WaterCooling - Pump and rad 6.4mm (1/4

[Bleeble]

I've never seen that case before. I like the monster fans. What's that plastic box in the front HDD rack?

 

From what I can tell, you should have enough room for a 240 along the bottom or top of the case and possibly enough room for a 360 along the top. I say "possibly" because there's a significant gap between your PSU and the top of the case and it might be able to fit there. But, for all I know, a 360 might be able to run along the top of the case from the front of the drive cages and not hit the PSU. You'll have to do some measuring and see what fits. Your best solution might be a PA160 on that back 120mm fan.

 

My part recommendations:

CPU block: D-TEK Fuzion (good performance, low restriction) or Swiftech Storm (better performance, highly restrictive, more expensive)

GPU block: MAZE4 GPU or D-TEK Fuzion GFX. I don't know much about the D-TEK, so you'll have to check the reviews to see if there's a comparison.

Pump: Laing DDC+ (18W version) (aka MCP355, DDC-2) or Laing D5 (aka MCP655). See below for more information...

Reservoir: None! B:) Use a T-line with a fillport instead. Better flow/pressure than a reservoir, uses less fluid to fill the loop.

Radiator: See below for more information...

Tubing: Masterkleer 7/16" ID. This will be a tighter fit than 1/2" ID and is less likely to leak (still use hose clamps). It's also stiffer than ClearFlex and is less likely to kink. Not nearly as expensive as Tygon.

Fans: Yate Loon D12SM-12. They push tons of air and are very quiet. For a "silent" version, consider the D12SL-12 instead.

 

More pump info: I highly suggest getting a DDC+ but only if you get an aftermarket/modded top with it (because the stock version only comes with 3/8" barbs). The only two tops worth mentioning are Petra's DDCT-01 and the Alphacool top. My personal suggestion is Petra's top. Here's a great review/comparison: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117215. That link also includes comparisons to other pumps.

 

More radiator info: If you want the best performance, you're going to want a Thermochill Radiator (specifically the PA series). Yes, they're more expensive than other brands, but if you read the radiator testing link from my last post you know it's worth it. In fact, the PA120.2 beats Swiftech's MCR320 (3x120mm) by quite a large margin. When you decide on a radiator, make sure you take the physical size into account; the PA120.3 is 59mm thick, plus another 25 or 38mm for fans. Putting the rad along the bottom of the case may cover up too much of the mobo (and you need to have the case raised off the floor so there's some airflow). That's one reason why I said a PA160 on the back 120 might be a good way to go. But if you look at the prices for PA radiators, you'll no doubt notice that there's really not much difference between the various sizes. So you might as well get the biggest rad your case can fit. Keep in mind that you may need to do some modification to your case to get everything in there (but trust me, it's worth it). This was my first case mod and, although I wish I had done some things differently, it turned out really well.

 

If you use the pump and radiator (120.2 or bigger) I've suggested, you'll have enough power and cooling capacity to cool a heavily OCed CPU and add GPU (or even dual GPU) cooling later on.

 

I've got a ton more stuff I can add to this post, but it's already starting to get a bit convoluted. If you have any questions or want something clarified, just ask.

[M3NF]

Fist can i say thanks for a real great post on help, there is alot of info there I think i go along with a pa120-2 240 with 2 fans looking at this.

I measure the system and i can work a 240 size in the front going up from the bottom, that way i am getting the 25cm fan right on the rad. I think maybe a shroud as well, what do you think would be better there ?.

What do you feel would work better for cooling ......

 

25cm fan at front bring fresh air in, then pa120-2 rad and 2 120mm fans on the back of the rad taking the air into the case, leaving the 120 at the back to remove.

Or

25cm fan at front bring fresh air in, then 2 fans blowing that cool air onto the rad, leaving again the 120 at back taking hot air out ?

 

As for the layout for the rest i work on that as an when to be honest, as said i plan to get a part each time, and then work that into the system, so it will take a little while to get completed.

 

I think then a fillport at the top of my case, should be ok to drill my case for that with my current tools Yer i not a DIY man here.

 

I would rather keep the system enclosed to be honest, as my kids will play around with it when i not around, and this will save my computer getting damaged.

 

I not able to fit a pa120.3 along the bottom to be honest, and i like the idea of using that large 25cm fan hitting air on the rad one way or another, currently the side 25cm fan also blows cool air in, maybe worth turning it round to remove air out ?.

 

I leave it as that for now, as i got a fair amount of reading on that list of parts now and i will need to some more measuring on the case to see if this will work, i may need to get some more parts as the sata cable not gonna reach, and maybe i have to relocate the harddrive also, but i feel i am able to work on this better than total case cutting lol.

 

Cheers for your advice, and your pic's really helped me out alot on ideas

[Bleeble]

Fist can i say thanks for a real great post on help, there is alot of info there I think i go along with a pa120-2 240 with 2 fans looking at this.

I measure the system and i can work a 240 size in the front going up from the bottom, that way i am getting the 25cm fan right on the rad. I think maybe a shroud as well, what do you think would be better there ?.

What do you feel would work better for cooling ......

 

25cm fan at front bring fresh air in, then pa120-2 rad and 2 120mm fans on the back of the rad taking the air into the case, leaving the 120 at the back to remove.

Or

25cm fan at front bring fresh air in, then 2 fans blowing that cool air onto the rad, leaving again the 120 at back taking hot air out ?

Do you mean that you'll stand the radiator up vertically? The only problem I see with having the radiator in the front is that the hard drive cage is really restricting airflow. Of the two options you posted, I'd suggest having two 120mm fans on the front of the radiator (pushing air through). I think one of the links I posted showed that pushing air through a PA120.x resulted in better temps (although not by much). Together the two 120s will provide a lot more airflow than just the 250mm one in the front. If you can find a way to remove the HDD cage or make it less restrictive, then putting the radiator in the front would work well. I can't be sure without actually seeing your case up close, but you may only need to drill out a few rivets to take the cage out. Then you could use long machine screws (or some other ingenious method) to hold the HDD in the 5.25" bays.

 

As for the layout for the rest i work on that as an when to be honest, as said i plan to get a part each time, and then work that into the system, so it will take a little while to get completed.

Keep in mind that the shipping charges are really going to add up if you do it that way. I'd get at least a few things at a time if you don't want to buy everything at once. You can also use this as an opportunity to get the best deal on all your stuff since some shops offer certain items considerably cheaper. Just make sure you finalize your plans before you start buying.

 

I think then a fillport at the top of my case, should be ok to drill my case for that with my current tools Yer i not a DIY man here.

 

I would rather keep the system enclosed to be honest, as my kids will play around with it when i not around, and this will save my computer getting damaged.

If you can put in the fillport, you can drill holes for the radiator. As I said before, prior to this case, I had never modded anything. All you need is a drill and a 114mm (4.5") hole saw (make sure it has an arbor). Same thing for the Fillport: All you need is a drill and a 1" hole saw. Just make sure you get bi-metal hole saws and not wood ones.

 

Having many younger cousins, I can certainly understand why you want to keep everything in the case. The only disadvantage I see with putting the radiator at the top is having to worry about curious children dropping things in there. But that's what filters and grills are for.

 

I not able to fit a pa120.3 along the bottom to be honest, and i like the idea of using that large 25cm fan hitting air on the rad one way or another, currently the side 25cm fan also blows cool air in, maybe worth turning it round to remove air out ?.

 

I leave it as that for now, as i got a fair amount of reading on that list of parts now and i will need to some more measuring on the case to see if this will work, i may need to get some more parts as the sata cable not gonna reach, and maybe i have to relocate the harddrive also, but i feel i am able to work on this better than total case cutting lol.

 

Cheers for your advice, and your pic's really helped me out alot on ideas

I would keep both 250s as intake for the time being. If you put a PA120.2 along the top (and I think it's the best idea) then that, along with the rear 120, will act as your exhaust. If you have the radiator in the front, then you'll have to experiment to see what gets you better temps.

[M3NF]

Do you mean that you'll stand the radiator up vertically? The only problem I see with having the radiator in the front is that the hard drive cage is really restricting airflow. Of the two options you posted, I'd suggest having two 120mm fans on the front of the radiator (pushing air through). I think one of the links I posted showed that pushing air through a PA120.x resulted in better temps (although not by much). Together the two 120s will provide a lot more airflow than just the 250mm one in the front. If you can find a way to remove the HDD cage or make it less restrictive, then putting the radiator in the front would work well. I can't be sure without actually seeing your case up close, but you may only need to drill out a few rivets to take the cage out. Then you could use long machine screws (or some other ingenious method) to hold the HDD in the 5.25" bays.

 

Yes i was thinking of having the radiator up vertically, i think i could easy drill the rivets of out the drive bay, and remove the full drive bay without issues, right behind then it would give a full access to the 25cm fan, this then would blow direct onto near on most of the rad and no restriction for air flow at all, hence then saying about having to fans then either blowing though the rad into the case, or sucking the heat from the case as the 25cm fan will blow direct onto the rad this way, also would it be best to have the pipes nearer the top of the rad or bottom ?, i would also get at the same time shroud. It hard to show in pictures, but but doing it this way, i would get the full power of my 25cm fan blowing direct onto the rad, and in my mind a shroud and then 2 12cm fans removing heat from the back of the rad would give a good air flow for the rad.

 

I worked out that the top section of my drive bay i could then cut down and use again, bolt in and use a hard drive convertor to get my hard drive into the dvd bay area, then bend the excess metail over to form a lip to seal that area up.

 

I like the idea of this kind of setup in my mind, its kinda of a good way to use that huge fan to my advange, plus hide the parts in that area also.

 

A couple of questions thou, i not really thought about the rest of the system, but i like the items you listed so its a good chance i go with that lot you listed, i know what you mean about buying parts at a time will cost more, but i guess its helps me less worry as i can work each part into my system as it comes, and stop the big picture showing lol.

 

Also when i got the parts for this section, what best way to mount the rad, which way up should i have the rad, hoses up the top or bottom, i thoguht bottom as the pump would then next to it allow a couple of inches needed of pipe to fit to it.

 

Was looking at pump to rad, rad to cpu, cpu back to pump kinda of thing along with fillpoer in there somehwhere lol

 

my plans for other parts would be kinda of.....

 

Pump at bottom near the rad, as it would be hidden my my non windowed area, then fill port located top centre. This way there would little excess pipes, as it would only come from front to the CPU and back, needing a small amount, and keeping it tidy, as well as a length for the fill port.

 

I guess it would be best to work out some kinda of diagram about now thou, to get it into some kinda of location to get more feedback if thats ok with you, i dont wish to hassle you to much, but the help you give and given me alot more motivation to do this lol, and i kinda looking forward to it now.

 

Also seening your set up with the rad inside the case has put my mind to rest on mine being inside, i know it not the most effective but i only plan to really get my CPU done, and i can always add a single 120 rad when i do go ahead and do my GPU, but there is no rush as i not overclocked that at all yet.

 

Anyways thanks again.

Edited July 12, 2007 by M3NF

[Bleeble]

Sorry, posted on accident. Real reply coming soon.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Bleeble

[M3NF]

Can i throw another question into this....

 

Fans you selected, i noticed a large difference on CFM on them, do i need the higher cfm to gain better cooling..... also the quiet one i seen the same one by them but blue led version, same spec just with the bling factor, but its not as good cfm as the D12SM-12 but same as the other one. Will there be a real gain on the higher cfm one ?

[Bleeble]

It appears that I've written a novel. I hope you've got time

 

Yes i was thinking of having the radiator up vertically, i think i could easy drill the rivets of out the drive bay, and remove the full drive bay without issues, right behind then it would give a full access to the 25cm fan, this then would blow direct onto near on most of the rad and no restriction for air flow at all, hence then saying about having to fans then either blowing though the rad into the case, or sucking the heat from the case as the 25cm fan will blow direct onto the rad this way, also would it be best to have the pipes nearer the top of the rad or bottom ?, i would also get at the same time shroud. It hard to show in pictures, but but doing it this way, i would get the full power of my 25cm fan blowing direct onto the rad, and in my mind a shroud and then 2 12cm fans removing heat from the back of the rad would give a good air flow for the rad.

 

I worked out that the top section of my drive bay i could then cut down and use again, bolt in and use a hard drive convertor to get my hard drive into the dvd bay area, then bend the excess metail over to form a lip to seal that area up.

 

I like the idea of this kind of setup in my mind, its kinda of a good way to use that huge fan to my advange, plus hide the parts in that area also.

 

A couple of questions thou, i not really thought about the rest of the system, but i like the items you listed so its a good chance i go with that lot you listed, i know what you mean about buying parts at a time will cost more, but i guess its helps me less worry as i can work each part into my system as it comes, and stop the big picture showing lol.

Having the radiator behind the front fan is a good idea because it'll be getting fresh/cold air from outside the case. I checked on the specs for that fan and I think it pushes 100CFM of air. Yate Loon D12SM's are rated at 70CFM each. In all honesty, the best thing to do is experiment. After you get all your parts, set it up and see what gets you the lowest temperatures. If you can find/make a shroud to fit the front 250 to the radiator and then use the two 120s on the rear of the radiator, you'll likely have good performance. I think either that setup or having the two 120s on the front of the rad and just leaving the 250 as intake will give you the best performance. Side note: You don't need a shroud for the PA radiators because the fans are already raised away from the fins. But you really need to try different things to see what works best.

 

Also when i got the parts for this section, what best way to mount the rad, which way up should i have the rad, hoses up the top or bottom, i thoguht bottom as the pump would then next to it allow a couple of inches needed of pipe to fit to it.

 

Was looking at pump to rad, rad to cpu, cpu back to pump kinda of thing along with fillpoer in there somehwhere lol

To mount the radiator, you could use a couple of L-shaped pieces of metal. Screw one end to the bottom of the case and the other would be attached to the rad using the screw holes that are already there. I would definitely mount the radiator with the inlet/outlet at the top. If you do it the other way, you'll end up with a lot of air trapped inside the radiator and that's bad for cooling.

 

If you use the pump I suggested, you should run the loop like this: Pump > CPU > GPU > Rad > Pump. If you choose a different pump that puts out a lot of heat, then put the rad before the CPU and GPU. Another very important point is that you need to put the T-line before your pump intake (so after the rad in the above loop). The T-line is acting as your reservoir, so having a long-ish section of tubing is a good idea. It doesn't have to be really long, but you might have problems with your pump drawing air if it's really short (and that's really bad for the pump).

 

my plans for other parts would be kinda of.....

 

Pump at bottom near the rad, as it would be hidden my my non windowed area, then fill port located top centre. This way there would little excess pipes, as it would only come from front to the CPU and back, needing a small amount, and keeping it tidy, as well as a length for the fill port.

You can put the pump wherever there's room. And don't forget, you don't have to put it on the bottom of the case. I've got mine bolted to the side of my drive cages; that's just what happened to work out best for me. You could also put the pump near the back of your case. Generally, having less tubing is better, but you want to make sure that you don't have so little that things don't fit or tubes kink. If you use Masterkleer, you probably won't have to worry about the tubes kinking as long as you don't try to bend it too tightly. Clearflex, unfortunately, kinks if you happen to sneeze in the next room... but the price is right, so I can't complain. In my opinion, the thick-walled Tygon tubing is just too stiff. I think it puts a lot of unecessary stress on components. Regardless, if you have problems with kinking (or just want to avoid them altogether) or need to make a really tight bend, get some Coolsleeves. Just to clarify, they're not necessary, but they might come in handy.

 

I guess it would be best to work out some kinda of diagram about now thou, to get it into some kinda of location to get more feedback if thats ok with you, i dont wish to hassle you to much, but the help you give and given me alot more motivation to do this lol, and i kinda looking forward to it now.

 

Also seening your set up with the rad inside the case has put my mind to rest on mine being inside, i know it not the most effective but i only plan to really get my CPU done, and i can always add a single 120 rad when i do go ahead and do my GPU, but there is no rush as i not overclocked that at all yet.

 

Anyways thanks again.

Even if you add a GPU block later, you don't have to worry about getting another radiator. The PA120.2 is far more efficient than most other 2x120mm radiators. It should handle it just fine.

 

Making some kind of a diagram to plan things out is a very good idea. You can never do too much planning. Measuring everything. Double- and triple-check all your measurements. You don't want to buy everything and find out it won't work because you forgot or missed something important.

 

So it looks like the wheels have started turning, eh? Do we have another budding modder on our hands? Another overclocker to join the OCC army? Be careful, it's an addiction! Once you start, you'll never stop! Don't think this is a hassle for me. I truly and honestly enjoy helping people with their computer-related issues. Unless you call me over to your house to install iTunes or Norton... Heads will roll! I may be weird, but I probably get as excited about this stuff as the people I help.

 

Can i throw another question into this....

 

Fans you selected, i noticed a large difference on CFM on them, do i need the higher cfm to gain better cooling..... also the quiet one i seen the same one by them but blue led version, same spec just with the bling factor, but its not as good cfm as the D12SM-12 but same as the other one. Will there be a real gain on the higher cfm one ?

You most certainly can! CFM stands for "cubic-feet-per-minute." It's simply a measure of how much air the fan pushes. The higher CFM fan you use, the cooler the heatsink/radiator stays. As I mentioned above, the D12SM as an airflow rating of 70 CFM @ 35 deciBels. The D12SL is 47 CFM @ 28 dB. Basically, the SL is quieter but pushes less air. Personally, I'd call the SL silent. I can't hear it unless I put it right next to my head. That said, the SM is very quiet. I have 4 of them in my computer and they add very little noise. My loudest fans are in my PSU and my Panflo M1A. The M1A is supposedly 86.5 CFM @ 35 dB, but that's just a god-awful lie! Sure it pushes more air than the D12SM, but it's a hell of a lot louder. There's a couple things to bring away from my rambling: 1) stick with the D12SM (either the regular or LED version, whichever you prefer) and 2) manufacturers like to lie. (Yate Loon seems to be the only honest one)

[M3NF]

dang i could spend hours chatting about this, guess i would as i very intrested in this stuff

 

First thanks for the post again, i am very greatful of your time in helping.

 

As for reply.........

 

Well ok, i guess its pretty much now set my plan to stone now, i got 99% i think of my questions answered, i guess a few more maybe down the line once i start the building side of it all. The list so far of parts are ......

 

Rad -

Edited July 12, 2007 by M3NF

[Bleeble]

dang i could spend hours chatting about this, guess i would as i very intrested in this stuff

 

First thanks for the post again, i am very greatful of your time in helping.

Haha! Welcome to my world. Stick around and soon you'll be the one doling out advice to those in need.

 

Rad -

[M3NF]

Haha! Welcome to my world. Stick around and soon you'll be the one doling out advice to those in need.

 

LOL, well ya never know i may get there, i learned a fair amount now on overclocking itself, and i am starting to understand water cooling side, thou there is so much on the market its hard to know them all, and whats best. I guess thats why i come here to learn and see you guys views on it all.

 

When you buy the PA120.2, it should come with barbs. If it doesn't, polypropylene/nylon/plastic barbs work. I think that DangerDen or EK barbs would work, but you'll need to make sure the thread type is correct before using them. But that's if it doesn't come with any. I use nylon barbs. The top from Petra's Tech should also come with 1/2" barbs. I use EK barbs for that. And don't forget your T-connector.

 

Yer the place i looking to buy from has them with the 1/2 barbs, so i am sorted there, the petra's tech also does, so that helps me alot. As for the T-connector, i now added that to my list to get cheers there.

 

The shroud you picked will only hold a single 120mm fan to the radiator. If you're looking for something to use on the 250mm fan, you could, in all honesty, make something temporary out of cardboard. If you end up with better performance with the shroud, then you could change to something more permanent.

 

Yer i listed the wrong one, it was for double shroud for both fans to fit, i was not planning at this time to make a shroud for the 25cm to goto the twin shroud on the rad, but that again could be food for thought i think there. (its this modding ever gonna end lol)

 

I'm glad you decided to get a backplate for the waterblock. I completely forgot about that. I ended up using one from my Ultra-120. Anyway, you really need to use a backplate so you don't have to worry about breaking the mobo.

 

Yer i spotted that why making my list, looking at every part the shop sold on water cooling, and it was listed, and sounded a good part to use. (rather be safe than sorry guy i am)

 

Is that bridging tool the same thing as this? If it is, you can just use a paperclip or a short piece of wire for free. Just put one end in the green wire and the other in a black one (ground) on your 20/24 pin motherboard connector. Pin 14 and any ground in this pic.

 

Yer thats the one, and cheers for the tip, saved me a couple of quid there

 

 

One thing we haven't talked about is what fluid you're going to use. Opinions on this vary greatly. I like MCT-5. Sure, it's a bit expensive, but a single container fills my loop with enough left over to top it off later on.

 

Yes that true not looked at that side yet, i heard there is alot on the market again, and after looking around it would be handy to get a all in one liquid, as i rather not need to mix the added extra's myself, thou again for looks, i would be after a blue die one (yer ott on blue lol)

 

Painting should be cool, done a fair amount of that with the rattle cans, so should be fine, i wanted to do it when i first got the case a month ago, so will give me time while i got it all stripped out to do it.

 

 

Pump > CPU > GPU > Rad > T-Line > Pump is what I have. Some pumps (mainly the 110/220 volt ones) dump a lot of heat into the water. In that case, I would suggest putting the radiator after the pump. The DDC+ doesn't put out enough heat to worry about it affecting CPU temps. If you go directly from the pump to the CPU, you'll have higher pressure, which should increase performance by a tiny amount. In truth, it's pretty unlikely that there will be a noticeable difference between the two configurations. My best advice to you would be to buy some extra tubing and extra fluid and try it both ways. See if one method is better than the other. I haven't tried placing the rad first myself, so I'd be interested to see your results if you try it.

 

Right gotcha there i wasn't sure the gain reason. Now i understand that is due to pressure

 

 

I want to see everything when you finish. Make sure you come back and let us know how it turns out. If you have any questions in the meantime feel free to PM me (or make another thread). Make sure you don't disappear after you're done. OCC needs more guys like you. Good luck!

 

Yer count on it, while doing the work (when i get the parts) i wanted to do a full pic's of the progress to help others hopefully, from the case modding, to lapping like you did, and to fitting the water sytem. With loads of before and after pic's, also just had my new lighting set turn up today, a few banks of blue led's to go under the motherboard area so they shine out and glow the board area more If you cant tell by now i hate standard stuff, just recently sold my motorbike a few months ago and that was my project on that, and now i need something new to mod lol and looks like my computer going to get the job

 

I look forward to being able to use the infomation i learned from you, shame no one else has commented on this thread thou, kinda wonder if you run the site here . but yes i be around writing and posting info around here.

 

I posted a poll in the poll area about what type of connection ppl use i seen so many now, from screw to barb, to quick connect. Whats your views

 

Anyways i got to pick kids up now so i leave it as this for now lol.

 

Take it easy and once again thanks for your time.

Edited July 12, 2007 by M3NF

[road-runner]

Its nothing special or nothing fancy just a water cooled rig with no case. I thought I would just give you something to look at...

 

[M3NF]

PMSL i got to say as much as it works it would drive me mad lol, the kids would have a field day with it , at least it help cooling thou. I not that much into temp i would say.