dr_bowtie Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 you have this situation in every aspect of life.... For example....How many of you follow racing of any sort... you also have number chasers in this sport...but you have to kinds of number chasers...power numbers chasers that only accomplish half as much and then you have time number chasers... this is where the result is at... For example...some people build engines for high horsepower (overclocking...) and in doing so think that just because they have more horsepower they will be faster than the person with less....not really so... Now these power number chasers usually tune their power numbers on a Dynometer...(measure engine brake horsepower) but the only bad thing is that this is a synthetic test just like gaming bench marks as there as still many other variables that contribute to scores.... For instance....I can take 2 indentical engines and build them to make the exact same horse power but on engine be quicker than the other in racing.... See the Dyno only measures power of the engines...like benchmarks but...The Dyno cant effectively measure the ROA of any given engine....which ROA mean Rate Of Acceleration.... how quick one engine revs from it's idle to it's max power means (RPM limit) and until you can effectively do that you cant fully compare two given products.... Same goes for video cards.... benches are just a proximity of performance means.... and until a real world test can be fully simulated to test different cards the same you just not going to get accurate results... Oh yea...Dyno number chasers have the e-pen thing too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrento Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 Actually Dynos measure the amount of torque given by the engine... and in Formula 1 the engines are tuned specifically for each track, yet whats done in the lab with hundred computers has most of the time little to whats going to happen at the race, sometimes even the qualifying... and the results are sometimes far from what the doctors and engineers were expecting: just ask Toyota :shake: But your example is good, and if each game represents a diferent track... then there are "engines" and "tune ups" for each. I wish all were as clear and easy to run as HL2, but thats like an oval racing (easy and boring) in comparison to the rest being like Monaco, the complete opposite (problematic and slow) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Timmay Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 I have a question for Timmay and Thrax... If you don't like those benches ...why do you do them? ...why do you use the OCDB? 1. Do them? I do them so I can get an entry in to the OCDB/SSDB and help other people with settings that they might have issues with. 2. See 1. Its the only reason its installed on my machine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrento Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 Hmm, I take back everything I said defending 3dMark... I just visited a forum where there was a huge thread about "measuring the e-penis", or in other words about 3dMark. This thread was special, nothing similar in DFI-Street... over there everybody was really trying their best to show off their "stuff", it was really funny and this DFI-Street thread opened my eyes to it. I am too naive to see things for what they are and I never realized how bad things were... thats a mistake I am not going to make again, hopefully; I have my own nature and I know I won't notice these things again... Whats even funier is how even women in that thread were doing the same "e-penis" show off thing... the irony is to laugh really hard at. Again I haven't seen that over here and most DFI-Street members don't have anything to worry about... we kind of use 3dMark for what its good for, and we are fighting over nothing right now. LOL, that forum is a place I am not going again... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshadow Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 Ha! Perfect representation Dr_Bowtie! And you are quite correct. The one thing that you must also take into account is the user. If a user doesnt set up his rig right, and does'nt know crap about operating it, (like me ) then well, his computer may as well be a 386. Same with a car, it all comes down to the operator. On a lighter note, I just bought an x1900xt and I am impatiently awaiting it's arrival so that I can fully test it, and unlock all those visiual effects that I have never seen before. Bye bye good ole' x1300.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_bowtie Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 Yep.... I know Dynos measure torque and horspower is a derivative of torque...in simple terms...torque is how much weight you can pull...horsepower is how fast you can pull that weight...but...I was putting it in the easiest terms to understand by the general people... You can really get into a debate about 3dmarks...but the short story is....that they are used mostly for stability testing as there have been a few cases that users could pass prime for 12hours but not pass a certain 3dmark app... I dont deem a rig stable unless it can run any app you throw at it that it could run at stock setting....(albeit slower at stock) We also use these app for meeting the rules requirement of the data base entry....This forum preeches stabilty over anything as I am sure you and anyone else is aware of... I made my first entry this last week or so and thats only because I added myself to the 3G's club (with help) and I had nothing better to do... not for braggin rights... as I am in the bottom few but...I made the cut as well as any one could.... But I with others would like to see a more acurate test of certain types for some hardware and that basically what this thread started as... It's like H_G has stated in another thread....His Conroe-crossfire rig kills in 3dmark score compared to Mama's rig with a 7 series nVidia card... but as he stated even though he kills in 3dmark his card sucked butt when trying to play a certain game ( I believe it was never winter nights 2) but Mama's rig ran sweet as butter.... Just goes to show you right there 3dmark score mean absolutely nothing.... go check the thread out for yourself... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrento Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 Work = Force X Distance... with an engine torque is the twisting effort aplied to the rotating axis connected to the engine, thats whats measured by the dynamometer which then gives you the amount of force from the torque it measured. Its all the same thing like you said, and I am probably writting it all wrong; me no english, and translating physics laws and theorems is not what I do for living Question: is there, in the real world out there, a game exactly the same as 3dMark that when you test one and test the other receive the same performance result? Could it be such a game? Its possible, but I really doubt it since even between games sharing the same 3D engine the performance is quite diferent because the developers throw optimizations at their new games all the time and each ends up diferent than the other. This is why its impossible to really compare systems with similar but not identical hardware based on benchmark or game performance... that H_G anecdote about Never Winter Nights 2 is a great example of how impossible things are in the real world, and one flaw is someone else's forte. In short: you might be the king of somewhere, but you are the pauper somewhere else... if we never forget this we might have a better and richer life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thespin Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 In racing, gearing is extremely important because that is how the driver gets the most from the engine. There may be times when the driver wants to save on fuel and so he might want to keep the engine around the RPM where it makes max torque. At times where he wants to impart the most energy to the car, he will try to keep RPM up in the range where it makes max horsepower. So each track will possibly require not only special tuning but special set of gearing. What the Hey! I say epenis contests can be fun ... especially when you rig your rig to put out numbers at the top ... By the way, I am not a gamer but when I run 3DMark0X all I see is games ... aren't they extracts from REAL games ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrento Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 In racing, gearing is extremely important because that is how the driver gets the most from the engine. There may be times when the driver wants to save on fuel and so he might want to keep the engine around the RPM where it makes max torque. At times where he wants to impart the most energy to the car, he will try to keep RPM up in the range where it makes max horsepower. So each track will possibly require not only special tuning but special set of gearing. In F1 the driver only push a button to do that Nah, actually what you say is true... the driving style, less agressive on both acceleration after corners and rpm limits saves fuel, there is also a diferent style for saving tires, and another one for saving the engine if its telling the team (or scuderia) thats on its final minutes via telemetry. What the Hey! I say epenis contests can be fun ... especially when you rig your rig to put out numbers at the top ... By the way, I am not a gamer but when I run 3DMark0X all I see is games ... aren't they extracts from REAL games ? Hmm, in short... NOPE, there aren't any games out there based on the 3dMark0X engine... they might be "similar", and that to a certain point only... but even with games using the exact 3D engine huge diferences always exist, so imagine how diferent 3dMark is to real games. Remember Doom3 Timedemo? I wish all games had something similar... that was closer to real game benchmark and all you had to do was open the console to type the command Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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