Do You Belive In God?

[MadMax]

thats deep Calyco.

 

so your saying god is evil?

[Calyco]

I am saying with the normal view of God being all powerful and all knowing, yes God is logically evil. I am not implying that God's nature is actually evil, but that with the contemporary view, yes God would be evil. I do not believe God is evil. I believe God as actually a symbol. A symbol which people have placed values upon because they see them as being important. Feuerbach said it first I just put it in todays terms. I also readjust it for my own personal differences with Feuerbach.

[bishop245]

it seems to me every time i have a reason to believe i find more reasons o not believe

[Calyco]

There's reason to believe, just not the traditional sense.

[DavidPartay]

I do not believe in a 'logical' good, rather I believe that God DEFINES what is good. For example, as of the New Testament, Jesus said that we are simply to LOVE. Love goes far deeper than simply showing respect for your friends - love goes into self sacrifice, into doing things for other people that belittle yourself in order to honour them. Madmax - you blame God for the fact that your father CHOSE to be on drugs? Please don't blame God for man's actions. I think you need to check what you *do* actually believe. The concept of "I don't really care" isn't actually going to get you very far.

 

I am personally a fully devoted Christian, and every single day I realise there is more and more reason to believe in and follow God. After all, I have recieved healing on a few occasions after prayer, I have seen prophecies come to pass and I have friends who have done some things which are naturally impossible, but which are truly possible through God. I have seen people's lives turned around after they choose to follow God.

 

You know what? I KNOW that I'm going to Heaven when I die. There is no need for me to prove that - what I know in my heart says enough. People can choose to disbelieve me, but the thing is, there is so much to support the fact that God is real, and the bible is fact.

 

Now, if I had the time, I could in fact run you all through the white-hole theory, which I am a supporter of. But I'll just summarise it.

 

Basically, a white-hole is a black-hole in reverse. The gravity is strongest on the outside, and instead of continually growing, a white-hole is continually shrinking. Now, let's say that in the beginning, the absolute beginning, the entire form of the Universe was contained inside this white-hole. Over the 6 literal days (not 1000 years/day, or however people say) in which God created the Earth, the white-hole shrunk, and disappeared by the 7th day. Now, anyone who knows anything about science will KNOW that gravity affects time.

 

Where am I going with this? Let's assume that the Earth IS, in fact, the centre of the Universe. That is a point that needs to be assumed for this theory to work. So, the Earth is the centre of the Universe. That means that it was in the very middle of this white-hole at the dawn of time. That means that everything else AGED FASTER than Earth did during it's creation! This is a PERFECT explanation as to why the earth is less than 10000 years old, and to how we can see light from stars which would take thousands or millions of years to reach us.

 

This theory is written in the book Starlight and Time, by D. Russell Humphreys, Ph. D. A VERY good read.

 

I'll also give my own little points as to why to me, Evolution is literally impossible.

 

1. Take a look outside. Look at the trees. What do they do? They make carbon dioxide into oxygen, for us to breathe. That's a pretty impressive thing to just 'happen' from nothing. Now, have a look at the STRUCTURE of the trees. You have the heartwood, you have the bark, the leaves, and possibly flowers. Now realise there are THOUSANDS of different sorts of trees.

 

The same goes with ALL plant life.

 

2. Look at the diversity of animals in this world. Now, why are human beings the ONLY sentient race on this planet? More importantly, HOW can there be a sentient race on the planet if Evolution is fact?

 

3. Plant and Animal cells have significant differences in structure. Evolution and the Big Bang theory cannot explain how these two different cells came to be.

 

4. Science has proven that matter CANNOT be created or destroyed! Science cannot create atoms from nothing, and science cannot DESTROY atoms! Therefore, how can all these centillions of atoms which make up the world POSSIBLY have come from absolutely nothing?

 

5. The man who discovered DNA has said himself that the DNA structure is FAR TOO COMPLEX to follow through with the theories of life.

 

6. EVERY dating system which Evolutionists use is flawed - they are based on guesses, and if the item they are tracing isn't within the range of the guess, it is discarded as being illegitimate.

 

7. Have a look at the structure of your body. Look at the movement of your hand - the versatility of EVERY joint in your body. Your body did NOT happen by fluke - and there is absolutely no possible way a few billion years could make the body just happen to be the way it is. What about all the many different sorts of cells which make up parts of your body? Your mind? Your mind is not simply a part of your brain - your mind is something that is unmeasurable, it is not something you can taste or touch, or access by any humanly means other than your mind is YOU. Your mind is your soul, and evolution cannot explain the existance of souls, which frankly is something that cannot be disproven. Think about how your body works - look at your organs - heart, lungs, skin, liver, stomach. That is INCREDIBLE stuff.

 

8. What about gender? Cells are asexual, meaning they reproduce by duplicating themselves. So if all cells are asexual, then how do we have males and females?

 

9. According to science, dinosaurs roamed the earth a few million years ago. Scientists have found red blood cells in fossils from dinosaurs, meaning that those dinosaurs who carried those bones died within the last few thousand years. The bible also makes mention of dinosaurs - such as the leviathan and behemoth mentioned in Job.

 

10. The earth's position relative to the sun is absolutely perfect. One tiny bit closer, and we would fry. That same distance further, and we would freeze. Earth is not positioned by fluke, and the sun's temperate is not the way it is by fluke.

 

I do have other points, but unfortunately I am very tired and cannot remember them all but this should keep you all occupied for a bit

[MadMax]

hey i never sayid my dad did drugs. i talked to a person and they sayd their dad did drugs and she plamed god.

God only exists in a persons mind if the mind goes away that god that they belive in goes away. every person that belives in go has their own views about god so since god is a non physical thing and exists only in a pesons mind that evey pesron has their own god.

 

The whole doing imposible stuff thing i thought you said the god has no control over a humans actions and well doing thatever they are doing is an action.

 

Oh here is another one, You cant see god you cand hear god you cant smell god you cant taste god and most of all you cant feel... so god is scientificly non-physical. If it is non physical than it needs a host like the mind so it has to sit in the mind well than tell me how could god come befor the human if god needs humans to exist. so there for the egg has to come befor the Chicken. lol

 

1. The tree do it for a reasion. To survive

2.im not saying that evalution is a fact but humans might of evolved faster than any thing else or they struck uranium and got mutated

3.can god explain it

4.and your point.....

5. Here if you look at a book can you tell what the book is about. you could guess what the book is going to be about but you cant get the whole story out of it. just like with DNA if you look at dna you will be able to tell if the person is going to be black, what hair and all thet physical stuff but never the stuff inside.

6. insert point here_______

7.Yes the body is an incredible machine but the thing is that there are people out there who cant comprehend that kind of thing to be evolved becouse it just blows their mind.

8 we have males so that we could have babies and fun and so on. isn't it a sin to have . for pleasure so god would of know better than to give one person a stick and another a hole becouse you know wats gona happen its like giving a monky a granade.

9.point___________

10. Why can't it be by fluke

 

 

Good points but give them more background and proof.

[DavidPartay]

Actually they've got all the proof and background they need. Unfortunately, you haven't got anything that might be considered a witty and legitimate reply to them .

 

God is NOT a state of mind, or an object in people's minds. I never said God doesn't have control over people's actions, because He does - He simply is keeping His promise that men will always have free choice. God doesn't break His promises.

[hiph0pan0nym0usx]

hey. heres another random thought.

if the big bang is true why arent all the planets spinning the same way? if you fall of a merr-go-round your going to fall the way its turning, your not going to fall in the opposite direction.

[MadMax]

Hey DavidPartay if they had all the proof thay need than why are there people who still don't belive them. Guess there is a counter-proof to their proofs.

how do you know that it made those promises??

 

(finaly a worthy opponent)

[sVperbeast2k5]

hmmm

It seems that the trend of most "Does God exist?" discussions is for a debate of specific events and examples that either support or deny His existance... Although there may be a great deal of things that appear to confirm the presence of a supreme deity, there are just as many examples to disprove it. From what I've experienced of various religions, the focus of religion is not whether you believe because you can prove it, but whether or not you believe based on faith... assuming that faith is believing without proof. A system of belief based on what you can prove is known as science.

 

 

Personally... I believe in God. ^_^

[DavidPartay]

Max, the reason people still don't believe is because of a few reasons:

 

1. They CHOOSE not to believe

2. They are ignorant of the truth

3. They choose not to LEARN about the truth, in a way that is a sign that they are scared they will be proven wrong.

 

Those are three simple reasons people don't believe in and follow God. Another argument people tend to bring up is that the bible is full of contradictions. This is false - every single example I have seen of that is either taken out of context, it is misinterpreted from the translation or the original text, or both!

 

By the way, you may find me worthy, but I find you far inferior to others I have debated about this with . May I suggest you read over the articles at www.answersingenesis.com if you want some VERY strong theories (with information gleaned from the bible AND proof of things discovered by man) supporting Genesis - the first book in the bible, and the book which explains everything about how our earth came about.

 

SuperBeast - I entirely understand where you're coming from. I have been in many debates about Christianity, and they ALL end up comparing Creationism with Evolution. They've all had people saying "but what about man doing this and that?" sort of arguments, but that is immediately shot down with statements like "don't blame God for man's actions." which is a simple enough situation .

 

And yes, even before I witnessed supernatural things happening, and before I knew as much as I do know, I had strong faith in God. I wasn't exactly the best example of a Christian, but only once (when I was like not even 10 years old) have I doubted God's existance and that was only for like a day or something...

 

So really, I don't need to prove to myself that God exists, I've never tried to. Unfortunately, non-believers ALWAYS want proof that God exists, and that is why these debates start up.

[Calyco]

DavidPartay:

 

I would like to argue your statements on God and the Bible because you have no points that are logical as you tend to believe they are. Your understanding of the Bible is not very deep or true. I would like to address the point made on Dec. 27, 2002 pg. 15 of the forum post; Do you believe in God?, line 11; White Hole Theory, posted by you, DavidPartay. The Whitehole theory in all actuality is not logical in the sense that you state make claim that in 7 days the earth was made, so that the Bible holds truth. Literally the Bible meant 7 days, I agree, but that was the Hebrew worldview. They also believed that the world was flat, with a dome above it called firmament, with stars and sun and moon inside it to show humans the seasons and time change. This is fact. This is how the Hebrews saw the world. This is what they believed. We have evidence to show that this is not how the world really is. To use this to prove the Bible correct is taking the Bible out of context to keep it as literal truth. The Bible is a book of truths not the literal truth. Love thy neighbor is truth. We are all to love one another for us all to experience the most out of life. To take heed to what each person is in need for. The beattitudes are truth. They are much like the four noble truths. Speaking wisdom about human life and how it is to be lived fully. Using the Bible this way is incorrect and falsifies what really is there. Please stop doing so!

In your own points later on in your theological brief, you make few points and call them points. Point 1; I would say to that, in the premordial ooze for a lack of a better term there was billions and billions of other amebas and other life forms. That is why there are so many types. Point 2; it is called extinction. Life forms come and go. It will be a matter of time before we too are extinct. And by the by science has found neanderthal men skeletons. Is this not proof enough? Point 4; you state that you can not create nothing from nothing. The Big Bang theory does not state that there was nothing in the beginning. There was matter. It exploded and collapsed many times and then finally, it stayed expanded. So it was from something and not nothing. Point 10; why must it be God? Is there something that states because it is, it is from God. There also has been remenants of life on Mars. What do you say about that? So there has been life else where. In another post you said that God is all powerful. Hmm.. Well I would just like to thank God for knowing that the Holocaust was to happen and did nothing to save millions of Jews, gypsies, gays, and other non aryan people. That shows God's love. I think not. Isn't love God's message? If it is then why is God non-action oriented? Love is only love when put in practice. I believe that religious writings and language is a poetic, symbolic language that is beautiful and full of imagery. With stories having inlayed meanings in them of how to treat one another, fulfilling ethical and moral values, that is all..... There is your witty and legitament reply.