My new system

[TheGeekMistress]

It would seem to me the mhz and bandwidth are as interrelated as hp and torque. One determines the other with modifiers of course.

 

200hp at 5250 rpm means your motor has 200 ftlbs of torque while 200hp at 52500rpm means you have 20 ft lbs of torque.

 

Likewise, 200 ft lbs of torque at 525 rpm is only 20 hp and 200ft lbs at 52500 rpm means you have 2000hp.

 

The closest parallel I can come up with is that MHZ are torque, modified by latencies = bandwidth

 

and vice versa

 

bandwidth modified by an inverse of the latencies = mhz

 

The key thing is, which value most closely relates to hp, Mhz or bandwidth? I personally side with bandwidth from my own experiences.

 

EDIT; Also, if we were to view mhz and bandwidth as hp/torque, different types of applications would favor one or the other.

 

A low torque high HP Honda S2000 wouldn't do very well hauling 10k lb trailer up a hill, however, a high torque low HP Dodge Ram diesel would do it easily. It is easy to make the parallel that something like superpi would prefer bandwidth over mhz or which ever it may or may not prefer and the exact opposite apply to things like video benchmarks.

 

This is starting to make too much sense to me and I need to test it out.

since the mem controller is dependant on your core frequency and you have loose timings at higher frequencies, the only way you're going to get a better superPI score is to overclock your cpu higher MHz = lower lats and higher internal bandwidth, and maybe get better ram for tighter timings at higher mem bus speeds.

 

TGM

[TheGeekMistress]

TGM, you are just a fountain of knowledge.

I was wondering if you hold any certifications or degrees. How's it going with your WC setup?

 

Btw, I think I have ludacris speed, as I am dual priming, surfing the web with Firefox and working in Paint Shop Pro right now. hehe.

hehe, thanks. no, i hold no certs. i'm totally self taught. i've been overclocking/modding/tweaking computers since '95 ...so it's all my curiousity, teadious time consuming work, and a lot of reading over the years.

 

the water cooling is working and installed, but i'm not getting the same results as the last mobo i was unsing. i had bought a new DFI NF3 skt754 and a Newark cpu and on air i could clock it to 2950, then on water i could hit 3200mhz+ ...but then the board died and fried my x800 along with it. so waiting for my RMA's to come back i got another DFI NF3 skt754 and on air, i got even better, a 3000mhz overclock. but on water i'm now only getting 3100mhz! WTF!?!? it's got me totally frustrated. the variables from the first setup with water running 3200mhz to what i have now are: 7800gs replaced the x800, new replacement motherboard, and a short loop just running the cpu on water now instead of the cpu. chipset, and vga, then instead of just plain old distilled water in my loop, i'm running MCP-5 fluid from Danger Den instead.

 

whats totally odd is that the temps are lower with the new fluid but the overclock is lower!?!? at 3100mhz it idles at 31~33C and full loads at 42~44C but yet the highiest i can get is 3100mhz, only 100mhz over the 948U air cooling. thats just not right.

 

i've checked the grease and reseated the cpu, flashed the bios to 623 official, 623 TMOD and 504 TMOD. i've set all the setting in the bios to defualts except for the overclocking settings, and then i went back to my, now memorized, whole bios tweaked settings. i've unplugged everything off the mobo cept the vid card and cpu, set the jumper to clear cmos, then removed the cmos batt. let it set for about 15 mins. and then replaced everything and no changes at all. the only thing that's different with this mobo is once i clear my cmos, the mobo will go to post screen, then i hit delete to go into the bios and it just sit blank. i noticed that with the cmos reset that the memory runs off the SPD and my TCCD ram sets itself to cas 2.5 but neither of my TCCD will run at 2.5 period. which i find odd. so i have to pull both sticks out, everytime i clear the cmos, i have to pull out the TCCD and put in one stick of my BH5 and i can get into the bios, then set the ram timings manually to cas 2.0, then turn off the machine and pull the BH5 and replace both sticks of my TCCD and i'm perfectly fine after that. what a f'in pain! why won't the damn ram run 2.5? it's freakin G.Skill 1GBLA 2x512 TCCD ram.

 

needless to say, i'm at my wits end with this. maybe it's the replacement mobo that's screwing everything up. i didn't have any of these problems when i had my first board, but then again, that one died on me. *sighs*

 

TGM

[ReelFiles]

Very impressive, you know a lot for someone self-taught. I think you should go to school or get some certifications, you definately know more than I do, and I got an Associates in Networking and a PC Tech diploma within 2 years, with a 3.5 average. From what I've seen you post I would think you would do rather well in a Computer Science major.

 

That sucks about the memory, did you run memtest on those sticks? Which slots are they installed in? Can't you just switch the TCCDwith the BH-5 permamently?

[red930]

whats totally odd is that the temps are lower with the new fluid but the overclock is lower!?!? at 3100mhz it idles at 31~33C and full loads at 42~44C but yet the highiest i can get is 3100mhz, only 100mhz over the 948U air cooling. thats just not right.

 

Sure you didn't use a higher than normal voltage getting it to 3.2? I did the exact same thing on this opty, hit 3.2 (not completely stable, but booted fine) but was running well over 1.7 volts.

[TheGeekMistress]

Very impressive, you know a lot for someone self-taught. I think you should go to school or get some certifications, you definately know more than I do, and I got an Associates in Networking and a PC Tech diploma within 2 years, with a 3.5 average. From what I've seen you post I would think you would do rather well in a Computer Science major.

 

That sucks about the memory, did you run memtest on those sticks? Which slots are they installed in? Can't you just switch the TCCDwith the BH-5 permamently?

thanx, i am thinking about either computer science or computer programmer, or even architecture b/c i love design. but the only thing i really know loads about is computer hardware and config.

 

no i didn't run memtest, never really thought about it b/c the last time i was using memtest with my first NF3 skt754 it showed no errors. swirching slots has no effect, using one stick has no effect, and my TCCD actually overclock better than my BH5 since my mobo only has a mem volt to 3.1v and the TCCD uses less voltage than my BH5. on top of that i love the 1gig density of my TCCD over the 512meg density of my BH5.

 

i might just have to face up to the fact that i got a "lame duck" of a mobo for my replacement mobo compared to the first. but i'm not giving up, i can't, i'm obessed! lol

 

TGM

[TheGeekMistress]

Sure you didn't use a higher than normal voltage getting it to 3.2? I did the exact same thing on this opty, hit 3.2 (not completely stable, but booted fine) but was running well over 1.7 volts.

no, i used 1.55v to get 3000mhz on air and i believe 1.625v or maybe 1.65v to get 3200mhz on water.

 

TGM

[NEOAethyr]

Try holding insert after a clear cmos to boot samsung.

I have the same issue, diff board as you know, others had the same issue with the board I had though.

 

It's not cas.

I modded my spd, and that did'nt fix it.

So I added support for all cas, just the same, I figuered I might as well since it did'nt matter.

 

 

You might want to try getting some more generic jug water again ^^.

I would not trust some special fluid for anything.

At least it's worth a shot, try to get the same stuff you had before, and of course add a tiny bit of wetter to it to prevent bacteria.

Bottled water is crap I guess, plain old jug water is the shiz...

There is plenty of brand out there, however, blah blah lol.

 

I defently can't help much on that, it's been ages since I looked up the purity of jug water.

[TheGeekMistress]

Try holding insert after a clear cmos to boot samsung.

I have the same issue, diff board as you know, others had the same issue with the board I had though.

 

It's not cas.

I modded my spd, and that did'nt fix it.

So I added support for all cas, just the same, I figuered I might as well since it did'nt matter.

 

 

You might want to try getting some more generic jug water again ^^.

I would not trust some special fluid for anything.

At least it's worth a shot, try to get the same stuff you had before, and of course add a tiny bit of wetter to it to prevent bacteria.

Bottled water is crap I guess, plain old jug water is the shiz...

There is plenty of brand out there, however, blah blah lol.

 

I defently can't help much on that, it's been ages since I looked up the purity of jug water.

ok, i'll try the delete key after cmos clear. thx

 

when i used the ditilled water, b/c you must use ditilled for purity andlower electrical conductivity, when i used just distilled water, my temp were about 3~4C higher at idle than they are with the MCP-5 fluid. with the distilled water i was getting at 3150mhz around 34C and full load around 48C ....i'm running at 3133mhz right now and i'm getting 31~32C idle and 42~44C load so i don't think it's the fluid. it just makes me mad b/c with the first board it was rock solid ar 3150mhz and could be stabled out at 3200mhz and topped out at 3250mhz. grrr

 

one thing i did just notice ....i went and rebooted my machine and it would load to the desktop, but lock up striaght away. so i went into safe mode which boots up to 3200mhz, but i went in with my current 3133mhz and i turned off everything in the msconfig startup tab. then i rebooted into windows and this time i loaded fine.

 

i'm thinking i need to do a freash install. i think this OS is toast from overclock/tweak testing, lol.

 

i dunno, somehow i've got to figure this out.

 

TGM

[TheGeekMistress]

there's just gotta be something wrong when high performance water cooling system only gets you 100mhz overclock, over air cooling. *sigh*

 

TGM

[THunDA]

ok, i'll try the delete key after cmos clear. thx

 

psssst ! he said INSERT.. delete will get you back into bios..

 

 

:shake:

[TheGeekMistress]

oh ya, you're right i meant insert, just was thinking delete for bios, lol.

 

TGM

[Angry_Games]

there's just gotta be something wrong when high performance water cooling system only gets you 100mhz overclock, over air cooling. *sigh*

 

TGM

no

 

there's nothing wrong

 

the problem that most of you don't seem to grasp yet is that aircooling is pretty much maximized these days...technology has brought us to the edge of the best cooling on air...ask the guys from DangerDen and Swiftech...they'll tell you the same thing.

 

And water...water will only run your gear at or near room temp (ambient water/air temps). It can wick away voltage related heat better than air, but not anything close to phase-change/subzero cooling.

 

 

This is just another one of those rumors or un-facts as I like to call them that people still believe in (like memory timings are important on A64's lol).

 

Watercooling is NOT going to give you more overclock. I have NEVER been able to get more than 5% overclock maximum going from air to water....because, as I said, aircoolers are at a maximum efficiency these days, and so is water. There just isn't going to be a difference in overclocking.

 

Temps...now there's a difference. And if your aircooled overclock was netting 70C and limiting you to 2500Mhz, then of course a good water setup will bring you down to say 40C and get you up to 2900Mhz etc.

 

But

 

 

I, and 99% of the rest of you, can hit 2900Mhz on air @ 60C, and switching to water will only give you maybe 2950Mhz, but you will be back down to 45C or such.

 

 

This is just the way it is.

 

To gain a couple more %, you cut off the IHS...but it still won't give you but a couple % increase maybe...but it WILL lower your temps a few degrees more.

 

 

 

 

 

this is the reality of water vs air cooling.

 

oh

 

and watercooling, if done right, is silent lol.

 

 

oh

 

and also watercooling the gpu can have a significant impact, but again, if you have a killer air cooler like a Zalman on your gpu...you won't see much more overclock on a gpu when going to water either