DFI Recommended Power Supplies (UPDATED October 20th, 2006!)

[red930]

I don't remember having said that. But implying I did makes it much easier to say I'm pulling stuff out of my butt, I suppose.

@Thasp

 

I quoted your line directly so there would be no misunderstanding. Simply roll back up in the posts to see exactly what you said if you don't believe me. Both posts are unedited at this time but I'll post the quote again for clarity...

 

The part about modular PSUs is completely false. I tried measuring the resistance with a multimeter of three molex connection splitters connected together.. they pulled those figures out of their butt.

 

I gave you the benefit of a doubt by simply giving you a light tap on the head after your first post. But since you've decided to show your lack of knowledge on this subject I'm forced to drop the hammer.

 

Now, unless the laws of physics have changed in the last few weeks, adding a connector in the middle of a wire run will reduce the current carrying capacity and add resistance. Period, the end, DONE!

 

For those that don't know, current flows on the surface of a conductor. Anytime that surface is interrupted by a connector you're adding resistance to the line. The higher the current flow the greater the resistance builds.

 

Therefore, your test at ultra low voltage and current isn't valid compared to a full-up test using actual voltages and currents. Period, the end, DONE!

 

Currently there are a few modular power supplies that offer good performance. The Corsair HX line is an excellent performer and I'm running one in my main rig right now for a long term test.

 

The connectors and connections used have gotten better over the last couple of years. Modular power supplies are mostly a gimmick for the overly vain rig builders and fanboys.

 

The bottom line is that modular units are OK for casual use. You will never see a data center running modular power supplies for mission critical hardware.

 

Now Thasp, just remember that it didn't have to come to this. You could have investigated these things on your own and learned something. Instead you decided to post and prove your lack of knowledge while taking a swipe at me. I have a feeling this won't happen again.

 

ExRoadie

[oeqvist]

Any plans on testing the Silverstone 850 Zeus. From all the reviews I have read it even beats the PCPowerandCooling 850 SSI but I don´t know if there can be some odd things with different mainboards?

 

I got the DFI Expert btw. Used the 510 ASL before and it worked fine. This seem to work a bit better not getting the low power warning on the video cards but since I still have issues with my computer I don´t know exactly what causes it...

 

As for the DFI Expert how accurate is it´s voltage readings. It reads 11,89V on the 12V line and 4,89 or something I think on the 5V line which seems a bit low...

 

510 ASL showed higher readings I want to remember.

[Thasp]

Now, unless the laws of physics have changed in the last few weeks, adding a connector in the middle of a wire run will reduce the current carrying capacity and add resistance. Period, the end, DONE!

 

Not 30%. You've ignored where I said it doesn't add 30% resistance at these power levels. I never claimed that at load, it doesn't add resistance. I said without load, it adds resistance that is barely there. I should have added that with power being sent through it, of course it'd drop. This is why using 24 guage wire on a 4 ohm cabinet for a 50 foot run won't work. Or why a preamp I resolder using new pieces of wire 30 times because I keep leaving the iron in has extra noise in the signal, opposed to just putting in a fresh new wire.. I know this very well or I'd be fired on the first day at a real job in my chosen job. I understand that a connector will always drop its ability to deliver power. A high quantity of connectors adds resistance at high load when they're reaching their max potential to carry power, or a low amount of connectors when they're garbage, but a quality molex connector won't add 30% resistance with the amount of power used in a PC, when it's one extra. Perhaps it will add enough so that it won't be used in a real datacenter. I know it will, nor do I have to be "enlightened" to this fact. Yet 30% resistance would make all modular PSUs garbage. My point, which I should have explained better is that a well built PSUs have modular plugs that, while limiting power flow and adding some resistance, aren't going to add _30%_resistance_ to the flow of power, or limit the amount of power to a point where it matters for purposes of the average overclocker. If power went down that much the PSU would be even more useless than a PSU that was rated at 15c.

 

I gave you the benefit of a doubt by simply giving you a light tap on the head after your first post. But since you've decided to show your lack of knowledge on this subject I'm forced to drop the hammer.

 

Maybe I am bad at getting my idea across. I usually am, and leave out things until otherwise brought up, but the amount of condescending statements..

[red930]

Not 30%. You've ignored where I said it doesn't add 30% resistance at these power levels.

 

Honestly, I've got better things to do than correct your posts but I want to make sure everyone knows the facts concerning this issue.

 

No one said anything about a 30% increase in resistance but you Thasp. I know exactly where you got it from but I figured you would go back and read the section again. Once you realized your mistake I'd hoped you would be man enough to come back and apologize for posting erroneous information in the forum which requires me to come in and correct.

 

Here is the entire question and answer on the PCP&C site...

------

CPU: Modular power supplies seem to be gaining a lot of traction in the market, but PCP&C doesn’t make any modular designs. Why?

 

Dodson: Yeah, it’s real popular, but the industry hasn’t done anything to educate people about modular plugs. The pins that are used in the modular plugs have a very low capacity to pass current. You’re losing power through those pins. It’s electrical resistance between the male and the female part of the pin, to the extent that the voltage drop in just the pins is equivalent to about two feet of wire. The effect is that modular power supplies, everything else being equal, are capable of about 10% less power than power supplies without modular plugs. And that’s under ideal conditions. In real life it gets worse because the pins loosen, corrode, and burn. Over time the resistance builds up. A year down the road, a guy could be running his system and all of a sudden it stops working reliably, and he has no way of knowing that the reason is because the pin inside that modular plug has become corroded or burned. This technique has been out for about six months, but people are going to find that the reliability is a massive failure point. Also, especially given the way people pull their harnesses around and tie them down, it creates a lot of stress on those pins. So instead of the pins having full 100% contact surface to surface, in most cases those pins are only touching maybe 10% or 30% of their surface area. What’s rated for 5A going through those pins, in reality if the pins aren’t making good contact, your rating’s down to maybe 3A, and with that much constriction, those pins just heat up, and it gets worse. For real pros in the industry, no way would they specify that kind of arrangement. This is a consumer-oriented gimmick

------

 

I used bold text in the only place where the string "30%" occurred.

 

You post this...

Yes. However, the PCP&P interview claimed 30%. I don't need a full blown testing lab to know that each connection doesn't add 30% resistance.

 

As you can plainly see, the statement was about contact area not resistance.

 

Next time get your facts straight before posting and we won't have to go through this exercise.

[Thasp]

Ah. So I was correct about the 30% resistance being insane, but completely wrong about the source. I get it now.

 

My bad for being an idiot.

[red930]

Thasp, you're not an idiot. Quite the contrary, you're a smart guy that got a fact wrong then ran with it.

 

We're just trying to keep the facts straight since there's so much bad info out there that just won't go away. It takes way too much time and effort to battle bad info.

[General Septem]

That article doesn't mention however that there are quality plugs and there are . plugs. Plugs like on the Hiper I believe that have a ring on them so you can screw them down are a lot less likely to get cocked in the sockets and lose surface area.

[wardog]

[/b]What’s rated for 5A going through those pins, in reality if the pins aren’t making good contact, your rating’s down to maybe 3A,

 

Two products in use here for just that. Caig DeoxIT and DeoxIt Gold.

 

ExRoadie, I'm betting you're most probably aware of both, or equivilent. In a previous life I became very aquainted with 'em. On a modular PSU application they together don't solve this inherent problem but go a long way towards eliminating the drop.

 

Caig products get applied to everything here that isn't soldered in place. Computer parts, home theater connections, heck even my trucks stereo system.

 

Indispenable and worth every $$$.

[red930]

I'm so old-school I still use Blue Shower contact cleaner. I haven't found anything that works better to clean contacts.

 

DeoxIT Gold and Shield have their uses but I prefer to stick with a metal to metal contact and just keep it clean.

 

It's amazing the amount of oxidation found even in environmentally controlled data rooms.

[Conaway]

I am looking into getting an Athlon 64 X2 Socket 939. I have an AX500 PSU. The FX600 and 700 were the two FSP PSU's on the recommended list, however, does anyone see any reason why this shouldn't work well enough? I am NOT running SLI.

[red930]

I am looking into getting an Athlon 64 X2 Socket 939. I have an AX500 PSU. The FX600 and 700 were the two FSP PSU's on the recommended list, however, does anyone see any reason why this shouldn't work well enough? I am NOT running SLI.

 

The Blue Storm should work well if it's in good condition. Those guys are getting a little long-in-the-tooth.

 

I would make sure the insides are very clean with no dust or dirt to reduce efficiency.

[General Septem]

Do we know anything about the Radeon R600 yet in regards to the PSUs it will and will not work with?

 

If not, would my PowerStrem 520w work with a single 8800GTX?