Orthos (discussion)

[winston856]

So I was recently posting in a thread over at the [H]ard|Forums and this guy claims:

Great! (referring to this other guy that has a 'sweet' week 30 conroe chip)

 

 

My week 30A can do 4ghz with only 1.52 Volts stable on AIR!

 

3.6ghz with 1.375 or less......

 

Sounds pretty cool right? Well I then ask him *the* question:

 

Orthos 8+hrs stable?

 

Now it's a legitimate question right? His response:

 

You people and that stupid orthos stable for one giga million hours stable.........

 

Can someone explain tome when and how a regular user will load both cores @ 100% for 8 hours straight other than to let some stressing tool do its thing?

 

Do you Orthos people even get to use a computer for regular stuff, or is orthos all you guys ever do?

 

Orthos On AIR @ 4ghz cannot be done (unless outside in the freezing cold)

 

 

I've been gaming for hours, unpacking / repacking files, editing / converting video, opening the new IE 7 with 8 Home pages all @ the same time without a problem.

 

And that's all I care about............

 

Now I haven't typed up my response but it's going to go something along the lines of "we get our CPU's 100% stable, it's nice to know that your proc isn't going to error out or freeze on you" etc...

 

It got me thinking why we do prime/orthos for as many hours as we do. Well, when multi-threaded games come out I believe both of the cores will be at 100%. So we'll see how stable his system is then.

[Praz]

Every time I read something like that I can't help but laugh. If it was a stock store bought system he had, he'd be screaming for a refund if it failed any type of stability testing. But since it's a system he put together and overclocked anything that causes instability is no longer a valid test. I wouldn't even bother responding to him.

[ReelFiles]

We test for that long because instability can show itself at random times, even after 8 hours of testing instability could show itself, but it's unlikely. Some even test for 24 hours, but 8 is good enough for me.

 

I agree with Praz, you probably just bruised his ego, and it's a lose-lose situation, I wouldn't even bother. My favorite saying comes to mind;

You can lead an butt to water but you can't force him to drink.

[winston856]

I replied along with another forum member:

 

I just like to know that my computer is completely stable in everything I'll ever throw at it. I don't want to say "well...my computer stable at 50% load, but any more I don't know. It might hurt it..."

 

I want to see know that my computer can run balls out for any amount of time and not worry about it freezing/restarting.

 

You may be fine for what you do now, but when multithreaded games start coming out and peg the CPU at 100%, you may find yourself not as stable as you first thought.

 

To me there's two kinds of stable: 1. The "yeah my computer can un-zip files and surf the 'net and play some games and rip some mp3's and run super-pi 1M stable. 2. 100% balls to the wall stable (Orthos 12+hr/s) so that you know that NOTHING will faze your computer...Save for a power outage

 

Other member:

 

Ok, that's all you care about. Fine. As long as you're not running into problems on what you do, then fine.

 

What would you say in my case then? For everything I "do", it is more or less stable. However, even with everything stock, I can't run orthos or any of the 3dmarks on loop without my machine locking up after a while. It can be as long as 8 hours, or as short as 10 minutes. It's really intermittent. However, for the games I play (really only CS), it's fine for over an hour of play. We use orthos as an indicator of stability. If you're saying it's stable for what you do, then orthos doesn't matter, then fine for you. But it's not truly stable. Maybe you'd be pissed too if you couldn't run stock everything without orthos locking up your .? Or maybe if you ran seti in the background? Would you be comfortable for it maybe miscalculating values and missing the extraterrestrial?!?! Or maybe hell seti will even crash your computer? I bet you'd be pissed then.

 

 

Here's the thread in-case you guys want a funny read

[Guest RohypnoL]

I dont prime my CPU myself, either. I just o/c it and play some games. If I get a crash, i'll tone it down till I'm stable. Currently i'm game stable @ 2904 MHZ, 1.54V on Watercooling.

Notice the slogan under the name

<---------

[ReelFiles]

Well that explains a lot, [H] is not a good forum, imo. and that's putting it nicely.

You're better than that, don't lower yourself down to their standards.

[red930]

I agree with Praz, you probably just bruised his ego, and it's a lose-lose situation, I wouldn't even bother. My favorite saying comes to mind;You can lead an butt to water but you can't force him to drink.

 

Agreed.

 

And no matter what, we all have a different version of the 'right' way and the 'wrong' way to overclock. No matter what he won't budge on his theoretical stability, what's more having that at 4GHz isn't helping him at all, because he doesn't use any programs that need that much speed, 3.3GHz would do him exactly as well in any game and I'll bet he could make it Orthos stable very easily.

 

But whatever, it is an ego thing, and it certainly is a common sense thing (among overclockers) in my opinion.

 

I am very glad to see more and more people showing Orthos stable processors at XS, though anymore they just ask what the max FSB is on a new board without bothering to find if that FSB is actually usable.

[Angry_Games]

[Smoken Joe]

Dont put [H]forum too much everyone has their own opinion and Unfortunaly most people seem only to learn from their own experience. There database seems to have some prime required too there will always be people that want to take the easy way out untill they get bitten by it.

 

When these people loose there hard drive in the middle of a game, scramble the bios or the like from a bad overclock they are much more likly to use caution in the future.

 

At least that guy can play games and such for a little wile before crashing. The people that cant even use their computer to post on the forums are the ones that drive me crazy. If you cant make your computer stable enough to actualy use for anything why bother? Many of the 'experienced' suidide shot guys have a second computer to actualy use.

[winston856]

I agree with you guys, I think this guy's posts are pretty funny now.

 

Here's his reply to my last post:

 

I know what the purpose of orthos is.......I just don't think it is the same rule for everyone.....

 

I have my computer running @ 3.6ghz with 1.387 (BIOS) 1.34 in Windows and it is on Day and Night.

 

Constantly processing a 40000+ music library, playing with small video files. If I want orthos stable I have to use about 1.41V in Bios.

 

I can boot @ 4ghz with 1.48V and play around a lot with those settings. Gaming and 3DMark06 require 1.52V though.

 

I will in the near future upgrade to water cooling or a cascade system and only then will I bother with the orthos 8 hour marathon for your pleasure, Oh wait, someone said that it should be 12 hours instead, and now that I think about it, someone else said that problem would only show after 24 hours or so, and others say that 48 hours straight wouldn't be that bad...

 

I mean WTF? Can you really stress your computer that long during a real life operation?

[red930]

I agree with you guys, I think this guy's posts are pretty funny now.

 

Here's his reply to my last post:

 

Well....alright.

 

No offense to you (because you think like most of us do here at DFI-Street) he obviously isn't going to agree with our thinking.

 

While flaming this guy may feel good (and perhaps might even be warranted, depending on how you feel) it just isn't needed man.

 

We all know that there are very, very many people that believe in SUPERPI stability, much less game stability, much less 3dmark stability, much less Orthos/Prime stabilty. They are obviously in minority here, but other forums have no issues with it (and thats fine....for them)

 

So anyways, I'm sorry but he's not an unusual overclocker by any means, and it isn't fair to flame him on another forum.

 

Essentially, I'm closing this because if he posted the same stuff here, it'd be closed, with an explanation why (Orthos/Prime/SP2004 stability rules, if you don't like it; leave) but we just just can't allow flaming of random other forums and their members. :cool: