Occ Self-defense Philosophy Time!

[Kamikaze_Badger]

As I posted on another forum:

 

Info you'll probably want: I'm male, 5'11, 190 pounds, and am currently a 9th Gup (Yellow Belt) in Tang Soo Do.

 

Recently, I got in a bad argument with some of my family members. The reason for the argument was in regards to an exchange student we were hosting wanting to leave, and them bad mouthing her for it.

 

It eventually escalated to one point between my sister (20, 5'6, skinny) and I. She threatened that she'd try to slap me. To this I replied, "Bring it on!" After a few more moments of shouting, she did attempt it. I used a somewhat modified

to block her slap, and then push her back away from me. When I pushed her back, it wasn't with force, and she only took a step back. At that point she left me alone physically.

 

Later on in the night my little brother attempted to charge at me and hit me. I swiped away his arm with the same block, grabbed him by the shoulders, and redirected him out of my way. In doing this, he hit the wall (not hard enough to hurt him), and several picture frames fell off, and a small ceramic knickknack fell off of some stacked shelves against the wall. He also left me alone after that, and stuck with verbal remarks.

 

I know that the best thing would have been to ignore them all and walk away, and I wish I had done that. Regardless of that, were my defenses still justified, or am I in the wrong for what I did? I do believe that most of the escalation was due to my continuing the arguments.

 

Thanks.

[scr4wl]

Idk i prolly woulda done the same thing why would you wanna get hit

 

To bad you live with those people though

 

just apologize for your actions or something i dunno

[GaiusMaxwell]

Im male, 6"4', 240lbs and I have been training in Ving Tsun kung fu for 8 years (there are no grades) but I can be refered to as a master of the art, aswell as reaching a brown belt in hwa rang do.

 

I am not a violent person, nor are any of the people I have trained with (including sifu barry lee who fought for his life to bring the art to australia) but we do have a saying "if someone disrespects you enough to harm you physically, you show them the same respects" - and if I am attacked it starts to look less like self defence and more like a slaughter, but I don't relise how much force I exert being such a big guy

 

From what I can tell, you were justified in what you did, you didn't mean to harm either of them (and you didn't from what I can tell) and you only defended yourself, not unlike someone with no martial arts experience who probably would have hurt them unintentionally

 

I would just apologise if you feel it is needed, otherwise, I wish you luck with your martial art ventures =)

[scr4wl]

From what I can tell, you were justified in what you did, you didn't mean to harm either of them (and you didn't from what I can tell) and you only defended yourself, not unlike someone with no martial arts experience who probably would have hurt them unintentionally

 

Umm not to offend you or anything but if you don't want to hurt some one you wont hurt them regardless of wether you have martial arts experience or not.

[Kamikaze_Badger]

and if I am attacked it starts to look less like self defence and more like a slaughter, but I don't relise how much force I exert being such a big guy

 

This may be off topic, but you need to find a new instructor if you've been training for eight years and still can't control yourself in self-defense.

[GaiusMaxwell]

Umm not to offend you or anything but if you don't want to hurt some one you wont hurt them regardless of wether you have martial arts experience or not.

 

not true at all

 

A very easy example of this is big brothers and little sisters, the brother could be just "mucking around" and accidently hurt the younger sister, the younger sister could have even started it by "mucking around" and the brother push her away and hurt her by accident

 

This principle can be used among adults, a bigger person may not mean to hurt a smaller during self defence, but not knowing their own strength could accidently inflict reasonable harm

 

A 32 year old male whom i trained with for 5 years gave up Ving Tsun kung fu because he was out drinking, got into a fight and killed the other guy, he did not mean to kill him, he was only defending himself

 

Regardless of whether you mean to hurt someone or not during self defence is irrelevant, if you do not know what you are doing (or something has altered your perception e.g alchohol) , you can and will hurt someone in any number of situations

Edited November 8, 2008 by Whatislove

[GaiusMaxwell]

This may be off topic, but you need to find a new instructor if you've been training for eight years and still can't control yourself in self-defense.

 

It is how Ving Tsun kung fu is trained, ive had several instructors over the years, including sifu barry lee himself, the art is "battle ready" as it has been used to defend barry's life and he is the "matriarch" of the art in australia

 

In training, there is no such thing as a tap out, or a time out, or anything of the sort because we all believe that your training crosses into real world situations when you dont want it to e.g:-

 

A brazilian jujitsu master robbed a small store, he put the clerk in a choke and the clerk tapped his arm and the robber released the hold - if this were a life or death situation in a totally different scenario the jujitsu master would have been killed - true story

 

Ving Tsun kung fu training is bringing real world scenarios into the class - as a Ving Tsun kung fu fighter you cannot imagine yourself losing, losing is impossible, the fight ends with a death or more often than not the other person walking away, we arent pitbulls and we will not chase after, and we do use strict defensive blocks to start off, but if the attacker is persistent than we must take action

 

Krav maga is another good example of a batte ready martial art, any martial art claims to give you self defence, but out of the thousands that are out there in the world, only 2% of them work in real world situations, Ving Tsun kung fu and krav maga are 2 of these - id like to elaborate a little:-

 

Karate, tae kwon do, judo - these are some of the most popular martial arts systems in the world, but unless you go to the source for these martial arts (e.g Kyo kushin, hwa rang do) you will not get self defence..what you get in the US/Australia is an exhibition sport. 5 weeks ago a Go kan ryu karate sensei of 35 years quit and started training in our system after being attacked front on and getting stabbed, helpless to defend himself because karate simply doesnt work in the real world, it is about points and rounds...if he had been trained in either ving tsun kung fu or krav maga he should have been effectlively able to relieve the attacker of his weapon or atleast defend himself from the attack

Edited November 8, 2008 by Whatislove

[Kamikaze_Badger]

I doubt the master earned his rank if he were to rob a store. Then again, with the amount of McDojos out there, it doesn't really surprise me. Perhaps he cranked out enough "advanced" students to make his organization happy.

 

Self-defense has degrees. You should never go further than needed. If you seriously believe that every defense situation requires death, then you're terribly misguided. My instructor has been a bodyguard for 30+ years. Guess what arts he's used? Tang Soo Do mixed with a .357 Magnum for persuasive purposes.

 

Krav Maga is originally a military defense art, not a traditional martial art. In times that a soldier's fighting hand to hand combat, THEN generally someone is either going to be killed or permanently disabled. Your school needs to teach serious self-control if a student of yours "accidently" killed someone. Then again, if you're claiming to be a master after eight years (we have students who train longer than that just for 1st Dan), that says quite a bit.

[GaiusMaxwell]

I doubt the master earned his rank if he were to rob a store. Then again, with the amount of McDojos out there, it doesn't really surprise me. Perhaps he cranked out enough "advanced" students to make his organization happy.

 

Self-defense has degrees. You should never go further than needed. If you seriously believe that every defense situation requires death, then you're terribly misguided. My instructor has been a bodyguard for 30+ years. Guess what arts he's used? Tang Soo Do mixed with a .357 Magnum for persuasive purposes.

 

Krav Maga is originally a military defense art, not a traditional martial art. In times that a soldier's fighting hand to hand combat, THEN generally someone is either going to be killed or permanently disabled. Your school needs to teach serious self-control if a student of yours "accidently" killed someone. Then again, if you're claiming to be a master after eight years (we have students who train longer than that just for 1st Dan), that says quite a bit.

 

yes krav maga is a military defense art and ving tsun kung fu is derived from the same principles, kill or be killed

 

I also didnt mean master in the sense i think you took it, an instructor is called a sifu in ving tsun, which directly translated means "father" but we generally use "master" as a more english friendly term, i am a Junior sifu

 

EDIT: oh i did forget to comment on the mcdojo remark, most of the time, if you have the money..you get the training (with exceptions ofcourse, shaolin kung fu etc)

Edited November 8, 2008 by Whatislove

[GaiusMaxwell]

http://www.vingtsun.net.au/

 

"The term "Self Defence" is often misunderstood. As my Sifu, Legendary Master Wong Shun Leung once said: "How can you defend yourself, unless you can fight & win?". Ving Tsun gives you the necessary tools (principles, techniques and practiced skill) to fight and win." - sifu lee

[Andrewr05]

I think what you did was fine, just remember "time heals all wounds"

[Verran]

If you want to talk about philosophy of martial arts and self defense, "Bring it on!" was probably the exact wrong response. No matter the school you're studying at, I'd think the lesson would always be to avoid confrontation whenever possible.

 

Apart from that, I don't see how your actions were wrong. Someone takes a swing at you, they can't be mad if they get a little hurt in the process.