MMO games stutter really bad in big populated areas

[RichAC]

I think someone deleted my last reply to you.. Guess the discussion is over dude. The thousands of people with problems this was probably benefiting should go buy consoles now lol.

 

and yes i was using the pc during the first test forgot that would influence the results. I ran it again on HDtach and got similar minimum results to yours. between 70-90.

 

I just took out the two 1gb kingston memory chips out of the mobo and booted up with the two 2gb samsungs, same exact performance. I don't think theres anything wrong with my ram but theres not much else i can do to test that without having new ram chips.

 

I'm thinking about getting a cheap ssd for my O/S and an mmo game what do you think? I have a feeling i'm just cpu limited.......which is nuts since I use to play wow on a p4! The graphics in these games do look nicer, but not by that much...and even on the lowest settings there is no diff at all...  i'm still trying to get a wow key to test that game on this system.

Edited January 25, 2013 by RichAC

[wevsspot]

Rich - three separate threads were merged into one (all the threads dealing with MMO game stutter).  Your thread on BF3 multiplayer game lag was left as an independent thread.

[RichAC]

 

 

Even in towns, GW has hard and soft population limits, so may not give an accurate feel. Yes, RTS = real-time strategy. Nothing free that I can think of and don't want to tell you to go out and spend money just to troubleshoot. I believe there's a starter edition of SC2 for free, but not sure what that provides. If you bought the recent THQ Humble Bundle, you'll have copies of Company of Heroes and Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War. I think it'd be very hard to generate a ton of units in CoH though...not sure about DoW, as I haven't played the original.

 

FYI, that evga thread is from 2010, not 2007. I also wouldn't be so quick to blame it on f2p games and whatnot as I've played several MMOS, both P2P and F2P and have never experienced the issues you're encountering, which includes Global Agenda and LOTRO (though haven't played the latter since beta). You seem to be under the impression that games turn to F2P because they aren't optimized, but that's not the case at all. Some could argue, apart from WoW, that F2P games are under more stress than P2P because they typically attract more players, especially at launch.

 

The two most recent MMOs I've played are RIFT and RaiderZ. RIFT is P2P, but I believe you can get a trial if you want to check it out. RaiderZ is F2P, but I don't think it's officially released yet, so you'd have to apply for beta and hope to get in, or find someone with a key.

I think technical difficulties are the main reasons people are quitting these games. It seems the the newer the windows and game patches get, the worse performance gets. Hey i could be wrong. But the abundant threads upon threads upon threads of people complaining about the same issues are pretty clear to me.

 

I think the most limiting and problem factor on my pc is my cpu.....but I played WoW on a p4 back in the days! lol and the grahpics weren't that much worse then these games. and i think the fact it ran well was the main reason it was popular. call me crazy.... who knows how it runs nowadays though, th3 fact its probably more bloated and people are using win 7 64 might have changed things, but i'm assuming it still runs the best and is still popular. I'm trying to get a trial key to test.

 

But anyways.... you don't have those issues huh? thats nice. most people apparenlty do.

 

lemme ask you a question.... would going from 6b 1066hz to 8gb 1600hz make any noticeable diff. I'm thinking probably not. and it would be better to get an ssd hdd?

 

thanks for your patience.....

 

WoW was purposely made to be playable on as many computers as possible, thus the dated, cartoony graphics.

 

Again, stop claiming that "most people" experience the issues you describe. They don't. MOST people play the aforementioned games just fine. Just because you find a few threads on the subject, don't forget that thousands to millions of people play each MMO. The percentage of players with problems like yours is miniscule. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated, but stop trying to pin this on some great big industry problem. There's no conspiracy here.

 

As for your RAM, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think increasing your RAM is going to help because I'm currently only running 4GB and not getting your problems. That's assuming your RAM is indeed perfectly fine and they're not actually corrupt despite what Memtest+ tells you. I also do not have an SSD in my current rig, so I can't propose that would fix your problem either. However, if it is indeed an issue with your hard drive getting overworked, then obviously that would be at least mitigated by an SSD that would run significantly faster.

 

 

 

oh boy.   All i can tell you is pc gaming is dying.   Even this forum is pretty barren.  Years ago i found out about this site through friends and we use to use the service guide on here  for windows 98 and xp....before i even knew about blackvipers page.    I have my opinions as to why and you have yours.  maybe you dont' think its dying at all.    But now i don't even know many computer geeks anymore in real life.   Most of my friends just have slow performing laptops and ipads and aren't as computer savy anymore.

 

BF3 is a ghost town now.   not many 64 man servers in North America.  I only see a dozen in my browser usually.     People on my friends list quitting the game...some with the same exact issues as me.     We talking a game that prolly hundreds of thousands bought.   That doesn't concern you?     threads upon threads about lag and spikes.    Dice made alot of the data client site to help with the shabby netcode...but now that just invites more botting.     Same for aion.   Just do a google search.   threads about lag and bots.  The security in that game is ridiculous....once u play and see all the goldspammers you understand why.    The game is now free and they combined many servers and moved everythign to texas.   Do you think people are just playing other games now?   they are all dying.

 

Maybe you have different opinions as to why these games are not popular,.  maybe you think thousands of people just dont' know how to build a pc.   But  I for one will be buying a console,  not because i like them better.....but because i have no choice.  If i want to play sports games or play with less technical difficulties and hardware advantages,  and just simply more people in my own area of the world.  I have no choice.  Things need to change.

 

Maybe these game developers no longer care about pcs for many legitimate reasons...but if enough people report on the issues at least the hardware developers can help.  I assume they care because why else would anyone build a higher end rig if not for music or video editing,   then gaming.    

 

The problem is there is so many people like you who say they have no issues.....that it causes a problem.  Theres enough of you for them to have an excuse not to care.

 

Maybe i'm just too picky,  i don't know.  I feel like a dying breed.   But to me this is not acceptable.  And more people need to complain about it....instead of just assuming their pc sucks...lol

Edited January 25, 2013 by RichAC

[RichAC]

Hi Rich,

 

I appreciate your apology, I'm sorry if I sounded a bit abrupt on the other thread, so you have my apologies for that too .

 

Yes, you could check using 2x1GB as a pair aswell as the 2x2GB pair and see if they affect anything. You are correct that the modules must be the same size to run in dual-channel mode.

 

As this issue is recurring in multiple games, it is unlikely it will be an issue with compatibility with all the games. I play Battlefield 3 and a number of MMOs regularly and don't experience any lag that cannot be attributed to hardware bottlenecks. Generally speaking, programs that run on Windows x64 will work on Intel and AMD technology due to the unified x86-64 instruction process. All consumer processors with 64-bit manufactured by AMD or Intel will be based on this.

 

I am personally unaware of any software to measure the usage of individual RAM sticks but perhaps someone else will know.

 

Hope this helps,

 

- Euro

 

 

Apparenltyl i have two samsung 2gb ddr3 ch9 chips.   I tried booting up with just those.  I took out the two kingston 1gb chips.

 

i loaded up the game and same exact performance.  Constant hdd caching and hitching in the big populated areas.

 

I could boot up with the two 1gb chips but then i would not have enough ram to test the games...  To add,   The memory does get loaded.   till i have very little free when i check the task manager.    If I totally disabled the page file just to test.  would i bsod? lol.  I've been afraid to do that.   i do have 6gbs  and i never use more then 4.

 

maybe its just my processor.   The phenoms have a lot of problems because games especially older ones have more single layer programming from which i understand.  Which is why all these programmers encourage intel processors which handle that type of processing better.  But people still have alot of problems even with them.

 

games like bf3 are programmed much better which is why my amd phenom runs that game pretty well.   Minus the annoying chat lag bug that effects long ticket servers, that affects all types of hardware.

 

the slots on the mobo are labeled 1 2 3 4.  So i assume the O/S would use the first two slots first?   which is what the two 2gb chips are in.   THe problem is these games alone can use almost 2gbs.  So i prolly need new ram chips to truly test this issue i'm thinking.

 

I assumed trying the two 1gb chips in the first two slots and two 2gb chips in the other  two slots would not be optimal,  but i'm not sure what do you think?   the mobo manual doesn't even specify which slots to put them in.  It onlyl specifies   the two identicl chips must be in slot 1 and 2.   and two identical chips for slot 3 and 4.

 

tks again for the advice.

 

 

inb4 waco says i'm chasing ghosts

Edited January 25, 2013 by RichAC

[EuroFight]

In theory, the RAM usage should be distributed evenly between all the slots. The order of the sticks in the slots should not affect it in any way.

 

If you would have to buy a new RAM stick to test it, I would just go for the SSD as it would be more likely to solve your issue, as well as provide an all-round performance boost.

[ClayMeow]

oh boy.   All i can tell you is pc gaming is dying.   Even this forum is pretty barren.  Years ago i found out about this site through friends and we use to use the service guide on here  for windows 98 and xp....before i even knew about blackvipers page.    I have my opinions as to why and you have yours.  maybe you dont' think its dying at all.    But now i don't even know many computer geeks anymore in real life.   Most of my friends just have slow performing laptops and ipads and aren't as computer savy anymore.

 

BF3 is a ghost town now.   not many 64 man servers in North America.  I only see a dozen in my browser usually.     People on my friends list quitting the game...some with the same exact issues as me.     We talking a game that prolly hundreds of thousands bought.   That doesn't concern you?     threads upon threads about lag and spikes.    Dice made alot of the data client site to help with the shabby netcode...but now that just invites more botting.     Same for aion.   Just do a google search.   threads about lag and bots.  The security in that game is ridiculous....once u play and see all the goldspammers you understand why.    The game is now free and they combined many servers and moved everythign to texas.   Do you think people are just playing other games now?   they are all dying.

 

Maybe you have different opinions as to why these games are not popular,.  maybe you think thousands of people just dont' know how to build a pc.   But  I for one will be buying a console,  not because i like them better.....but because i have no choice.  If i want to play sports games or play with less technical difficulties and hardware advantages,  and just simply more people in my own area of the world.  I have no choice.  Things need to change.

 

Maybe these game developers no longer care about pcs for many legitimate reasons...but if enough people report on the issues at least the hardware developers can help.  I assume they care because why else would anyone build a higher end rig if not for music or video editing,   then gaming.    

 

The problem is there is so many people like you who say they have no issues.....that it causes a problem.  Theres enough of you for them to have an excuse not to care.

 

Maybe i'm just too picky,  i don't know.  I feel like a dying breed.   But to me this is not acceptable.  And more people need to complain about it....instead of just assuming their pc sucks...lol

 

 

Geez, this is exactly what I was talking about. Get off your high horse and stop acting like your problems represent the state of the industry. Again, you are NOT in the majority. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

 

If you think PC gaming is dying, here's a list of 50 PC-exclusive games scheduled for release this year alone. You can believe what you want, but PC gaming is no where near death, and some would even say it's seen a recent resurgence due to the consoles being on their last legs and the indie gaming scene.

 

We'll see how the PS3 version of Defiance compares to the PC version, but PC is still the place to go to play MMOs, and no good RTS will ever be on a console.

 

You're right about one thing though - you are of a dying breed, the breed of people that have forecast the end of PC gaming for years now.

[RichAC]

In theory, the RAM usage should be distributed evenly between all the slots. The order of the sticks in the slots should not affect it in any way.

 

If you would have to buy a new RAM stick to test it, I would just go for the SSD as it would be more likely to solve your issue, as well as provide an all-round performance boost.

ya i think this what i'm gonna do.   Do you recommend any?   a reasonably priced 60gb perhaps?

 

 

and i just booted up with just the two 1gb sticks in the first 2 slots.  guis are not any faster.  everytime something lags I hear the I hear the hdd caching think thats my best bet.

 

actually with just these 2 gbs in now my pc is lagging like crazy gonna add the other two back i have almost nothing free...lol.

Edited January 25, 2013 by RichAC

[EuroFight]

Okay then, I just thought the issue might be RAM related, if you say you have lag with 2GB, imagine me testing my rig on 3DMark 11 with 1GB RAM

 

OCZ Vertex 3 drives are generally fairly reasonably priced, although I have no experience with them myself, so you may want to gain a second opinion. I have used the Intel series of SSDs, they are pretty good but expensive.

[RichAC]

Okay then, I just thought the issue might be RAM related, if you say you have lag with 2GB, imagine me testing my rig on 3DMark 11 with 1GB RAM

 

OCZ Vertex 3 drives are generally fairly reasonably priced, although I have no experience with them myself, so you may want to gain a second opinion. I have used the Intel series of SSDs, they are pretty good but expensive.

It might be. but i don't have other ram to test. I thought maybe slow ram. But from what your telling me....even going from 1060 to 1660mhz won't be really noticeable. and I have 6gbs when i rarely ever go past 4 if that, so more ram won't make a diff either. I thought my hdd an issue. but every test and benchmark checks out.

 

maybe a vram issue possibly? I only have 1gb on my card. I dunno man I think its just the game and my phenom 2.8ghz cpu. Theres way too many people complaining about the same issues. I think an ssd will help some. I dont' think it will improve my fps at all.... but maybe it will help with the hitching.

 

I mean its one thing for fps to drop.... thats normal i understand i have cpu limitations and in a game like that i will prolly drop to 20-30 fps with 100 dudes on screen in a huge open map, even with my quad core. I can live with that. But the fact graphics settings don't do anything to effect performance, leads me to believe poor optimization in the game. and My cpu should not be spiking and hitching the game so much.

 

But the fact the spikes cooncide with hdd access, I'm hoping an ssd will minimize that, but i'm not really positive.

 

In that thread i linked about an aion discussion, some guy described the experience after buying an ssd. He said the game still hitched when loading new areas.....but he didn't have the constant hdd caching. for example just when turning around. But he still had alot of hitching. It almost sounded like he was trying to convince himself like so many do...hah...cough..... Which makes me wary. Maybe get it from microcenter and just return it. Alot of people have bought ssd's for bf3 and have had nothing but problems. Only game i would put on the ssd would be my mmo. these mmos are huge though i'm not sure 32gb would be enough for the o/s and the mmo. I might need 60 gb.

 

I do sometimes notice some slow graphical loads in the windows desktop sometimes. Sometimes some hitching in the windows.....which i was attributing to my hdd dying. But its nothing horrible. nothing like using windows with jus those 2gbs lol. From what i hear the ssd really improves windows performance. So i guess its something to think about.

 

Tks again for all your help man.

Edited January 25, 2013 by RichAC

[RichAC]

 

 

 

 

oh boy.   All i can tell you is pc gaming is dying.   Even this forum is pretty barren.  Years ago i found out about this site through friends and we use to use the service guide on here  for windows 98 and xp....before i even knew about blackvipers page.    I have my opinions as to why and you have yours.  maybe you dont' think its dying at all.    But now i don't even know many computer geeks anymore in real life.   Most of my friends just have slow performing laptops and ipads and aren't as computer savy anymore.

 

BF3 is a ghost town now.   not many 64 man servers in North America.  I only see a dozen in my browser usually.     People on my friends list quitting the game...some with the same exact issues as me.     We talking a game that prolly hundreds of thousands bought.   That doesn't concern you?     threads upon threads about lag and spikes.    Dice made alot of the data client site to help with the shabby netcode...but now that just invites more botting.     Same for aion.   Just do a google search.   threads about lag and bots.  The security in that game is ridiculous....once u play and see all the goldspammers you understand why.    The game is now free and they combined many servers and moved everythign to texas.   Do you think people are just playing other games now?   they are all dying.

 

Maybe you have different opinions as to why these games are not popular,.  maybe you think thousands of people just dont' know how to build a pc.   But  I for one will be buying a console,  not because i like them better.....but because i have no choice.  If i want to play sports games or play with less technical difficulties and hardware advantages,  and just simply more people in my own area of the world.  I have no choice.  Things need to change.

 

Maybe these game developers no longer care about pcs for many legitimate reasons...but if enough people report on the issues at least the hardware developers can help.  I assume they care because why else would anyone build a higher end rig if not for music or video editing,   then gaming.    

 

The problem is there is so many people like you who say they have no issues.....that it causes a problem.  Theres enough of you for them to have an excuse not to care.

 

Maybe i'm just too picky,  i don't know.  I feel like a dying breed.   But to me this is not acceptable.  And more people need to complain about it....instead of just assuming their pc sucks...lol

 

 

Geez, this is exactly what I was talking about. Get off your high horse and stop acting like your problems represent the state of the industry. Again, you are NOT in the majority. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

 

If you think PC gaming is dying, here's a list of 50 PC-exclusive games scheduled for release this year alone. You can believe what you want, but PC gaming is no where near death, and some would even say it's seen a recent resurgence due to the consoles being on their last legs and the indie gaming scene.

 

We'll see how the PS3 version of Defiance compares to the PC version, but PC is still the place to go to play MMOs, and no good RTS will ever be on a console.

 

You're right about one thing though - you are of a dying breed, the breed of people that have forecast the end of PC gaming for years now.

lol. Pc gaming has been steadily dying for years. I first noticed how bad it was in 2005 when ea sports started abandoning the pc when they sold their rights to baseball. Even worse when they pulled every game developed for pc in 2008. 2004/2005 was the last grea peak. Most companies are now crossing over to console....there is just more money in it and less headaches.

 

And you would really build gaming rigs for the games in that list? Seriously? None of them look that impressive. Might as well stick told hardware and play older games that dont' look much worse but run much better.

 

Only game on that list i would actually build a gaming pc for would be elder scrolls online. Skyrim is a great rpg. Unlike the fake fluffed up ones like ME2 and DA2. Games which are all cinematics and very little gameplay. Skyrim is a pure open world RPG, true old school pc style, which has more contend and much harder to render. I've always been known for saying its a shame in this day and age that we don't have mmos with skyrims graphics. But I'm starting to realize why now. Even EA Dice have had trouble with their network code.

 

And i'm a little worried that if all these cartoony crappy graphical games run like crap ON MOST PEOPLES MACHINES, how will elder scroll online play? I'm crossing my fingers. I think the worst right now is planetside 2. I can't believe peopole are actually even playing that game. Its the perfect example of why it can't be done imo. and yes it runs like crap on EVERYONES pc. Guys that run bf3 at 100 fps....will drop to nothing in that game lol.

 

And come on dude. Do you have alot of friends that play pc games anymore? I sure don't. I never even hear of pc gamers. If they are pc gaming they prolly play counterstrike, lol, tf2, or sc2. Games that look like they can be made to run on ipads. Not something someone would seriously build a gaming rig for.

 

You live in Long Island? I hope you shop at the Microcenter in Westbury dude. Comp Usa is already out of business. We need to keep that one alive!

 

Tks for the discussions all.

 

Rich.

Edited January 25, 2013 by RichAC

[EuroFight]

As far as your comments about PC gaming go, I disagree with you on that one, for example, I can play PS2 maxxed out on my rig and it isn't that great a rig, but that's for another thread.

 

In real world circumstances, the difference between RAM frequencies above about 1066MHz don't make an impact under general use. The only benefit would be if you did something that required large amounts of data that constantly needed to be losses and unloaded from the RAM. For this reason, I think an SSD would be the best choice for you as it would improve boot and load times, although it is unlikely to make a difference in-game.

 

There is software to check VRAM out there, although in my experience, unless you have artifacting or other serious display issues, VRAM is not an issue.

 

Graphics options will rarely reduce CPU usage, the calculations the CPU does occur no matter what the graphics setting, for example physics. There is a way to show CPU and GPU load on-screen during BF3 to debug, I have found it useful in the past, just press the tilde key and type 'render.perfoverlayvisible 1'.

 

If you can't afford a larger SSD st the moment, you could just set it up as the OS and the rest as cache to improve performance.

 

Anyway, good luck with your rig whatever you choose.

 

- Euro

[RichAC]

As far as your comments about PC gaming go, I disagree with you on that one, for example, I can play PS2 maxxed out on my rig and it isn't that great a rig, but that's for another thread.

 

In real world circumstances, the difference between RAM frequencies above about 1066MHz don't make an impact under general use. The only benefit would be if you did something that required large amounts of data that constantly needed to be losses and unloaded from the RAM. For this reason, I think an SSD would be the best choice for you as it would improve boot and load times, although it is unlikely to make a difference in-game.

 

There is software to check VRAM out there, although in my experience, unless you have artifacting or other serious display issues, VRAM is not an issue.

 

Graphics options will rarely reduce CPU usage, the calculations the CPU does occur no matter what the graphics setting, for example physics. There is a way to show CPU and GPU load on-screen during BF3 to debug, I have found it useful in the past, just press the tilde key and type 'render.perfoverlayvisible 1'.

 

If you can't afford a larger SSD st the moment, you could just set it up as the OS and the rest as cache to improve performance.

 

Anyway, good luck with your rig whatever you choose.

 

- Euro

well graphics settings might not change your cpu usage. But it should affect your fps. For example going down a resolution and changing the general settings from high to medium, in a game like bf3 gave me about a 10fps diff and 5 degree gpu temperature diff. which can be huge when going from 40-50 fps or even more noticeable when going from 30-40 fps. matter fact i haven't seen graphics settings change fps that much in maybe 10 years. BF3 really is well programmed. Its a shame apparently their network code is crappy, and they still have some bugs they never worked out.

 

when graphics settings don't change fps at all. Its always been commonly referred to as being cpu limited. Which is basically the same as what your saying. Which is probably my problem in these mmo games.

 

And ya i'm thinking the ssd might be a waste of money too after i read that thread about the one fella's experience i posted. But thats only one guy and I'm gonna do more research on it and think it over. Maybe i should just upgrade to a 1066gt phenom? But I think i still might have problems lol. I mean you read about people with super rigs and i7's that even have issues.... and amd is just not as supported.

 

and ya i can play ps2 maxed out too. but 15-20 fps sucks in crowded areas. and again it doesn't matter settings. I wonder if the game is even dx9 lmao. And parellel processing means nothing. Its crazy how horrible the graphics look and how bad it runs. I don't understand why people are even playing it. Its gotta be about the cool looking developers especially that pretty girl. Or all the indie developer fan boys. And your not gonna convince me you run ps2 better then people that can run bf3 at 125 fps on ultra settings....so ya...don't bother.

 

I tried very hard to get into it, but i prefer 64 man maps on bf3. Shit, after playing ps2.... cranking the graphics up high and dropping down to 30 fps in heavy action in bf3 doesn't even feel bad lol. Its one of the best looking games i ever played and runs great compared to most others.

Edited January 26, 2013 by RichAC