Its Official Security Forces Shooting Innocents

[Duke Atreides]

Attacking a person is not kosher. Laying waste to a opinion is completely fair game.

[Kamikaze_Badger]

Liquid, we're referring to the Eastern Hemisphere .

 

Yes, I'm for the war in Iraq. No, I do not "love" war. My brother is going to be out there fighting in a month, and as much as I love the extra bandwidth, the fact that he'll be risking his life daily to save the freedoms of America is a huge weight on my heart, especially with the events that happened between me and the rest of my family before he left.

 

Liquid, you're living a sheltered life. You're Australian, right? So am I, but I'm part American as well, and living in America (dual citizenship FTW!). Your only information offline will be media sources, and the same goes for most of your online time. And you know what they're going to do? Feed you all the sickening . they can. Why? Simple psychology: Humans react more to bad news than good news. Therefor, people will watch the news if it's reporting things that hook them on there. Which is bad news. Welcome to capitalism, get in gear or gtfo.

 

I'm fully aware of the rules, I've been here a year and half. However, you need to start working on writing out posts in a more mature, punctuated manner. Your outright flames at everyone that doesn't share your opinion make you look less mature. At least flame with tact.

 

So, when you can puncuate your posts, and stop using nullified points, you will most likely be treated with respect. Online, people are treated the way they type. If they type like they're undeducated, they will be treated so. Type educatedly and mature, and you'll get farther in life. I learned that the hard way.

 

Oh yea, and here's the Eastern Hemisphere.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Kamikaze_Badger

[hockeyrcks9901]

Sorry, I thought you were going by hemisphere also. And I'm not trying to be mean or anything but I just find it hard to understand some of your posts when you use the return key every 6 words instead of using punctuation. Your last post was legible and thats what I was looking for. Some of previous posts did not have any periods which made it very difficult to determine where one sentence ended and another began. And I really couldn't understand 1-2 of your posts...I wasn't trying to insult you, I was just trying to understand your argument so I could respond.

[LiquidPCB]

Ok I have calmed down I can be a hothead.Alternative opinions are welcome, I welcome your posts it would be not much fun without you posting Thankyou. I will use all the appropriate puntuation just for your.

I can assure you , the term westerner refers to the east being what in geographical terms is the western hemishere ,as it refers to the old world.

Now I dont disagree with the principles of freeing iraq as far as the implementation is concerned I say it far from ideal.

5-6 body bags per day is far to high for a foreign countries freedom ( And I dont know the soldiers I dont have personal feelings for them as individuals)

I think basically Iraq should fight for its own freedom which is basically what they doing now but american troops are targets too as Iraq is trying to form a police force and army.

The problems strarted way back we could have crippled Iraq but they were still selling lots of Oil by road.

And if you think economic pressure is lame we brought down the entire soviet union with it.

Thats why saddam killed the kurds they were in the way of illigal oil sales in the north.

Now we cant go back so Iraq should be fast tracked to withdrawal . I care more about american lives than what happens in Iraq, I am sorry thats just how I feel.We could have taken Iraq way back in the first gulf war but people just wouldnt back a war before 9/11 even when Iraq attacked, oh how things have changed.

Now the question you have to ask your self is. Is it worth thousands of american lives for personal freedoms of Iraqies.Thats because its not about saving us from terrorism the terrorist can come and go all over the world.Things have gone wrong in Iraq and you dont have to agree with everything because you agree with the initial invasion.

Capitilism is the strongest weapon we have. this is what I already wrote about it is a quote of a quote QUOTE " Tear down captilism "

thats the most rediculous thing I have ever heard you cant stop captilism ever

its how the world operates anyway ,all other systems in the world rely on this system working as world trade and prices are driven only from the democratic nations like europe the UK USA and AUS

the other economies rely on these wealthy nations because of the way things were set up after world war 2 largely.

What you can do and a lot of the smaller most rich nations

mainly northern europe integrate policies which uphold individial freedoms and social justice for less fortunate eg disabled disadvantaged people and world wide help as well for those problems like natural disaster and other that capilism creates in poorer nations

It doesnt destroy capatalism I think it enhances free trade and respect around the world

You dont need to destroy anything far from it capatilism has done great things and can do many more its not the system that is wrong its the implementation.

Now I am really sorry about this essay but the basic point is Foreign policy should make the world safer for everyone and that includes soldiers its not about stomping around and hoping youll crush your enemies ,governments have to use there heads ,or things go terriblly wrong and things get out of control like they have.

We are very strong the world trade center was demolished and the stock market didnt even skip a beat, were here to stay its how we choose to win this fight with our biggest assets or puny little machine guns.

And heres another crappy analogy for you "the pen is mightier than the sword"

Edited December 11, 2005 by LiquidPCB

[Kamikaze_Badger]

While a good amount of that I do agree with, one thing that should be set straight: US Soldiers made the CHOICE to join the Army. They knew what they would be risking. It was their choice, their sacrifice.

 

And a few body bags a day? Try a few THOUSAND per hour in some larger battles in the past. Imagine if CNN and CBS were around in the Civil War:

 

"Twenty thousand soldiers were killed today by Southerners standing up for their rights and freedoms. Abraham Lincoln was too cold hearted to comment on the deaths of these young men."

Edited December 11, 2005 by Kamikaze_Badger

[94Camaro]

Now the question you have to ask your self is. Is it worth thousands of american lives for personal freedoms of Iraqies.

Let me ask you to do this for me. Look beyond the nationalism. Forget for just a minute that the dying soldier are Americans. Think about the fact that 2000 people have been willing to give their lives, so that 27 million people can have the chance to know freedom. Why does it matter that we are Americans helping Iraqis? We're people helping people. And I think that's a dang good thing.

[LiquidPCB]

So you think its worth it thats ok its your opinion and its valuable and valid

I dont think it is and a lot of Iraqies dont think like us as they want islamic law, they dont like or want a democracy like we do . They

deny our help and despise us for it.Unfortunately they are still living in the middle ages and are not quite up to speed thats what fundamentlist religous styles do to people,they dont like individualism they think it is dangerous.What they do want is to be ruled by the mulas who "dictate"everything to them it a completely different way at coming at government and laws and thats why this change to democracy

isnt quite going how we would like it.I find it very difficult to understand myself because I am very individualist and cant stand others dictating how Ilive.I would never want to blindly follow anyone especially without

having a vote of my own even though our democracy isnt perfect its the best we have.

[Tomatosauce]

US Soldiers made the CHOICE to join the Army. They knew what they would be risking. It was their choice, their sacrifice.

 

Just keep in mind please Kamikaze that you're sitting behind a computer at home with the ability to speak out. Yes, soldiers chose to join the army. Although a lot of them have watched "movie" war about WWII and such. A war that had a VERY direct point. And had a sense of accomplishment. Modern warfare is the ultimate evil. As time progresses countries discover new ways to shock each other and decimate each other. In Mogadishu women actually shielded the gunmen while holding infants. Hoping that the US soldiers wouldnt shoot. Of course they didnt put THAT in the movie "Black Hawk Down".

 

I'm sorry I dont mean to rant, I just really wish you'd stop saying "It was their choice". If you were making minimum wage, and had kids or lived in a bad area. Would'nt you jump at the chance to join the Army with 50k for college, 12k for enlistment bonus? To some people $12,000.00 is just like a cool million. And most soldiers join as kids. Yeah they're 18. (Unless their parents give permission and they can actually join at 17) But 18 year olds still make rash decisions. I know, I joined at 19. When I joined there was no current threat of war, in fact the Army was afraid all the old vets were going to ETS or retire before another good war started. They cant have that, they lose their experienced soldiers.

 

Just remember, joining ANY military branch has its risks. But it must be hard for a lot of them. This war is constantly being questioned and they probably thoguht their jobs were done back in Afghanistan. The "War" is over, has been for a while. It has become a "Peacekeeping Mission" and will stay that way until the Iraqi government can stabilize enough to support themselves.

 

Iraq will not be a "Secure" country in our lifetime. (Secure in a sense of relative civility) But hopefully at some point they can come out of the dark ages.

 

These acts of cruelty are terrible. (If thats what that video was) We've all seen terrible things in our lives. All that matters is wether it is affecting us. Seriously, you dont see us invading Africa to oust all of the warlords that commit ethnic cleansing every decade. Man is capable of terrible things. Just be thankful that you live in a nation where your greatest worry at times is just a video in another country not involving US citizens. (Hopefully not US)

[LoArmistead]

I think five or six bodybags per day will more than justify the 1.3 million innocent people that died under Saddam's reign, the 3,000 people that died on 9/11, and the countless many more that will die due to random acts of terror in the process of turning Iraq over from a totalitarian dictatorship to a full-blown democracy in less time than it took our own country to turn into one. God Bless America, God Bless our leaders, our military, and our cause.