Gun Rights and Politics

[LoArmistead]

What Verran said.

 

Is the answer to take away more rights from the people who are productive and who do obey the law? Keep inching restrictions forward as we're doing and pretty soon everyone will be a criminal, and those few who aren't will feel so suffocated, they won't see the need to abide by the law anymore. That's partially what led to the collapse of the communist eastern european countries. Such tough restrictions on individual liberties eventually led the people to stop abiding by them. Do I honestly believe there is a chance we can get to that point in the future. Absolutely. Just because we aren't there yet doesn't mean it can't happen... it all has to start somewhere.

 

I don't think the answer is to increase restrictions, I think the answer is to effectively enforce those restrictions already in place. That way people like me who WANT the system to work won't get fed up with it as the system continues to take advantage of my obedience.

 

And inching restrictions forward little by little is how more and more rights are taken away. They will ban pistol magazines greater than 10 rounds. It may get some people like me in a tizzy, but we'll get over it. In a few years, they'll ban magazines greater than eight rounds, then a few years later, six rounds. They take them away incrementally as we adjust to them, and next thing we know, we wake up three decades later, and we ask, "Where did our guns go? Where did our large houses go? Why am I riding mass transit? Where did our individual transportation go?" Or, more realistically, "Where did my paycheck go? That 6% I was going to put in my IRA?" When the income tax and subsequently OASDI were passed, people were angry over something so unconstitutional. The first income tax was just 2% on the highest wage earners. People got over it. Slowly taxes started to go up over the years, government got bigger and bigger, and by the 1970s, tax rates were over 80% for some people. Now we think we are lucky when our income taxes get cut from 34% to 31%, when our grandparents were of the opinion that the 2% tax shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

 

This isn't a new concept. James Madison had this very same concern over 200 years ago:

 

"Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations."

 

And it's happened steadily ever since. If they can succeed in taking away a firearm, there is no limit to what they can take away. Speech. Religion. Assembly. It's not like we have the constitution to protect us anymore. It's been shredded for the last 70 years and no one is saying a damn thing about it. That ancient document is all that stands in the way of government completely running our lives, and we the people choosing to run our own lives. They've succeeded in shredding it so much for the past century, why should any of us feel that it protects us anymore? My only other concern is that the people have found a back door to the constitution. I fear they will use their constitutional right to vote in a government that runs our lives for us. They did it in the 30s, they did it in the 60s and 70s, and they did it November 2008. "Change we can believe in." Yeah, I can believe it. It's happened before. It's not so much Obama that I'm worried about. Sure, get a fresh face in the White House, vote for the other party, make ourselves feel better for a nano-second... but do not put him in power AND a congress full of similar ideological leftists. That's a recipe for another lost generation of economic growth, and it all starts on capitol hill with a $1 Trillion dollar pork package dubbed by the media, "economic recovery package."

[fire_storm]

But to suggest that lugging a gun about is the same as carrying a wallet (in that you rarely forget to take one with you), is beyond me. Clearly I don't understand this 'logic'. Not aimed at you Nerm!

 

Well if you grew up around guns in an area were people walked around with them all the time it would make sense to carry one around. It's just like you said before about people who will only buy big cars when they don't really need them and say that there safer and all those other excuses. In reality they buy big cars to fit in with everybody else and to gain the big car ego on the road. I think the same thing applies with carrying around a gun all the time with you. I'm sure in some parts of America were it is truly not safe to live its a good idea to have one but for the most part people who carry guns around like a wallet probably do it for the gun ego or for bragging rights or to feel some sense of power above others knowing not many people will mess with someone who's got a gun on them.

 

I grew up in an area of America were guns were used for sporting purposes and there is no gun ego if you walked around with a hand gun all the time and said it was for "Personal Defense" or "To make sure the government knows I'm armed just in case they step out of line" people would look at you like your Paranoia or up to no good.

 

I personally don't really think it's a good idea to outlaw guns or make gun laws more restrictive because in the end it probably won't slow down gun violence much and it will just make a butch of people upset.

[LoArmistead]

I grew up in an area of America were guns were used for sporting purposes and there is no gun ego if you walked around with a hand gun all the time and said it was for "Personal Defense" or "To make sure the government knows I'm armed just in case they step out of line" people would look at you like your Paranoia or up to no good.

 

That's ghetto crap. "Oh snap! Don'tchu be messin' wit Z, he gotta gun, nucca!"

 

There's no gun ego when no one knows you have the gun on you.

 

If you ask me why I have a gun, personal defense is why. It may seem "fishy," but innocent people get robbed, shot, and killed every day. Especially in larger metropolitan areas where I work and travel in. I refuse to be a victim. Of course I'm not your everyday redneck who relies on his gun for everything. I have hand tools ranging from a nice old buck knife to a 4-cell mag lite that are my first lines of defense. Guns are always the last resort, e.g. if I don't use it, my life will end right here.

 

I personally don't really think it's a good idea to outlaw guns or make gun laws more restrictive because in the end it probably won't slow down gun violence much and it will just make a butch of people upset.

 

Not only is that a smart thought, it's an irrefutable fact.

[fire_storm]

There's no gun ego when no one knows you have the gun on you.

 

You can usually tell when someone has a gun on them it may noy be obvious at first.

[LoArmistead]

You can usually tell when someone has a gun on them it may noy be obvious at first.

 

if people can tell you have one, then there's no point having it concealed. Just flip it outside your shirt and, voila, open carry, no need to go sit through a boring class and spend $500 to have the privilege of "concealing" it.

[Silverfox]

Interesting points. Yes, the car point is quite commonly used, similar to the knife. But you can bet there are more cars in America than guns (excluding Texas), and the proportion of deliberate car murders against gun murders will no doubt be very different. I still find myself slightly bemused by the fact a nation is so adamant on being able to legally carry around a tool that is made for killing people should they need to. In this respect, it is very different to a car or knife, as you can kill someone from distance with a gun (though possible otherwise, it's much harder with a car).

 

So for those that do carry a gun everywhere, what happens if you are in a different country and think you may be in a hostile neighbourhood etc? I've walked around in the USA and never once felt unsafe (Washington DC, Philadelphia, NY and Wilmington), though that's not to say I didn't walk past hundreds of gun wielding citizens. I don't doubt that most are responsible, but is it worth the risk for those that are irresponsible and take the lives of other high school kids and so forth?

 

Not a question I would like to answer to be honest.

[Verran]

Not only is that a smart thought, it's an irrefutable fact.

No it's not. It's absolutely not. It's an opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, but it find it very disingenuous when you represent opinions as fact.

 

As for the slippery slope mentality, we've been down that road and I just don't agree. It's a trump card that your side can use to not allow any changes. Don't think, just say "slippery slope". Sorry, but I don't buy it. You can get out your fiddle and tell me all about how it starts with 10 round mags and ends with your first born, but I don't think it ends the discussion. If you have a problem with a specific proposal, voice it. Don't just tell me what you think it leads to.

 

As for the rest of the text, honestly most of it just sounds like sore-loser conservative doomsday predictions. Sorry, but that's the truth as I see it. I'm sure the crying democratic masses screamed it'd be the end of the world when Bush got in, and yet somehow we're still here. Obama's not going to do any more damage than McCain would have, just a different kind... a kind you personally like less. Both parties are so far from "Constitutional" these days that I'd be surprised if they could tell me what the document even was.

[Kuronin]

Do you give the morons guns because it's unfair to deny the intelligent minority their rights?

 

Verran FTW. IMO, this is what it pretty much comes down to. I also agree that it's not just about owning a gun, it's about the government taking away personal freedoms. In a perfect would, gun control would be a no brainer, as SilverFox said, "Everyone who has a gun is a bad guy" but that's where you have to face reality and accept that feeling secure is one of your basic rights.

 

Basically, its your personal preference, some people feel more secure surrending their freedoms and relying upon the authorities to protect them, others would prefer not to get caught in a gunfight with a knife. That's where the line is drawn, whether the government does a good job punishing those who do wrong and catching those who do wrong. Government needs to either control every part of a country or leave their hands off, the United States is a wierd hybrid, and that's where problems are being caused, because the black and white is being meshed into shades of gray.

[dr_bowtie]

Yes, hunting is allowed I don't have an issue with hunters at all. Though I doubt you carry a gun or rifle with you at all times, lest you see a deer at the supermarket or at college.

 

But to suggest that lugging a gun about is the same as carrying a wallet (in that you rarely forget to take one with you), is beyond me. Clearly I don't understand this 'logic'. Not aimed at you Nerm!

 

you wont really understand until you live the life of the need....when you live in fear of criminals with guns and are in fear of even going outside at night in your own yard because someone may be there looking to steel anything and everything...

 

People so hooked on drugs with a gun that will do ANYTHING to get their next fix at any cost...these are the people we try to protect ourselves from....

 

 

people that pray on you because you are honest and you spend your hard earned money on things in life like tools or family stuff...only to have them steel it in the middle of the night...

 

People that are professional burglars that walk through your home while you sleep and steel anything and some are real bad to the fact of raping any woman they come across...this is only some of the stuff that happens in my town....

 

drugs are very ramped and crime is high because of it...it's not safe to go out at night in some places not even outside...

 

I carry because i choose to...hopefully I never have to use it but I feel I need to protect what I have worked hard to get...if it's stolen it aint coming back...it's just gone..why should I have to go through the hassle to replace what I have already bought just because someone else wants it more than me...not saying I would shoot a person on that alone but what if i just happened to walk into it and he had a gun...?

 

My role is to protect my family at all cost...period...you cant always rely on the law enforcement...here they are under paid, over worked and way under staffed...

 

It's just sad that we have to rely on guns to protect ourselves in life...but we do...

 

I wish I didnt have to worry about these things and we could live somewhere we didnt have these issues but sad fact is...it's all around us...

 

if we didnt have crime...we wouldnt need guns or gun control...fact is..the police nor the government can control it...it's just too big...

[jammin]

feeling secure is one of your basic rights.

 

Well, it's not really is it. That's why it's a feeling and therefore intangible.

If I said it was a basic right to feel happy, then that would be silly as well.

[Kuronin]

Well, it's not really is it. That's why it's a feeling and therefore intangible.

If I said it was a basic right to feel happy, then that would be silly as well.

 

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[LoArmistead]

No it's not. It's absolutely not. It's an opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, but it find it very disingenuous when you represent opinions as fact.

 

It's not disingenuous at all. I don't say it's a fact unless it is.

 

If you have a problem with a specific proposal, voice it. Don't just tell me what you think it leads to.

 

I gave my proposal. I also gave a specific example of the "slippery slope." Read the post.

 

As for the rest of the text, honestly most of it just sounds like sore-loser conservative doomsday predictions. Sorry, but that's the truth as I see it. I'm sure the crying democratic masses screamed it'd be the end of the world when Bush got in, and yet somehow we're still here. Obama's not going to do any more damage than McCain would have, just a different kind... a kind you personally like less. Both parties are so far from "Constitutional" these days that I'd be surprised if they could tell me what the document even was.

 

Who said anything about me rooting for McCain? McCain was a worthless piece of . who violated just about everything that I've brought up in this thread. I think you still have to work on understanding where I'm coming from. You can't be a sore loser if you haven't lost anything.