability... otherwise you are just guessing...

 

4 sticks are always harder to overclock than 2 sticks

[Guest ecthlipsis]

I never focused on testing the memory much, just through ORTHOS. I don't really get how to work MemTest86+, though, lol. First I suppose I'll try playing some Dark Messiah and see if it lives.

 

Edit: Well, loosening the timings certainly didn't help. I can't wait for XP to get here. I'm going to leave all settings the same and try it again then and I bet anything it will work fine.