mobo + memory problems

[Latem]

Hello, I'm glad to find this place. Hopefully I can get my problem sorted out. This is a long post, but please help me.

 

First my system:

 

- 1 x 350W Power Supply

- 1 x AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 512K 400FSB BARTON SOCKET A CPU

- 1 x DFI INFINITY NFORCE2 ULTRA400 SOCKET A DUAL DDR AGP 6PCI SATA SOUND LAN 1394

- 3 x SAMSUNG 512MB PC3200 DDR400 RAM

- 1 x SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200 80GB HD ATA/100 HD

- 1 x VIEWSONIC G90FB 19IN MONITOR

- 1 x ATI RADEON 9800 PRO 256MB

- 1 x LITEON DVD+-RW DUAL 8X4X/8X4X CDRW 40X24X30X

- 1 x Creative Sound Blaster Live! 5.1

 

I just got this computer a few weeks ago, except it had INFENION ram. it crashed a few times in windows (just restarted on its own), and kept crashing to desktop in Far Cry and Warcrag III TFT, the only games I installed. Anyway I did memtest86+ and it gave like ~33000 errors, so I concluded that I had bad ram. I sent that ram back, and got replacements the above listed Samsung ram. The ram I have, and my motherboard. So finally yesturday I got the new ram, I put it in and after playing farcry for 10-15 minutes it crashed to the desktop. So I ran memtest86+, and it gave ~4500 errors in one pass. I couldnt believe I got bad ram again, so I thought it was my mobo. Over the next 3 hours I did this:

 

1. Took out all the sticks, then took one and placed it in one slot. Ran memtest86+, and it passed 1 pass ok.

2. So I took this stick and put it in a second slot, ran Memtest again, and it passed 1 pass w/o errors.

3. Then I took this stick, and put it in the 3rd ram slot, ran Memtest, and it passed the test w/o errors. So I concluded that my mobo is ok.

4. I took this stick out, and then I took the 2nd memory stick, and placed it in one of the slots. Ran memtest, and after 1 pass, there were no errors.

5. I took this stick out, and I took the 3rd stick, and placed it in a different slot (than above), and ran memtest. After 1 pass there were no errors.

6. Then leaving the 3rd stick in, I took stick #1, and placed it in the 1st slot. That means now I have 2 sticks in. Ran memtest, and after 1 pass there were no errors.

7. Leaving all sticks in, I placed stick #2, and put it in the remaining (middle) slot. Ran memtest, and after 1 pass it gave almost 700 errors at test#6.

8. Ok wtf?? So I took the other 2 stick out, leaving just the stick #2, in the same (middle) slot, and ran memtest. One pass returned no errors.

9. Now I put stick #3, into the first slot, and am running memtest now. ~500 errors so far (2 @ test #4 and the rest @ test #6).

10. I put the 2 sticks that worked before (in 6), but this time one of the sticks was in a different slot, and it gave two errors at test#2. At which point I just gave up and shut off my computer. it was already pretty late.

 

Ok so what is going on with my computer?

 

This is what Memtest has to say about my settings:

 

Chipset: nVidia nForce2 SSP / FSB: 200Mhz

Settings: RAM : 200Mhz (DDR400) / CAS: 2.5-3-3-8 / Dual Channel (128 bits)

 

The only difference was when I had one stick at a time, it said 64 bits at end.

 

Are these settings right? I thought my mobo was FSB: 400Mhz. and shouldn't the RAM be running at the same freq. I dont know much about these ram settings and FSB and timings and such. Please keep in mind this, when posting suggestions. From searching I've read many people say "make sure timings are tight", or "change or lower your ram voltage" and "change ram clock". I am not sure exactly what all these things mean (especially the timings thing). But I guess you change them from BIOS?

Also in the BIOS there are some settings for RAM that have options like "Normal" or "Default" and "Turbo" and "Expert" and such. I've read that changing some setting from Turbo to Default fixes some problems. So if you have anything to say about this please do share

 

Also from searching around, people have said that to others that my mobo is good "just make sure you have revision 2" or something like that. Whats revesion 2? Is that a different version of the mobo, or just newer BIOS? How do you find out which "revision" you have? Also I've read to make sure I have newer BIOS. I probably have the ones that came with the board. Could this be the problem. Also hw do I check which bios I have, and which ones shouold I have?

 

I also have a question about updating BIOS.

Here in the sticky it says:

Unplug the power cord to the computer to completely power down

clear CMOS jumper for 30 seconds

Power computer back up, and immediately go into the BIOS

Choose "Load Failsafe Defaults" or "Load Optimized"

Save and exit

Immediately after reboot, go back into the BIOS and configure to your liking

 

But on DFI's website it says to dl the zip which includes the falsh util and a .bin file, and then to put it on floppy. and then execute in DOS:

A:theexe.exe thebin.bin /F/QSI

or something like that. Where does this part come in the above description. Also I dont even know what I should dl from the BIOS page at my motherboard's DFI website?

 

Please help me. I am very confused and desparate to get my comp working. Any ideas/advise/tips are greatly appreciated.

 

Thansk, a lot,

Latem

[j0eb0b]

Lots of good information but one key piece is missing. Tell use a little more about your "350W Power Supply". Please open the case, identify the manufacturer, and the voltage/amp values on the decal on the side of the supply.

 

The road to He** is paved with crappy memory and wimpy power supplies.

 

Joe

[Latem]

thanx, for the reply.

 

This is my case, which also came with the power supply. I know it isnt exactly "top brand name". But I doubt it's the problem.

Also, it appears that everything works fine with two sticks. I have 1 stick in the middle slot (slot #2 I think), and one in the far (lonely, slot #3 I think) slot. This should be dual channel if I understand it right. It seems to be working fine. I was able to play FarCry for 2-2.5 hrs, and I just installed Doom III, and played that for an hour w/o problems.

 

I've been advised to try increasing the RAM voltage to 2.7.

 

Any more ideas are welcome.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Latem

[mongoled]

Never doubt the impact that the quality of a PSU can have with these HO's. j0eb0b has most definately correctly pointed this out, this piece of advice should not be casually disregarded.

 

Upping your ram voltage is a good start, but if you find that you problem persists, you should look into that generic PSU you have in your case.

 

-EDIT-

 

re-read your post...dude you are in need of so much information which has been already posted countless times. So i ask a couple of questions. Is your memory set at 1:1 in the bios or is it set at auto...

 

Nope thats the wrong way me going abt things

 

Can u please list ALL your bios settings found in 'Genie' Part of bios and can you also list the setting in the Advanced Configuration part of bios.

 

Then would be easy to point out what needs changing, this would be the fastest and most easy method to diagnose problem. So get pen paper ready, and here we go.............

[Latem]

Thanks for willing to help guys. It means a lot.

 

Here's the requested info:

 

Genie BIOS Settings

-------------------------



  CPU Clock Spread Spectrum		Disabled

x AGP Clock Spread Spectrum	 	Disabled   *

  CPU Clock Setting					200Mhz

  AGP Clock Setting					Auto

  CPU Ration						   Auto

  DDR DRAM Clock					   By SPD

  Current DDR Frequency is			 200Mhz   *

  Current CPU Voltage is			   1.64V	*

  Current DIMM Voltage is			  2.67V	*

  CPU Voltage Control				  Auto

  AGP Voltage Control			   	Auto

  CHIPSET Voltage Control			  Auto

  DRAM Voltage Control				 Auto



  BIOS Flash Protect		   	Disabled

  nVidia Lan Chip Control			  Enabled

  nVidia Lan MAC Address			   Disabled

x MAX(NV) Address Input				 Press Enter	*

  IEEE1394 Chip Control				Enabled

  Sil3114 S-ATA Control				SATA RAID





Advanced Chipset Features

----------------------------------



 System Performance			   	Optimal

x CPU Interface						 Optimal	*

x Memory Timings						Optimal	*

x T(RAS)								8		  *

x T(RCD-Read)						   3   	   *

x T(RP)								3		  *

x CAS Latency						 	2.5		*

x T(CRC)							   	13		 *

x T(RFC)							   	15		 *

x SuperBypass						 	Enabled	*

x Sync Mode Memory Bypass			   Auto	   *

x Data Scavanged Rate				 	Fast	   *

x DIMM1 Driving Strength				Auto	   *

x DIMM1 Driving Slew Rate			   Auto	   *

x DIMM2 Driving Strength				Auto	   *

x DIMM2 Driving Slew Rate			   Auto	   *

x DIMM3 Driving Strength				Auto	   *

x DIMM3 Driving Slew Rate				  Auto	   *

  AGP Aperture Size (MB)				  128M

  AGP 8X Support					   Enabled

  AGP Fast Write Capability			Enabled

  CPU Thermal Throttling			   50.0%

  System BIOS Cacheable				Disabled

  Video RAM Cacheable				  Disabled

* indicates that the option was kinda grayed out, and was not editable

 

Let me know if any more info is needed.

Sorry Im a newbie when it comes to this detailed memory stuff.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Latem

[RGone]

:confused: you gunna walk him thru the bios flash as well? Might help with that 512 sticks of memory?? He got it where you can post the changes out to the side pretty easy in fact I think I am going to copy that into text file for future use as the Genie Bios is all there.

 

RGone...

[m0ng0d]

check out his worksheet

 

Notice how in their example, they get up to almost 300W very quickly, and that was with a pathetic video card, which I can see you do not have.

 

Your GPU and CPU alone are quite hungry units... add a mobo with a healthy array of integrated peripherals, as well as some external ones of your own and your 350W is not up to it, especially a generic one.

 

Let's not forget that about every power supply references peak wattage, and not normal/sustainable power levels... Here is a link to explain. Read it all, although I think you will enjoy pages 3 & 4 the most.

[Latem]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I'll try and test if the PSU is the problem. I'll try to borrow a friend's or something.

 

In the mean time, got any advice regarding my BIOS set up?

 

Could flashing to newer BIOS solve my problem?

 

Just to mention it again. It seems to be working fine with 2 sticks. I've used it the whole weekend ok. I've played the whole DOOM III this weekend (not in 1 session), w/o a problem.

 

Also with flashing the BIOS, I think I understand how to do it.

 

I download NF2In6191.zip from

 

http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/Download/bio..._FLAG=A&SITE=NA

 

extract it, and put on bootable floppy.

 

do

A:>AWDFLASH N24ID619.BIN /F/QI/CC/Sn/Py

in DOS, and then on reboot set everything to defaults.

 

That's pretty straight forward.

 

I got confused when I read in the FAQ here:

Unplug the power cord to the computer to completely power down

clear CMOS jumper for 30 seconds

Power computer back up, and immediately go into the BIOS

Choose "Load Failsafe Defaults" or "Load Optimized"

Save and exit

Immediately after reboot, go back into the BIOS and configure to your liking

 

where is the part about actually flashing the bios here? I am assuming this is what to do once you flashed the BIOS

 

Finally, I've also been told this:

 

the nForce2 chipset is designed to support 6 ranks max. A configuration of 3 two-rank (traditionally known as double-sided) dimms is pushing the chipset to the max and may require changes in the BIOS - memory frequency decrease, for example. But, decreasing the memory frequency while keeping the AthlonXP 3200+ FSB at spec would not be recommended with the nForce2 chipset because it would suffer from overhead resynchronization penalty. In other words, it would be best to keep the FSB and memory frequency in sync. Have any of the methods that don't require decrease in memory frequency allowed it to work with all three dimms? If not, i'd try to obtain the highest possible FSB while maintaining a 1:1 (sync) FSB/Memory-Frequency ratio.

 

Any thoughts?

This decreses performance right? but otherwise shouldn't cause any problems?

Also since it's so important to have that 1:1 ratio, should I just try setting the CPU Ratio in Genie Options in BIOS to that, inseat of Auto? I think I misspelled that "CPU Ration" in my previous post, and it should be Ratio.

 

EDIT: Also I've been told to try disabling dual channeling. So that all three sticks are single channel. Is this a good idea and worth trying? And how do I do it? From looking at those BIOS settings I can't see any option that would do that?

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Latem

[RGone]

code:A:>AWDFLASH N24ID619.BIN /F/QI/CC/Sn/Py

is not quite correct but should have spaces between the/ like this:

A:>AWDFLASH N24ID619.BIN /F /QI /CC /Sn /Py.

 

After the bios flashes using the syntax above it will likely say remove floppy and press F1 to reset. Which is in effect a reboot. As it reboots enter the bios and right side of menu> choose load optimized defaults "Y" and "enter" > then choose save and exit and during the following reboot process this is what I do.

Shutdown and> Unplug the power cord to the computer to completely power down>remove the battery and place clear CMOS jumper to clear for at least 10mins. Then re-install battery> Put clear CMOS jumper to RUN position again. Power computer back up> and boot into the BIOS and configure to your liking paying attention to change a 'few' things at a time only and work your way up to overclock a little at time using a save and reboot between each small number of changes at a time.

 

Now that is the very safest way I know of and is expecially crititcal when in 'uncharted' territory for your board and 'to' use settings you have never tried before.

 

the nForce2 chipset is designed to support 6 ranks max. A configuration of 3 two-rank (traditionally known as double-sided) dimms is pushing the chipset to the max and may require changes in the BIOS - memory frequency decrease, for example. But, decreasing the memory frequency while keeping the AthlonXP 3200+ FSB at spec would not be recommended with the nForce2 chipset because it would suffer from overhead resynchronization penalty. In other words, it would be best to keep the FSB and memory frequency in sync. Have any of the methods that don't require decrease in memory frequency allowed it to work with all three dimms? If not, i'd try to obtain the highest possible FSB while maintaining a 1:1 (sync) FSB/Memory-Frequency ratio.

 

Very good find and very true about the ratio of 1:1 and the fact that the system as a 'whole' will have to be slowed. What the above does not say and is critical is "how much" the whole system MAY have to be slowed and again the statement above is in 'general' and is hoping that the board in use can effectively use the memory that is plugged into the memory slots.

 

You are doing quite well with the two by 512 sticks of memory and the addition of the third 512 stick may not really ever work for you. Most very likely would take a hefty volts increase to maybe 3.2Volts on the memory to supply the needs of that much memory and that EVEN though you may not be running much past 200FSB which is nearly no speed at all on the DFI sisters. And further your best chance of running 3x512 sticks would come after a flash to 6/19 bios and using the option to 'disable CPC' function in the Advanced Chipset Features about half way down the list of options in that menu.

And your Genie bios settings might have to be "adjusted" to look like this which WILL slow the whole system as 3 sticks might not run at 200FSB.

 

CPU Clock Spread Spectrum Disabled

x AGP Clock Spread Spectrum Disabled *

CPU Clock Setting 200Mhz 170

AGP Clock Setting Auto 67

CPU Ratio Auto

DDR DRAM Clock By SPD 1:1

Current DDR Frequency is 200Mhz *would become 170

Current CPU Voltage is 1.64V *would become 1.75V~

Current DIMM Voltage is 2.67V *would become 3.2V~

CPU Voltage Control Auto 1.75V

AGP Voltage Control Auto 1.70V

CHIPSET Voltage Control Auto 1.8V

DRAM Voltage Control Auto 3.2V

 

The 'would become' settings would only show after reboot and entering the bios.

NOTE: no one knows exactly what might have to be done to allow for the poorer memory to run with 3 sticks> IF it will run at all. WHat I have done is to give and example of what " I " might try to do if I just had to try to run 3 sticks of 512 marginal memory.

 

Sincerely, RGone...

[Latem]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Just a few more questions.

 

Is there a deiference b/w 1 GB stick + 1 512MB stick, and 3 512MB stick. and between 3 512MB sticks and 3 256 MB sticks. I guess I am asking would I be having this problem if I have for example:

 

1) 1 x 1 GB stick + 1 x 512MB stick

 

2) 3 x 256 MB sticks.

 

I ask this because of :

 

You are doing quite well with the two by 512 sticks of memory and the addition of the third 512 stick may not really ever work for you. Most very likely would take a hefty volts increase to maybe 3.2Volts on the memory to supply the needs of that much memory...

 

I am not sure exactly what's the problem when you are refering "supply the needs of that much memory"? Is it that 350W (or whatever it truly may be) isn't enough? Or the mobo and the nForce 2 chip just has a hard time handeling more than 1GB of RAM?

I must be missing something here. You guys are saying it could very well be my power supply. It just seems kinda crazy that just 1 stick can make that much difference power wise? That 2 sticks work, but 3 dont?

 

Is it even possible to do more than 1 GB w/ my setup?

Is there any1 here that has more than a gig of ram? Whats your setup/specs like like?

I know I've seen some ppl have 2GB of RAM, but I dont know what specs.

 

Thanks a lot

 

Latem

[mongoled]

Glad to see the help has flooded through, all info mentioned above is gold

 

I cant comment on more ram than 1GB but it is my understanding that the more onboard ram u have the harder it will be to push tighter timings and increase your fsb to super duper levels.

 

Any new info regarding your problem, is it looking better now?

[m0ng0d]

Latem,

 

The better comparison, to me, is not 1Gb vs 512 vs 256... What is more important about the sticks, as you had found, is wether or not they are single or double sided.

 

For me though, I don't think I would ever plug in a 3rd DIMM. If I put two dimms in the slots closest together = "dual channel off". If I put two dimms in the slots on either side of the gap = "dual channel on".

 

If I were to try plug a 3rd Dimm in... I think it would be confusing trying to dual channel a single dimm with another pair.

 

Also by only ever plugging in 2 (even if they are double sided) you will always be under the max of 6 ranks.

 

I think it might be best to treat your 3rd Dimm as a spare:nod: