T Rush

(please add the listing for the 754 Infinity to the OP) I would almost guess that the socket 754 DFI Infinity is the most popular board in the Infinity series...as it seems that other bands of 939 boards and the 939 LanPartys could be of more interest to buyers, but for the socket 754 the Infinity seems to be the best way to get a PCI-E slot I would think that many of the 754/AGP/ClawHammer system users who bought AMD64 early on would be buying these boards now to use higher-end video cards that are PCI-E only with their still good, strong running early ClawHammer CPUs and the DFI nF4X Infinity Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce4 seems to be the best choice out there for a 754 motherboard is this just a problem with the later 3700+ ClawHammer or do all early ClawHammer 754 CPUs also have the problem of temps not reported in the proper 'range'?

first of all...movies in a theater only have 24 fps...so you could make the argument that the "eye/brain" only needs 24 fps to think changing images can be perceived as motion...now do note in the theater they show each frame flashed on the screen 3 times each for 72 'flashes per sec.' or 72 Hz refresh and yes normal TV only uses 30 fps displayed two times each at 60 Hz refresh on the screen (HD TV can use the full 60 images per sec. at 60Hz) but those are all non-interactive images so you don't really need to be able to tell exactly where a moving object is...only that it is moving smoothly across the screen...so when these images are filmed/taped/recorded to capture the moving object in motion on each frame in a blur ...even in a still frame, this blur makes the object appear as if it is in motion, as it is caught thru its movement during its transition thru space...as these images are strung together with changing frames this makes the object appear to move very smoothly across the screen, as you can't tell exactly where it is in each frame, and only that it is passing thru so much space per frame and then in the next frame moving thru alittle bit more space...now not only does this make it hard to tell where exactly the object is..but what it is as well this is the key to making non-interactive images "OK" as being seen as moving with so few fps..is that they are using motion blur in real life we don't see moving objects as blurry or flashing off and reappearing in the next spot ...try this right now if you like...spin your head around..so that the room moves past your eyes, you will notice as your eyes move past your CRT or TV with even a still image on it like this page(doesn't work with LCDs and still images as they don't flicker, but a game would change the frames displayed with moving images like the refresh of a CRT) ..notice with the CRT that screen appears as multiple images as it is flashing off and on as a new image is displayed(even though it is the same image it is hard to read the words on the screen)..where other items in the room are constant and you can tell what they are, I see this effect and my screen is at 85Hz now...this tells me my eyes/brain can see faster than 85Hz, and for a moving object I would need it to be displayed much faster than 85Hz to see it as well as I could see a constant non-flickering object in my room...this test would be the same as if I held my head and eyes still and swung the display back and forth on a rope...this would be much like a moving object in a game..as a still image on the screen would be flashing at 85Hz where the rest of the room stayed still(like the background in a game)...now if this is a bold object displayed on the screen(like a big red ball on a black background) I'm sure I could tell what it is...but I lose quite a bit of detail, as here the problem isn't that the ball is blurry(the image displayed on screen isn't blurring) but because it is flashing on and off, displayed in one spot and then reappearing in another ...look at this: here is a "0"(the ball on the screen) in all the places it appears as it moves across in front of me 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 say that is the ball at 60Hz 00000000000000000 and that is the ball at 120Hz ..you can see that there is twice the amount of information displayed on not only where the ball is..but what it is my eyes might be able to be tricked into thinking the ball is moving with it displayed at 60Hz..but at 120Hz I would have more information on the ball...this would be helpful if I am try'n to shoot it, or want to know if it was a friendly ball or an evil ball you still might be asking if you can see or use any of this information that is displayed at these higher refresh rates or "fps"...as if it were text on the screen(to tell me if the ball was evil or not) swinging on the rope, I couldn't read it...try this...hold up a book or anything with a lot of text written on in next to what I have just written displayed on your CRT...now turn your head back and forth(with your eyes held straight moving with your head)...you will notice that the constant text in the book is still discernable as to what the words are....but on the display even 85Hz(85 fps) isn't enough to make the words readable as they move...your eyes/brain can see/use much more information than what the display can show at any Hz or "fps"...it isn't untill objects are displayed at near infinity Hz or fps that we have all the information like we can get from looking at a real object sitting or moving in front of us the flashing of the refresh is the easy "give away" that the object displayed on movie screens or CRTs is not a constant image...so those rates need to be higher to trick us...the more subtle images are easier to trick the eyes/brain...as we can 'fill in' the missing information(what the blurry object is, or where and what it is until it is displayed again in the next spot) to try and make sense of it all, as we want to think those objects are moving(like the little 'flip books' we made as kids with the stick figure guy)...but this isn't the same as actually being given this information to know what is really happening, like when we see things that really are moving in real life many old school gamers would play games at very low resolution so that they could use very high refresh rates on their CRTs and have higher frame rates in games...they found the 'eye candy' as more of a distraction...and wanted as much information displayed on the screen as possible...now most of the games are about how cool they can look...to enjoy moving objects on screen you may only need 24 or 30 fps if they were blurry(using motion blur), or only 40 to 60fps if they are not(in computer games blur would be a bad thing, as you need to tell what and where something is when it is in motion, blur would hide that info)...but to see more exactly where these objects are or what they are (closer to the information you would get in real life)you would need many more fps most likely with computer games more is better...and with a game on computer right when things start to happen and you need to see what is going on to "make your move" is right when the computer has more work to do and the frame rates drop making it harder to tell what is going on...but just remember that you will only be able to see these frames on your monitor if the response time(LCDs) or refresh rate(CRT) is high enough to display them...so that the more important numbers when looking at frames per sec. are not those "175fps max" as its doubtful that those will be much use, if your monitor cant show them...but the average fps and even the minimum frames per sec. could be more important as that is when things are happening...when benchmarking/testing I always watch to see how low my frames might drop in any given slower point of the test...if these don't drop as low, most likely the average frames will be higher, and "in game" I'll have a better chance to see more frames and get more information on what is happening when 3 mobs jump out at me at once

ok...I did the 4:3 thing..set the RAM to run at 4-4-4-12, and gave the core a 267MHz clock...this brought me back to 4GHz with fast RAM and bad timings (RAM was at 339MHz or something?)..I also added a bump in RAM voltage to 1.9vDimm I gave it two runs with 3Dmark05 but the scores didn't change from when I was at 4GHz with the RAM 1:1 with the stock speed and timings of 3-3-3-8 and 266MHz score was still ~5200 GFX and ~5800 CPU so I thought I would try tightening up the timings from 4-4-4-12 1.9v to 3-4-4-11 1.9v with the 4:3 and 267Mhz core clock...that didn't work at all so..is there a way I can get more performance out of the RAM?..are their better timings I should try when it is running really fast with the 4:3 setting?...or am a better to run the RAM at SPD timings at stock speed by only using the 1:1 with the CPU at 4GHz?

hehe...seems like its time to re-set/clear the BOIS I left the RAM at 1:1 and pushed on 270MHz...275MHz...280MHz no sweat from 280 I just thought that it was invincible...so I randomly tried 290MHz..in hind sight I should have started bumping core speed by little bits from 280MHz (1MHz or 2MHz) as I'm sure I was getting close to what my DDR2-533 RAM can do at stock 3-3-3-8 timings well, it still posts into the BIOS at 15 X 290MHz with the RAM 1:1....but it seems that if I make a change in the BIOS it can't save it...I let it cool down and I'll try again..if not I'll just clear it...but I think I need to start back at a slower core clock and use the 4:3 RAM setting with some higher timings and see if I can get back to running at 4GHz... not sure how to do the math....but at 267MHz with 4:3 ratio, how fast will my RAM be going..and like what timings?...4-4-4-8? no clue on DDR2, help?

I wanted to see what would happen with a 266MHz core clock on the CPU to get the RAM up to stock DDR2-533 speed running with the 1:1...well I found out that the CPU would only be running 3990MHz...that was too close to 4GHz and not actually be 4GHz...so I set it at 267 and crossed my fingers and pressed F10... 267MHz core clock....1068FSB...RAM 1:1 DDR2-533 and yup 4GHz I have the X800XL running at 420MHz core and 510 mem ..so 3Dmark05 GFX score is 5200 ..but the CPU score is 5800...max temp is only ~48C anyone know if those overclocks are about right for a X800XL? ..it would be nice if I could push the GFX score up closer to 6000 like I can with my 6800GT the Intel 630 is stable as a rock at 4GHz...I've run '05 three times in a row without any problems...I have seen the RAM at ~290MHz so at this 1:1 setting I still have a ways to go before I need to loosen the timings...I'll see how much higher the CPU will go(still no end in site at 4GHz!!! with only stock cooling)...but should I go back to the 4:3 RAM setting and try running the RAM at super high speeds with loose timing and more volts (SPD is DDR2-533 1.8vDimm 3-3-3-8)...how high should I set the timings an volts to run it fast?

Yaaaay.... did that^...now I'm at 250MHz and taking my 2nd run on 3Dmark05 ...temps under 50C.. CPU at 3.75GHz..I had to turn the RAM down to 1:1(400) so its only at DDR2 500 speeds..but that 220MHz wall sure came down I'll try for higher...see if I can't get the core clock running the RAM at DDR2-533 speeds with it 1:1?(CPU might not like a 266MHz core X 15 = ~4.0GHz on a 1064FSB...or will it?) but about my RAM...at SPD timings(3-3-3-8) and voltage (1.8vDimm) it can boot Windows at ~290MHz(4:3)....so if I want to run it with the core clock at 250MHz and higher...is it better to run 4:3 with the timings really loose and the RAM speed really high...or use 1:1 with lower timings and close to stock speed?

great..thanks for the reply....I just put the kids to bed...so I'll go fire 'er back up in a few btw...this is one of the two computers I'm building for the kids as X-Mas gifts the other one will use my old(not really old, as I only had it a few months) 6800GT and a new EPoX 939 nF4 with a 3200+..and be an all new computer to replace the older Kid's AMD 1GHz/GeForce4 Ti system this Intel/ATI system will be an upgrade to a computer I built for the younger Kid ..which has a 9600pro and a 2.8GHz 520 P4 in it...the 9600pro has just proved to be too under powered for games...so in order to do this upgrade to a new video card I really felt that it needed to be PCI-E...this lead into replacing the motherboard and RAM(the old AGP board is socket 775, but used DDR1..which I'll use in the AMD64 EPoX system for the older Kid)...so as long as I was getting a new Video card, DDR2 RAM, and Mobo...I went ahead and got a new CPU also I'm guessing the the Intel 630 with 2MB cache is a better CPU than the 520j 1MB CPU (or is it?...should I be using that one?) but what about the other AGP/DDR1/775 motherboard...it is a DFI LANPARTY 875P-T ...is this PCI-E/DDR2/775 DFI LANPARTY 925X-T2 Socket T going to be a step down?...is the DFI LP 875P-T a better motherboard?

oh oh...what did I get myself into? DFI 925X-T2 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 925X ATX Intel Motherboard (refurb. $109) Intel Pentium 4 630 Prescott 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 EM64T Processor GeIL GX21GB4300UDC 1GB Kit DDR2-533 PC2-4300 Ultra Series Dual Channel Memory timings of 3-3-3-8 FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN ATX12V 450W Power Supply +12V1@18A, +12V2@18A ASUS EAX800XL/2DTV/256 Radeon X800XL 256MB 256-bit DDR VIVO PCI Express x16 Video Card (refurb. $190) I worked with this set-up last night...and had some pretty high overclocks going when I was just testing in the BIOS...but yep, hit that 220MHz wall as soon as I hooked up a hard drive and installed Windows ..totally new to overclocking Intel...so if anyone can give me any basic info on anything a first timer would over look, I would be grateful ...seems that my knowledge of this motherboard has has made huge leaps and bounds just from reading this thread...are there any other threads I sould read on this board? (I will try the things talked about in this thread) more questions: what about the PCI-Express Frequency?...what should I set it at to use the X800XL ? auto?...115MHz? I will not need either of the on-board LANs, I will be using a PCI WiFi card...will this cause problems? I also have a PCI Philips sound card what about the BIOS?...is there one I should be using for overclocking? I'll look and see which one it has on it now...but I don't like flashing for no reason...are there bad ones that cause problems with overclocking? and last..I have the stock Intel Heatsink/Fan on there now...but I will use a ZALMAN 7000 Alum/Cu when it gets put in the case...could someone that a guess at what voltages or temp I should stop at for this computer that may run sometimes 24/7?....I would like this computer to match the performance of another one I'm building with a Venice 3200+ and 6800GT....so (another guess if you please) what speeds would the Intel 630 and the X800XL need to be overclocked to?...so it can compete with the AMD64/nVidia

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread...7557#post267557 please help, my new fans will be here next week...and I'm also getting a 7800GT I see benchmarking in my very near future...and it sure would help to know what the heck my CPU temps are(even in the BIOS)

its not any type of software not reading the temps from the BIOS correctly its the BIOS' of the Infinity and DAGF series motherboards not reading the temps of the CPU's properly I have the same problem http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread...7557#post267557 ...and just with a older single core, so it isn't just the new CPU's like the dual core

and just so you can see what my temps look like.... here is a graph of all my temps. during a run with 3Dmark05 (the last peak marked with an arrow is opening Photoshop) that was with the shipping BIOS...the BIOS I flashed to(CK8XD811) didn't do any better you can see that the light green line looks to be the CPU temps...as it raises and falls like the temps should...but it just isn't in the proper range...dropping well under 10C and only as high as just over 30C...this is not only how the temps are reported with SpeedFan, but any other monitoring app as well as what the CPU temp shows while in the BIOS the really odd thing is that the 'spastic' dark green line is what should be my temp reported off the CPU? I just looked thru some of the other threads here and I did find that this also could be a problem with the socket 939 nF4 DAGF/Infinity boards as well http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28822 ..if there is any more info needed to help with a fix for this...I will gladly do anything that is needed...

Date Code 2005/10/19 File CK8XDA19.zip http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/Download/bio..._FLAG=A&SITE=US I'm not a big fan of flashing BIOS' willy nilly I really would like to fix the problem with the DFI nF4X Infinity Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce4 not reading the temps. of my 12X multi 3700+ ClawHammer CPU properly will this BIOS help? ... or will it be needless flashing? [edit] also...it would be really nice if a new BIOS could have a setting for just a few more 0.1vDimm I am using the OCZ "VX" high voltage RAM with this board, and as high as the voltage to the dimms will go is 3.1v....amazingly enough...I am running this RAM at 2-3-3-8 timings at 250MHz and even faster at times...but this seems to be right on the edge...as with 2.9 or 3.0 this RAM fails to run faster than ~230MHz, no matter what the timings [/edit]

I've also just noticed that the BIOS' for the socket 754 nForce4 Infinity motherboards are not listed on this thread they can be found here http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/Download/bio..._FLAG=A&SITE=US

I have a DFI nF4X Infinity Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce4..but I am not getting the temps of my 3700+ ClawHammer CPU reported in the proper 'range' the BIOS will show the CPU at 13C to ~25C...but even the room is warmer than that I have been over clocking and getting great performance (and the temps do rise and fall as you would think they should..but they just aren't in the right range) I would really like to know what my temps really are before I try over clocking any further with better cooling is there a BIOS that I sould try? is anyone else having this same problem? 3700+ ClawHammer 1MB L2 Cache socket 754 ( 2.7GHz 11X multi 1.69vCore ) OCZ VX 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 500 ( 2-2-2-6 1T 3.1vDimm 245MHz ) Leadtek PX6800GT TDH Geforce 6800GT PCI Express ( 425MHz core 1.2GHz DDR3 ) DFI nF4X Infinity Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce4 ( 4X HTT 1.6vChip ) Antec NeoPower ATX 480W Power Supply ( +12V1@18A, +12V2@18A ) ZALMAN CNPS7700-CU All Copper Heatsink ( stock 2000 RPM fan )