Ricer Or American Muscle?

[fire_storm]

Voted american mussle car.

[cchalogamer]

in my opinion they sound cooler B)

Yeah glad u said in your opinion bc compared to a 350/454 chevy a little baby ricer motor and an elongated fart muffler sounds like crap to me lol

 

 

But they each do have pros and cons, i go the beefy way personally I would love to have an old Corvette or a new Viper, even a god old Mustang from back when having one actually ment something

[zigen]

hey our lil ricer engines can sound like ur 350/454's too... take a VQ35 from a 350Z and get $2k to the exhaust and it'll sound like it too

Edited December 2, 2004 by zigen

[ccokeman]

A 350z no longer fits the ricer image of the 240,260,or280z's. It falls into the realm of supercars competing with corvettes, vipers , lotus ,porsche and whomever else.

[94Camaro]

hey our lil ricer engines can sound like ur 350/454's too... take a VQ35 from a 350Z and get $2k to the exhaust and it'll sound like it too

Exactely. You have to spend 2 grand on just the exhaust to get the good sound. Ours comes stock.

 

 

IMO, torque steer on a rwd car is waaay more fun than going around a curve.

I gotta agree with bigred too though.

[DECwakeboarder]

But they each do have pros and cons, i go the beefy way personally I would love to have an old Corvette or a new Viper, even a god old Mustang from back when having one actually ment something

Classic 'vettes have no power to them at all. But I will say that they are one of the sexiest cars ever made (C3's in the 70's) I voted for the american muscle as well. Dodge and Chevy all the way, I'd rather drive a crappy lil ricer than a Ford tho...

[ccokeman]

Here's the issue as i see it . Most of you guys are under the 30yr old threshhold and grew up with ricers and just dont know any better. Just think about this the founder of Wal-Mart always was proud to say he bought american made goods for his stores now the kids buy it all from across the ocean. The times are a changin.

[bigred]

you guys wanna talk about a NICE sound?

 

ford 473cui V8 w/3 stage super charger. exhaust comes right off of each exhaust manifold, down along the frame rails and dumps out infront of the rear tires of one of the broncos I've built up. all natural sound of several hundered HP without mufflers or anything like that.

 

 

I'll have to find the audio clips I recorded of it... it's amazing to hear this thing in person it's even more fun to pull up next to a ricer reving his little 1.4L toy engine and let the big monster rev up just a little.... let alone to the point it hits 3k rpms.

[94Camaro]

454 big block in a 76 chevy, exhaust dumping in front of the rear tires. B)

You hear the low growl coming before you ever see the truck

[airman]

I didn't choose. It's just comparing apples and oranges.

 

Let's break down the arguments, shall we? (between domestic and imports) I've been real involved in cars for a long time...and been on the track working on the cars and everything. I've been doing this for years, and have worked on plenty of engines, both import and domestic. I've been around engines being built as part of an internship.

 

 

1): Japanese cars are more "high tech." In general, this has not been true in a while. When it WAS true, it only meant all these fancy electronics and "intelligent engine management." Not engine layout. DOHC? Not modern at all. DOHC engines have been in production engines since about 1912. Even the US had production aluminum, DOHC, 4 valve per cyl engines in 1932, and not just one company! Turbos? The first production turbocharged cars were American: the 1962 Corvair and the 1962 Olds F85 (in fact, the Olds had a 3.5 liter all aluminum V8 that was turbocharged with water injection).

 

The thinwall pushrod V8 was designed as a "high tech" alternative to the really complex and really expensive OHC engines. Metallurgy made it feasible to make a larger displacement engine in a very simple, compact form. That's what advancing tech ALWAYS does. And the tech in pushrod V8s doesn't sit still: advancements in metallurgy, manufacturing, and electronic controls mean that the new V8s make more power than the big ones before, while prividing cleaner air and better fuel mileage AND daily driveability that they never had in the heyday of the musclecar.

 

2) Moddability. Sorry, but whoever says that you can't mod the generic musclecar V8 is bullsh!t. Turbocharging, supercharging, nitrous, changing displacement, changing compression ratios, cam changes, induction and exhaust, everything is available.

 

3) There IS no replacement for displacement. That is why the Honda S2000 doesn't use a modded 1.6 liter or 1.8 liter version of the engine in the ITR. They could easily make the same hp with the smaller engine, but they decided to make it larger. They made it larger, and yet though the hp isn't really different. Larger displacement makes better power for street use. The engine is more flexible, providing greater power over a wider rpm range.

 

Anyone can make a small engine have good power; make it rev more. Everyone's been doing that forever with Fiats, BMWs, Mazdas, MGs, Triumphs, etc. There's no secret. But the small engine getting good horsepower loses it's flexibility. Normally, the engine builder tries to increase displacement as well. That's why Porsche does not run heavily tuned 2 liter 6 cyl engines in the 911 anymore. over the years, the engine has been going up in displacement from 2 liters, to 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, 3.0, 3.2, 3.3, 3.6 liters. Even the turbo porsches have gone from 3 liters to 3.6. Why? More flexibility. I mean, it's not difficult to make 400 hp from a turbo 2 liter, so why haven't they? Because the larger displacement gives the same power over a wider powerband AND puts less stress on the engine.

 

 

3) hp/liter. Closely tied to the last argument. Hp/liter is a pointless phrase, when used the way most import fans do. it is only important in racing series where displacement is limited, and in countries where displacement is taxed. Otherwise, it's making an engine more complex and expensive for no real benefit. AND, when comparing a small displacement engine to a larger one, it IS easier to get a larger hp/liter figure. A typical R/C car gas engine makes on the order of 450-600 hp per liter. Do you think it would move your car around very well?

 

A lot of times, you hear the argument, "because they get 200hp from a 2 liter engine, if Honda/Toyota/etc made a 5.7 liter engine it would make 600-700 hp!" Unfortunately, that's not true. Otherwise why can't Honda get the same hp/liter they already get out of their 600cc sport bikes? If they got the same hp/liter from their car engines that they get from their street bike engines, the ITR would make over 350 hp in stock form, and the S2000 would be pumping out more hp than the Corvette Z06! Going back to the previous section, you can see why they increase the displacement instead of increase the hp alone. The resulting power is much more flexible and useful in non racing form.

 

4) Physical size. The typical small block Chevy is physically smaller than an inline 6, or DOHC V8 or V6. Since 'the early '90s, they've been all aluminum, so they weigh less than most I6 or V6 (or imported V8s). the engine is not the reason the cars that hold them are heavy. And if they are put into smaller cars, they rarely change the weight balance or overall weight by any noticeable amount. Same for the small block Ford (which is physically smaller yet, but only comes in an iron block).

 

5)Drag racing. Guys, the late model import stuff is pretty impressive to those of us who were around in the heyday of the musclecar, and the beginnings of teh sport compact movement. But as vwhobo knows, air cooled Bugs beat them all there with simple pushrod engines running 9 second quarter miles a couple decades ago...

 

But when it comes to straight line accellearation, it's only now that the most serious imports are getting to the zone of the more serious domestic cars. It's a good thing (and I for one am glad to see it, having been a fan of Japanese sport compacts for decades), but it isn't a case of superiority of the imports. The fastest emissions legal Mustang is running 7s... On a street legal small block V8. The imports running 7s are not street legal. But street legal domestics doing that are not a new thing. And ones running 8s and 9s are not uncommon, while 8 and 9 second imports are still pretty rare. And vastly more expensive.

 

6) road racing/autocross. The argument is domestics can't handle. Usually spouted by someone who has never seen american cars road racing or autocrossing, or someone who drove a buddy's drag race Camaro or Mustang and assumed that's a representative sample. The truth is they work pretty good, and any trip to a major road race or autocross event will confirm that. If you don't go to one of them, and still think they can't handle, your opinion is without merit. I've been doing both for a couple decades, in both american and imported cars. My opinion is that either domestic or imported are good choices.

 

 

GOD i wish i had TKC in there o__O

 

/rant

Edited December 11, 2004 by airman

[sdy284]

A 350z no longer fits the ricer image of the 240,260,or280z's. It falls into the realm of supercars competing with corvettes, vipers , lotus ,porsche and whomever else.

no, a 350z cannot compete (stock) with any of those cars (i'm talking about the supercars you listed), in any performance segment

Edited December 3, 2004 by sdy284

[jkdmaster]

Classic 'vettes have no power to them at all. But I will say that they are one of the sexiest cars ever made (C3's in the 70's) I voted for the american muscle as well. Dodge and Chevy all the way, I'd rather drive a crappy lil ricer than a Ford tho...

No true, there are a few that have immense power, believe the 72 or 73 had a 454 with like 400 or 500 hp, and there are a couple more like the late 80s twin twin turbod vette , it was after market but, its still fast. NOTHING can beat a modded Grand National and they are so much more badass than any other car on the road. Sound wise.......this kid i knows got a GN with cut exhaust at the mid section, So crazyyy, shakes everything within 10-20 feet. Oh yeah, Buicks rock.