Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Reviewed

[Guest_Jim_*]

 

 

PS. If you're relying on FFYL to beat bosses, you're not doing it right

 

If the game's balance forces you to rely on FfYL to beat bosses and even just clear out normal battle arenas, the developers are not doing something right. Your statement sounds like an attack on me, as though I am not that good at playing these games. Considering I have over double your playtime in BL2 (117 hours to 252) and 110 hours more in BL1 (79 to 189), such a comment would be utterly inappropriate.

 

 

In Claymeow's defence, you can play a game a lot of hours, but that doesn't have to make you good at it

I have seen plenty of players playing games hundreds of hours and still play really bad.

 

Fair enough, but it is still the case that I have dramatically more experience with this franchise, good or bad. (Of course I believe I am a good player, not great but good, but that is not exactly something easily proven. But then, neither would Clay's skills.)

Also, at least according to Steam, Claymeow does not even have a copy of the Pre-Sequel, so unless he has/is playing it on console, he lacks the experience to comment on its balance.

[WarWeeny]

 

 

 

PS. If you're relying on FFYL to beat bosses, you're not doing it right

 

If the game's balance forces you to rely on FfYL to beat bosses and even just clear out normal battle arenas, the developers are not doing something right. Your statement sounds like an attack on me, as though I am not that good at playing these games. Considering I have over double your playtime in BL2 (117 hours to 252) and 110 hours more in BL1 (79 to 189), such a comment would be utterly inappropriate.

 

 

In Claymeow's defence, you can play a game a lot of hours, but that doesn't have to make you good at it

I have seen plenty of players playing games hundreds of hours and still play really bad.

 

 

Also, at least according to Steam, Claymeow does not even have a copy of the Pre-Sequel, so unless he has/is playing it on console, he lacks the experience to comment on its balance.

 

 

That is true, looks like we need to wait on confirmation on this then.

 

I have seen some gameplay of it and the first 2 hours, and it looked way to much like an mmorpg to me (a lot of useless fetch-quests, slow leveling) so I probably am not picking up the game any time soon.

Didn't look too hard, but then again, it is at the start of the game, i can't tell how the later parts of the game is.

[Guest_Jim_*]

It also seemed to me like they were going for an MMORPG feel, which does not make sense to me. I mean if you want to do that, then make it massively multiplayer, instead of allowing solo play and having a four-player cap. A Borderlands MMO could work too, in my opinion, but they should go for it and not just the feel of it.

[ClayMeow]

 

 

 

PS. If you're relying on FFYL to beat bosses, you're not doing it right

 

If the game's balance forces you to rely on FfYL to beat bosses and even just clear out normal battle arenas, the developers are not doing something right. Your statement sounds like an attack on me, as though I am not that good at playing these games. Considering I have over double your playtime in BL2 (117 hours to 252) and 110 hours more in BL1 (79 to 189), such a comment would be utterly inappropriate.

 

 

In Claymeow's defence, you can play a game a lot of hours, but that doesn't have to make you good at it

I have seen plenty of players playing games hundreds of hours and still play really bad.

 

Fair enough, but it is still the case that I have dramatically more experience with this franchise, good or bad. (Of course I believe I am a good player, not great but good, but that is not exactly something easily proven. But then, neither would Clay's skills.)

Also, at least according to Steam, Claymeow does not even have a copy of the Pre-Sequel, so unless he has/is playing it on console, he lacks the experience to comment on its balance.

 

As WarWeeny said, whether you spent more time in a game than me or not is irrelevant. You've played less than 20 hours of BLPS, but somehow my 79 and 117 in BL and BL2, respectively, is not enough time to get a solid grasp for those games?

 

No, I do not own BLPS, so I can only go by what you and others say right now. It may very well be an unbalanced game, but you have not proven that by what you've recounted because in my opinion, your reasoning behind your stance is poor. What you described doesn't sound like bad design (apart from having to run through the dungeon again post-credits), just a tough fight.

 

I've played several games where it's taken me ten times to kill a particular boss or pass a particular area - that doesn't necessarily make a game unbalanced or unfair, as long as there are multiple strategies to attempt, which BLPS has. Maybe you're the best BL player in the world or maybe you suck; maybe you're too set in your ways to alter strategies when your main one fails; maybe you're just unlucky and your "best gun" uses an element a particular tough boss is immune to; maybe the game is unfair. You've yet to prove which scenario is at play here and no other review of the game that I've read even hints that the game is too difficult or too unfair. What many do mention is that each character has a variety of playstyles, so maybe you just didn't find one that suited yours. It also probably didn't help that you chose the most complicated character to start off with. Based on your hours in the previous games, I think you understand that there's still a lot you haven't tried/experienced.

 

And are you seriously arguing that I'm not allowed to use the word "random" because probability tables are used? :sigh:

[Guest_Jim_*]

Andrew, the flaws to your latest post are numerous.

First, it was 16 hours and 4 minutes to complete the playthrough. Yes it was under 20, but how much time past a complete playthrough would you say it takes to know a game? Besides, you have 0 hours in the game and can only write out your interpretation of other people's interpretations.

 

Second my point about the playtimes was not that yours is insufficient for the two previous titles, but that attacking my skills as a gamer is inappropriate, given my greater experience in this franchise. Besides this thread is for a review of the Pre-Sequel, not the previous games. Again, I only brought them up to counter your attack on my skills, to demonstrate that I am experienced in this franchise and its gameplay, and thus can make statements concerning the balance.

 

If you feel that my reasoning is poor, that's fine, feel that way. If you want to do something about it, then be more targeted about it and to the point. Attacking me does not further anything and only serves to embarrass you and wastes our time.

 

You claim that the only example I gave that seemed like bad design was having to run back through the dungeon post-credits. What about the boss fight I described that kept the boss routinely out of reach, except when laying down one of several powerful attacks? Would you not call that bad design? (That particular boss fight was similar to the Bunker fight in BL2, except that Bunker would actually park at times, giving the player the opportunity to attack, and the Bunker's own attacks were not so overwhelming. The Bunker fight was well designed.)

For the boss fight before that, what about the death trap between the respawn point and the elevator to the arena? If the goal is to delay a player's return to the fight, why not just make the elevator ride longer instead of killing players who are anxious to give it another go?

Also it was during that boss fight that the transforming mob enemies were present, the ones that broke the FfYL system, making it next to impossible to recover. How are those enemies, which were not present previously in the game and thus not something the player could anticipate, not unbalanced in a boss fight? Even just reducing the umber of the transforming enemies, and increasing the number of normal mobs would have improved the balance, without disrupting the challenge or toughness of the fight.

 

Ten times to kill a particular boss? I don't know how many attempts for sure, but I spent on that one boss (not the Bunker-like one) but it was easily half an hour to forty minutes, minimum, and the number of attempts was likely in the dozens. What's more, I said that this boss fight is unbalanced, not the game.

 

The enemies in that boss fight had no elemental affinity, so that is irrelevant, besides the striping of shields with electrical weapons, which I did have and use. I used all of the weapons and damage types I could because I was altering my strategies and repeatedly failing. The strategy that ultimately worked, as I state in the review, was to run away, which, in my opinion, is utterly unacceptable and inexcusable. If a player has to run from a boss fight like that, why would they not just run from the game?

 

What kind of proof do you want for "which scenario is at play?" Seriously, since you have positioned yourself as the master here, tell me what prove you desire. What proof besides my description of the experience could possibly be necessary? Do I have to replay the game and stream that fight it for you, so you can see what I already wrote about?

 

You talk about these other reviews; do any of them say how many people played the game? Here you know it was just me, alone. Also, here are some quotes for others I have found:

 

Joystiq (the boss it refers to the Bunker-like boss I was talking about):

 

The first battle against the high-flying, heavily armored Deadlift is achingly difficult, even with a co-op partner. It plays like a mid-game fight stuck at the very beginning of the story, introducing green launch pads that fling your character across the map or straight up. It's a hard lesson in how to jump well, and not necessarily a good one. Later on, smaller battles against hordes of outlaws, scavs, raiders and kragons get ridiculously busy, to the point where you can't turn around before you're hit with 50 bullets and scaly tails. During one of these fights, I got trapped against a wall, enemies pinning me in place so that I couldn't move at all.

To be succinct: You'll probably die a lot in The Pre-Sequel, and some of those deaths may be extra frustrating thanks to circumstances beyond your control.

 

"Circumstances beyond your control" sounds like bad balance and design to me.

 

Polygon:

 

Not that death means much. Maybe more than either previous Borderlands game, The Pre-Sequel doesn't really care if you die (outside of boss battles, that is, where dying allows heavies to regain their health and shields). There's not much penalty or consequence aside from the same minor respawn fee that's always been there. You can keep throwing yourself into the same firefights until you conquer them, if that's what you want to do.

 

Notice, the very same issue with the FfYL system I have brought up in this review, and the review of BL2.

It also said this:

 

It's worth mentioning that some sidequests hid entire systems as rewards, such as an item grinder that lets you break down unwanted items for randomized new gear. This makes for a mostly easier game, but it also allows you to finish the main campaign and unlock harder, more loot-rewarding game options. It also means solo-ing the game the first time through is a reasonable option, underlined by boss fights that aren't extended damage sponges

[GabrielT]

I don't think anyone is attacking you. Some thicker skin might be in order. 

 

On a side note, some people like a challenge. I think Borderlands 2 is too easy, at least until UVHM which is ridiculously difficult. 

Would you compare the difficulty to True Vault Hunter Mode? Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode? Or OP mode (I haven't attempted these)

 

Have you tried a character that isn't a two foot tall novelty robot butler who's was originally designed to open doors? 

[WarWeeny]

I don't think anyone is attacking you. Some thicker skin might be in order. 

 

 

In guest_jim_*'s defense, he spent a lot of time in making that review and played the game thoroughly to make a good summary of what the game is.

If someone calls out to that review, it can hurt quite a bit, even though it is not intentionally offensive.

[ClayMeow]

Jim is the one slinging personal attacks here, not me. If he doesn't understand that people have different opinions, then he shouldn't be a reviewer. I simply stated that difficulty does not equate to bad design; if he feels otherwise, that's his prerogative, but to attack me over my stance is juvenile at best. It's funny because Gabriel "attacked his abilities" first, but I guess because he added "good review" to it, that's okay.

 

It's also hilarious the review quotes he selected...one saying the game is easy, the other saying he wishes the complexity at the end was present throughout. But hey, I guess you read into it what you want.

[GabrielT]

 

I don't think anyone is attacking you. Some thicker skin might be in order. 

 

 

In guest_jim_*'s defense, he spent a lot of time in making that review and played the game thoroughly to make a good summary of what the game is.

If someone calls out to that review, it can hurt quite a bit, even though it is not intentionally offensive.

 

I understand that, the intentionally offensive part is what is key. People are dicks, people have always been dicks and they will continue to be dicks until the end of time. This is true of all people and we have to build up some sort of dick barrier especially if you are going to post things on a public forum.

ClayMeow isn't any more of a dick than anyone else by the way. No offensive intended to ClayMeow

 

 

Jim is the one slinging personal attacks here, not me. If he doesn't understand that people have different opinions, then he shouldn't be a reviewer. I simply stated that difficulty does not equate to bad design; if he feels otherwise, that's he prerogative, but to attack me over my stance is juvenile at best. It's funny because Gabriel "attacked his abilities" first, but I guess because he added "good review" to it, that's okay. 

 

I mostly asked questions, I was mostly wondering if after he had done side missions if he was still under powered. 

 

I always make sure to use "kid gloves" on the internet. 

Things that aren't meant to be harsh can taken completely the wrong way. 

[WarWeeny]

Jim is the one slinging personal attacks here, not me. 

 

If this comment was aimed at me, i never said you were, hence the "not intentional" part.

Critique can be seen from many angles, and offensive is one of them, even though it isn't most of the time.

 

Sometimes it is better to hold back comments that can *look* offensive to people to avoid this kind of discussion.

 

But yah, Jim went a bit overboard with that wall of text, but at least he made his point across (most of it anyway )

[paulktreg]

I think this should of been sorted out "behind the scenes" rather than in a public forum?

[WarWeeny]

Nah, this is just a regular discussion between members, nothing really needed to go "behind the scenes".