Angry_Games Posted August 26, 2004 Posted August 26, 2004 I had to do a quick A64 setup for a friend on the weekend and it took me 2 whole days to figure out that you can't set the memory speed directly, you do it by a ratio that acts on the HTT (fsb). AND that it can be explained 3 different ways (166 bios setting/200 stock HTT x CPU HTT, or 5/6 ratio, blah, blah, blah). AND some bioses you had the setting as a DDR speed in the bios (333) and you had to use half that in the calculation. AND they just HAD to throw in that even that's just a user setting and what's really happening is a DIVISOR on the total CPU speed. (Did I really need to know that to change the settings?) heh, welcome to the new nightmare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted August 26, 2004 Posted August 26, 2004 ...BTank and am looking at it closely. Multiply my what "chart"? WELL really I have been doing a great deal of study about the A64 and the terminology of what is what. Names of old stuff has been changed and now there is a DIVISOR and a multiplier to consider when figuring out how N hale fast this thing going? In the preorder "lottery" that is going on and the limited nature of the initial supply of boards> I easily suspect the absolute newb may get one of these boards. I have seen BTank post before and he is no 'newb' by any measuring stick I have!!! Yet he says it took him 2 days to sort the speed thing out. As per usual, AG and I wanted DFI to get us our boards at the least a few hours before the rest so we could prepare and yet my guess is that the usual may well occur. We will be wondering when our boards will come when you guys flood in wanting answers. Well gentleman there will be manuals with the boards. And there will be these links I have given that relate to A64 clock setup. Without the board to prepare and likely without even a manual as I bet they won't be uploaded yet> you are going to have to do some homework and I am trying to find the most knowledgeable information I can find for you all. Doing the best I can at this time to help you guys get ready. Sincerely, RGone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted August 26, 2004 Posted August 26, 2004 ...reported as being one of the very best A64 overclocking tutorials going. The thread I found it in said the same of it as the link I gave to the charts above. That is most are making an error in caluculations at 166 memory speed. But other than that this is one 'fine' read. HOLY A64 clocking cow!!! The remarks from the thread I found that link in @bleedingedge.com by: cool N quiet. cool 'n quiet is offline cool 'n quiet BE Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 63 Default Hi all, Thanks for posting this Andy...the dugu9tweaks article is one of the few really great guides on overclocking Athlon64's, and everyone should read it! In my experience, overclocking (especially the memory) is harder than the article makes out, so I'd like to add a few thoughts which may help those who are just getting into A64 overclocking... [The dugu9tweaks chart for calculating memory dividers has some errors (some combinations in the 133 column are > than 2/3). Also, the article mentions half memory dividers, but I've never seen them.] The key to overclocking A64 is to realize that you aren't overclocking just CPU and memory, but also the HyperTransport I/O link and the clock generator. Overclock ANY one of these too far, and you crash. Find the max of each of these 4 variables, one at a time, by under-clocking the other 3, as described in the article. First find the max HTT (the clock generator). On my K8N Neo, I found a max HTT of 325 which means in theory that I could run DDR650, if such a product is ever released (Pic attached at bottom) Then find max CPU and HyperTransport speeds as described in the article. Memory speed: This is the really complicated one. You just knew it had to be, right? It's a bit harder to do well than the article makes out. We start with the "target memory speed". In BIOS, there is a "max memclock" with choices of 200 (default), 166, 133, and 100. Interpret these as ratios of 200 (1, 5/6, 2/3, and 1/2). Your target memory speed is this ratio x HTT. Example: max memclock of 166, HTT of 325 --> 271mhz target speed. Example: max memclock of 133, HTT of 325 --> 217mhz target speed. Note how drastic a drop in DDR speed that is. It's too bad the max memclock choices are so coarse-grained! Fortunately you can fine-tune by tweaking HTT, though of course that also adjusts CPU and hypertransport, whether you like it or not. Welcome to the complications of A64 overclocking That was the "target" mem speed. The actual mem speed can be lower! The CPU picks a whole number divider which, when applied to the CPU mhz, is the actual mem speed. For safety, it chooses conservatively if there's no perfect match. (Divider is applied to CPU speed because the memory controller is on the CPU, so DDR speed has to be a function of CPU speed.) Example: HTT 300, CPU mult 7x (2100 mhz), max memclock 166 (5/6 ratio). Then target mem speed is 5/6*300=250 (DDR500). CPU now chooses a divider. 2100/8=262.5 is too high. 2100/9 is acceptable (233/DDR466), even though DDR466 is far below the "target" of DDR500! In conclusion, A64 overclocking is tough to do perfectly. Run experiments to find your maximum HTT, hypertransport, CPU and DDR speeds, but then be prepared to compromise. You can (for example) obtain your ideal CPU speed with a surgical setting of HTT and cpu mult, but then you're locked in to an HTT choice that may lead to a DDR speed much less than you want. Plug the following formulas into a spreadsheet to help you find a "good enough" compromise of cpu, DDR, and hypertransport speeds. Cheat sheet: HTT is clock generator. It has a max. Find it, and don't go beyond it. HyperTransport: HTT x HT multiplier. CPU: HTT x CPU multiplier. Memory, part 1: Target mem speed=HTT x ("max memclock"/200) Memory, part 2: Memory divider=the smallest "d" such that CPU mhz/d isn't greater than target mem speed Memory, part 3: Actual mem speed=CPU mhz / memory divider Happy overclocking! Sincerely, RGone.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 :nod: ROTFLMAO!!! PASTED: about an NF3 mobo> I have recently bought the same board and chip as you, just about getting used to this A64 malarky. I had the same problem, needing a voltage boost for any overclock at all which seemed wrong to me to. I have a theory about the mysterious massive undercurrenting, I think that its due to cool'n'quiet remnance in the bioses. Anyway, so I read this thread and tried whats stated above (flashing, pulling power cable, reset cmos, take battery out and load optimised defaults) worked like a charm for stopping the huge vcore fluctuations! I'm typing this at 2.2ghz with stock volts Yet I'm still not being able to get to 2.4Ghz. I tried the modded bios that goes up to 1.8v but no joy. I tried low HTT high multi and vice versa but couldnt get into windows with any combination. END PASTE... Sounds very similar to some stuffs I have seen before. HEhehehehehehehehehehehehee. Long live NF3... RGone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 ... LanParty UT 250gb manual is up. Best written manual I have ever seen for a motherboard. Note also that if you go to the section that speaks about the memory settings and since the 7MystX are in the NF3 bios from the get go> there is a terminology description of the 7MystX settigns that you may read and transpose to your NF2 board. Many many settings on the NF3. Lots of descriptions and tells what to expect with X memory in Y slot and really about the best manual I have ever read to date. Sincerely, RGone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_W Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Sure hope the mobo is as good as this manual. Someone at DFI realized that an enthusiast's mobo deserved an enthusiast's manual. Very nicely done DFI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emil Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 Rgone..... and the Guys............. For those interested to migrate to Athlon 64 soon, this will surely be helpfull ::::: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=2748997...... Wow !! This guy hitechjb1 is just awesome....... Emil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Better A64 divider charts (post #34) and some haleAcious links to follow for understanding... RGone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAE Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 LOL... What's up with all that A64 stuff here Robert? You are still beating the h3ll out of every average overclocked A64 with your rig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 :nod: ...well I have a couple of friends that are absoute video scoring freaks and they live or die by benches. Hehehehe. I have a few frends that are into "whole rig" tuning and setup for use. And then you have somebody that is like myself that is a cross between an air tweak freak and just plain having to be ready to assist a user. I have spent the last 6-7 weeks preparing for the UT 250gb arrival. Studying 'theory' and practice. Looking at the other NF3's that are already out. Seeing the NF3 is not so far removed from the sillyness of NF2. Loading half of the CMOS especially the "user" tweaks into the chipset at bootup> well it ain't real cool at times. NF3 mobo's that have to have battery pulled. The reboot to try to get cpu voltages and in general just some more of the NF2 junk in many respects. AND then the task of using your head for other than a hatrack just to setup the cpu speed. HEhehehehehe. So I am doing my homework. And then you have the computer I am typing from right this minute. A DFI 8KM800MLVF; user computer. A64, 2800+ that I put in the case and installed the drivers and began to compute. Hehehehehehehehee. Got 2 x 1gig Buffalo Tech sticks in at 225FSB and the 1800mhz has become over 2000mhz. Hehehee. Every thing happens now and it boots in about 10 seconds with EIDE drives in the case. Hehehehe. One front fan. One rear fan. One 350watt Power supply. One OEM HSF. HEhehehehee. Just plain user @ss friendly is all I can say. I can hear myself think. And I been playing with the few adjustments this user board has and getting ready for the ones that have never RTFM in history. By the way the manual for the UT 250gb is the best motherboard manual I have ever seen in 6 years. AG has continually asked for better manuals for those who have the ability to read and no matter the cause; we have one with the 250gb that is coming. Well at least the online version I have seen. Hehehehe. So it is not just the speed of computing or clocking that draws me in but the ease of so doing. I am surely going to pound the hale out of the first UT 250gb that I get. You can bet on that. But then when the dust settles> I want a useable computer on air. I am getting the urge to go with an 'ice-water' rig just for benching. Something to really cool when I need it to scorch a bench more easily and yet just tool along with regular water when not looking for a benchmark score. Hehehehehehe. I am also getting a little tired of the ragged edge. It is about like my dirt track racing. Fun on the weekend but my Toyota Camry is a better daily ride. Hehehehehehe. So I just continue to study and try to pull up the 'best' data I can find that the user can avail himself of before the fact. RTFM will be critical to any that have not been inside the A64 box. Hehehehe. I am about 30% more ready than I was 6 weeks ago and I need to get into it fast and thoroughly before the flood of weird begins. Overclocking still has its' pull on me for sure> but I can more easily reach the levels of my NF2 stuff with a mildly clocked A64 and then just add mhz. Hehehehehe. Hale man you know me is jus ole red-nake RGone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGone Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 :confused: ...nature of ALL things computer related and what I have recently found about this subject> I am putting here for those that bother to read this 'only' and not to start a bunch of questions that have no answers. Who to BELIEVE? The site or emails to and from Thermalright! Now the site says XT120 fits?????? Edit: I hate these sites that do not link well. That link is just the default page and I went 3 more clicks down to now see this under the "will fit" listing and what I was marvelling over after the emails to more than one person who questioned Thermalright. Forkin guessing game. DFI LAN PARTY UT 250GB is listed to fit because I copied that from their page this morning. Who in hale knows a thing for real? No body it appears. However: One users experience with IFFYNESS and EARLY guess about fitment of Heat Sinks!!! Just a warning to be careful. That mother is huge and is shown at Thermalright sight on Asus board but that fitment does not look the same as pics of the UT 250gb? Sincerely, RGone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bypolar Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 Here is very easy to read A64 Overclocking guide. this should be a mandatory before threads are Posted. Linky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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