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DFI Recommended Power Supplies (UPDATED October 20th, 2006!)


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#13 Nil Einne

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 01:51 PM

I don't think anyone is saying it's junk just that it has an issue to be aware of. If you want to discuss the issue further go to the linked forum is probably best

#14 tcg_modder

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 01:59 PM

i have, but noone can offer any test results on the issue. in fact, noone owns one or has touched one except for 1 guy who says everythign works fine on it.

after a few posts tho, the thread got off the subject and moved towards other PSU's.

#15 Nil Einne

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 02:23 PM

If I recall, there were at least 2 people who own it. Besides, I think it's quite clear from a brief glance through the thread that no one is saying it's utter crap, simply that it has an issue that you should be aware of that we don't currently know how likely you are to run into problems from it. I think it's also clear from the thread that no one is saying the issue is unique to the SilverStone simply that to the best of their knowledge most other current high end, good brand power supplies like Enermax ones, Antec ones, OCZ ones, PC and Power (or whatever it's called) don't have a cross-current requirement as severe as the SS PSU.

At least, that's the impression I got as a fairly unbiased reader. Mind you, I do think there is some confusion in the thread which I hope to clarify as soon as I can post.

#16 A64

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:33 PM

I am just curious what's cross-current issues that the silverstone 650w has ?

also, from the antec psu, there is truepower II 550 with EPS, but without 120mm fan, while the truecontrol II 550 without EPS has 120mm fan.
if you are to choose from these two units, which one is better to go ? 550w with eps but not big fan or the 550w with big fan + control ?

from my previous post, i gave the wrong information. i can actually pay another aud40 for the silverstone 650 compare to truecontrol II 550, not the thermaltake 650. so, should i go for the silverstone or antec ?

#17 davidhammock200

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:11 AM

The Antec True Power 550W & True Power II's 550W (std or EPS) are highly recommended.

Thermaltakes have a long history of drooping their rails under load, the Butterfly's are the best.

The SilverStone's cross-loading requirements are as full explored as possible in the attached link.
This PS is very good with very demanding systems, no one knows what will happen with lightly loaded systems.

+5V min. load is 10A when +12V output is 30A to 38A
+5V min. load is 15A when +12V output is 38A to 42A

Dave

#18 FutureDFI

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:17 AM

hard to find, great price. dont even list specs on the antec site. 12vA=19amps,
12vB=19amps. should cover it for sli. found 1 for $109 usd. in the mail.

very truly yours,
politenessman


TrueControl II at $109?? Where? :)

#19 davidhammock200

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:22 AM

TrueControl II at $109?? Where? :)

new egg :rolleyes:

http://www2.newegg.c...N82E16817103931

http://www2.newegg.c...N82E16817103932

There are a number of useful links in the PS Guide.

PS Guide: http://www.dfi-stree...ead.php?t=10854

#20 FutureDFI

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:33 AM

new egg :rolleyes:

http://www2.newegg.c...N82E16817103931

http://www2.newegg.c...N82E16817103932

There are a number of useful links in the PS Guide.

PS Guide: http://www.dfi-stree...ead.php?t=10854


Thanks for links David but
I m talking about TrueControl II not TruePower II

Zipzoomfly has it backorder at $135, newegg does not even list it.


Good work on that guide, here are some very good PSUs reviews on Xbitlabs.
They may help you on that guide.

http://www.xbitlabs....ay/atx-psu.html

http://www.xbitlabs....werful-psu.html

regards

#21 davidhammock200

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:55 AM

Thanks for links David but
I m talking about TrueControl II not TruePower II

Zipzoomfly has it backorder at $135, newegg does not even list it.


Good work on that guide, here are some very good PSUs reviews on Xbitlabs.
They may help you on that guide.

http://www.xbitlabs....ay/atx-psu.html

http://www.xbitlabs....werful-psu.html

regards

Sorry :( about my mis-read of your question.

AFAIK the TC II's are not in retail distrubation yet & Antec does not list their specs. It maybe that CWT is having problems as the did when the +12V amperage was increased across the board on all True Powers except the TC, which remained at [email protected], where as the other TP 550W's went to [email protected] & the EPS went to +1[email protected]

Thank you for the review links, this guide will be a mini-guide just for the DFI N4's, however the main guide is linked.

Main PS Guide: http://forums.extrem...ad.php?t=136602

Thanks,
Dave

#22 Nil Einne

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 09:25 AM

Hi David, I wanted to discuss this issue in the Extreme OC forums but as I still can't post, I'll just begin here. I've read through the entire thread and I somewhat disagree with what you've said. Firstly, unless I'm deeply mistaken what the crossloading requirement means is that you need to use at least 10A on the +5v if you want a reliable supply 30-38A on the +12v and you need to use at least 15A on the +12v if you want a reliable supply 38-42A on the +12v.

From what I've read and form my understanding or the issues, I fail to see how there can be an issue on lighly loaded systems. On lightly loaded systems, you're never ever going to use close to 30A on the +12V so no matter whether you are using 8A or 15A or 20A or whatever on your +5V it doesn't matter. There are a number of 480W power supplies which only just supply 30A on the +12V rail and most of the discussion on this board seems to agree that 30A is more then enough for any system only drawing a light load.

Of course, with a lightly loaded system you have no need for the PSU, the only reason you will get it is for future expandability which brings me to the next issue.

The problems will only being on a moderate to heavy loaded systems. Specifically, when you are drawing a lot of +12V but not much +5V. Any system which needs at least 30A on the +12V is one that is potentially a problem. I would say this is def not a lightly loaded system. I would say that the problem is probably most likely on systems just above the threshold, e.g. that need 30-32A or 38-39A on the +12V. In general, there will probably be some increase in our +5V demand as our +12V demand increases so I suspect once we start to need e.g. 36A on the +12V we will probably be drawing at least 10A on the +5V.

Most of the CPU and video card PS is from the +12V I believe. Therefore, I would guess the problem would occur with certain setups. SLI ones (esp 6600GTs) and maybe dualcore ones are going to draw a lot from the +12V I suspect but perhaps not much from +5V so they might be ones which will run into the problem. Similar if you have tons of +12V inverters I suspect you might also start to run into problems.

It's only when you have a very heavy load that you should be safe.

However this is just a very rought guess. In the thread, the discussion is strongly focused on how likely are you to actually run into a problem due to the crossloading requirements. From what I read, no one is sure since we don't really know exactly how much each component draws from the +5V and the +12V and how variable it is.

I think this is one of the key problems with the SS PSU. We don't really know how and when you will run into the crossloading issues.

#23 FutureDFI

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:48 AM

Hi David, I wanted to discuss this issue in the Extreme OC forums but as I still can't post, I'll just begin here. I've read through the entire thread and I somewhat disagree with what you've said. Firstly, unless I'm deeply mistaken what the crossloading requirement means is that you need to use at least 10A on the +5v if you want a reliable supply 30-38A on the +12v and you need to use at least 15A on the +12v if you want a reliable supply 38-42A on the +12v.

From what I've read and form my understanding or the issues, I fail to see how there can be an issue on lighly loaded systems. On lightly loaded systems, you're never ever going to use close to 30A on the +12V so no matter whether you are using 8A or 15A or 20A or whatever on your +5V it doesn't matter. There are a number of 480W power supplies which only just supply 30A on the +12V rail and most of the discussion on this board seems to agree that 30A is more then enough for any system only drawing a light load.

Of course, with a lightly loaded system you have no need for the PSU, the only reason you will get it is for future expandability which brings me to the next issue.

The problems will only being on a moderate to heavy loaded systems. Specifically, when you are drawing a lot of +12V but not much +5V. Any system which needs at least 30A on the +12V is one that is potentially a problem. I would say this is def not a lightly loaded system. I would say that the problem is probably most likely on systems just above the threshold, e.g. that need 30-32A or 38-39A on the +12V. In general, there will probably be some increase in our +5V demand as our +12V demand increases so I suspect once we start to need e.g. 36A on the +12V we will probably be drawing at least 10A on the +5V.

Most of the CPU and video card PS is from the +12V I believe. Therefore, I would guess the problem would occur with certain setups. SLI ones (esp 6600GTs) and maybe dualcore ones are going to draw a lot from the +12V I suspect but perhaps not much from +5V so they might be ones which will run into the problem. Similar if you have tons of +12V inverters I suspect you might also start to run into problems.

It's only when you have a very heavy load that you should be safe.

However this is just a very rought guess. In the thread, the discussion is strongly focused on how likely are you to actually run into a problem due to the crossloading requirements. From what I read, no one is sure since we don't really know exactly how much each component draws from the +5V and the +12V and how variable it is.

I think this is one of the key problems with the SS PSU. We don't really know how and when you will run into the crossloading issues.


Hmm....Crossload characteristics.
Almost none of the PSU reviews out there making any comment of this very important issue. Exception (as far as i know) is Xbitlabs labaratory with their exceptionals reviews on PSUs (links at my signature).

As u said u, let say we have a PSU rated 5V at 28A and 3.3V at 30A.
Everybody can say thats enough "juice" for everything.
But manufacturer says that combined power of those 2 are 160W. That means that the maximum power u can get from 3.3V + 5V is 160W.
Of course u dont know how much current every system draws from each line.
If a system draws 20A on 5V line that is 100W. That means that 3.3V line has only 60W remaining which is equals 60/3.3=18A...far from 30A.

Thats an example how crossload and combined characteristics works.
Latest ATX 2.01 specs has crossloads and combined characteristics for up to 400W.
Seems that newer systems not use to much wattage from 3.3V and 5V and load goes to 12V lines instead.
But how an excessive load at 12V acts on 3.3V and 5V?

#24 davidhammock200

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:51 AM

Well I believe that everyone can understand my reluctance to recommend an expensive PS,
that may or may not work on any random system, especially when there are so many others that do not have these concerns & that we KNOW will work.

The problem is that the +5V rail just isn't used for much these days,
the exception being when the DFI N4's use it to power the RAM.

The PC P&C, OCZ, Antec & Exermax are all "safer" choices. ;)