Subwoofers

[xpandapuss]

First off, if you really want some THUMP!!! you should go with Bandpass enclosures. BP with dual 10" subs will amaze you. If you up the ante to dual 12's or 15's or even single you'll be da man!!! [sorry can't give a suggestion on amps since I'm partial to Fostgate and JBL.]

Edited September 12, 2004 by xpandapuss

[General912]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id...81&type=product

 

What do you think? What should i do for an amp? I want to have my speekers wired to my amp too. I listen to some rock heavy to alternitive. Depends really.

[AMD_Wannabe]

First off, if you really want some THUMP!!! you should go with Bandpass enclosures. BP with dual 10" subs will amaze you. If you up the ante to dual 12's or 15's or even single you'll be da man!!! [sorry can't give a suggestion on amps since I'm partial to Fostgate and JBL.]

bandpass boxes are teh absolue WORST boxes for thump

 

tuned ported boxes and vented boxes

are the way to go for thump

 

 

also band pass boxes only give you an incredibly limited range of the sound wave, the enclosure absorbs most of the rest

 

 

i had 2 12 inch audiobahns in a vented box that run an 130 spl

in bandpass 115, and the bandpass boxes tend to be more expensive

[Waco]

Way way way too much misinformation in this thread. Size has absolutely nothing to do with sound quality at all, period. Bigger subs have the potential to get louder, but they don't have any different sound quality versus smaller subs(besides lower distortion, better low end extension, better efficiency, and more output).

 

Sealed box: easiest to build, tolerant of construction errors, and peaks higher up in the response to make the music sound "tighter" for most people, best transient response when properly designed

 

Ported box: harder to build, not tolerant of errors in construction, slightly slower transient response, more output over the audible range, lower distortion around tuning

 

Bandpass box: extremely hard to build, won't work at all and/or will sound like crap if designed improperly, poor transient response, extremely good efficiency and output capability

 

To learn more (since I'm not spending all night typing here), go to this website and read a little bit. It will explain just about anything you need to know about electronics/audio, and it will blast all those misconceptions out of your heads.

[AMD_Wannabe]

Way way way too much misinformation in this thread. Size has absolutely nothing to do with sound quality at all, period. Bigger subs have the potential to get louder, but they don't have any different sound quality versus smaller subs(besides lower distortion, better low end extension, better efficiency, and more output).

 

Sealed box: easiest to build, tolerant of construction errors, and peaks higher up in the response to make the music sound "tighter" for most people, best transient response when properly designed

 

Ported box: harder to build, not tolerant of errors in construction, slightly slower transient response, more output over the audible range, lower distortion around tuning

 

Bandpass box: extremely hard to build, won't work at all and/or will sound like crap if designed improperly, poor transient response, extremely good efficiency and output capability

 

To learn more (since I'm not spending all night typing here), go to this website and read a little bit. It will explain just about anything you need to know about electronics/audio, and it will blast all those misconceptions out of your heads.

i am no guru on subs but after 500+ installs and working with practically every sub made in the past 2 years i know a bit more than you obviously think

 

smaller subs do have better quality to them, he didnt want thump, unless i read wrong, adn smaller subs give just that, 8 to 10 inch subs have short throws that reult in tight hits, as oppposed to a 12 15 or 18, or even the 34 audiobahn makes, that have longer throws that help them gain lower bass and allow them to move some serious air

 

as far as boxes go, yes, and no

 

for his application a sealed box would be best, but for thump a vented or ported box would be best. I hate bandpass with a passion, its the dumbest invention ever

 

the no part comes from working with so many different subs, certain subs sound better in certain boxes.

 

If you cant guess im an audioahn fan, and their subs sound like crap in sealed boxes, the sealed box doesn't contain enough air for the subs to hit to their full potential. So putting tyhem in a tuned ported box *which if you have any patience at all, would understand they are just as easy to build as a sealed* is the best bet

 

JL's and Apline type R subs sound better in sealed boxes, so really the box war depends on not just what he wants but what he ends up buying too

 

 

Like i said, I am not a guru, but I know that I know this stuff, and i have no doubt you know your stuff too, and the issue with that is no 2 audiophiles will ever agree on any issue

[p8baller07]

When building a ported box... How do you tune them?

[ciddono]

When building a ported box... How do you tune them?

Use the manufacturers literature or contact them to determine correct enclosure volume, port size, and port volume per whichever speaker you plan to use.

[Waco]

i am no guru on subs but after 500+ installs and working with practically every sub made in the past 2 years i know a bit more than you obviously think

 

smaller subs do have better quality to them, he didnt want thump, unless i read wrong, adn smaller subs give just that, 8 to 10 inch subs have short throws that reult in tight hits, as oppposed to a 12 15 or 18, or even the 34 audiobahn makes, that have longer throws that help them gain lower bass and allow them to move some serious air

 

as far as boxes go, yes, and no

 

for his application a sealed box would be best, but for thump a vented or ported box would be best.  I hate bandpass with a passion, its the dumbest invention ever

 

the no part comes from working with so many different subs, certain subs sound better in certain boxes.

 

If you cant guess im an audioahn fan, and their subs sound like crap in sealed boxes, the sealed box doesn't contain enough air for the subs to hit to their full potential.  So putting tyhem in a tuned ported box *which if you have any patience at all, would understand they are just as easy to build as a sealed* is the best bet

 

JL's and Apline type R subs sound better in sealed boxes, so really the box war depends on not just what he wants but what he ends up buying too

 

 

Like i said, I am not a guru, but I know that I know this stuff, and i have no doubt you know your stuff too, and the issue with that is  no 2 audiophiles will ever agree  on any issue

From this post I can see that you obviously know less that I even gave you credit for. Smaller subs have to make a LONGER throw to produce the same sound, because they have smaller surface area. It used to be that manufacturers would take their 10 inch sub model and put a 15 inch cone on it, making the subs control sucks and make the bass muddy, but those days are long gone.

 

Obviously you haven't done 500+ installs or worked with "practically every sub made" if you make mistakes like that, unless you are just blindly installing things in peoples cars. I know that different drivers are ideal for different boxes, that is a basic concept that any installer should master before even beginning to think about installing a system. Apparently you really haven't looked into this, as you make general statements about brands working in certain types of boxes when you should be talking about specific drivers. You have to align the enclosure to each subwoofer, you can't just toss any sub in any box.

 

Your comment about the sealed box not being able to "contain enough air for the subs to hit their full potential" is ridiculous. If that was the case, then you could just make the sealed box larger to fix the problem. Comments like that lead me to believe you don't understand the underlying concepts that are crucial to building properly aligned stereo systems. Also, Audiobahn subs sound like crap in just about every box because they are poorly designed, though they do get kinda loud in a good ported box.

 

Also, bandpass is not the stupidest design ever, which shows just how much you don't know. It has the lowest distortion and highest efficiency of all the other basic box types, short of folded horns (which usually don't fit in to car audio). The design of the box also makes the need for a sharp sloped crossover not as important, since the box itself blocks out the upper frequency range, dropping off past tuning on the high side much like a vented box drops 24 db/octave below tuning. The only disadvantage to bandpass is that the larger the frequency response you want the lower the efficiency goes, but usually if you have a strong front stage you can build the range small enough (from 30-75 hz is usually good) so that the efficiency and transient response remains high. The other disadvantage is that they are extremely hard to build, and any miscalculation will throw the response of the sub out the window. They are also typically 2-3 times larger in volume than the ideal sealed box for the woofer.

 

Like you said, you are not a guru....and I don't think you know enough about designing systems to be installing "500+" stereos. If you have installed 500+ stereos, I highly doubt that you spent the necessary amount of time correctly aligning the subs with the enclosures. Also, I don't think that any true audiophile would EVER have a extremely crappy bling brand like Audiobahn as their favorite brand. So you may be right that no two audiophiles will agree...we don't need to worry about that because you aren't an audiophile. <_<

 

EDIT: To properly build a ported box for a certain sub, you should get the thiele/small parameters for the driver and use a box design program to figure out what design will be the best. Usually manufacturer recommendations are based on what the marketing department thinks is okay (as far as size goes) and then they try to do their best after that. For some subs this works fine, though with many it fails miserably.

 

For example, my subs in my car are recommended to be in a 1.25 cubic foot sealed box, or a 1.75 cubic foot vented box tuned to 35 hz. They have a qtc of 1.2 in that small of a sealed box, which makes them sound like crap. In 3 cubes each they have a qtc of .75, which is much much better for sound quality (.707 alignment is ideal). Ported goes the same way...they need to be in 3+ cubes to get a decently smooth response curve.

 

Your best bet would be to download WinISD and play around with the sub you are thinking about getting until you find a good box that will fit in your car. I didn't care about size when I built my system (I was just trying to get the best sound quality possible)...I ended up chopping a good bit of my car apart to build the box into the car (I had to precut the panels and assemble them in the car.

Edited September 12, 2004 by Thewacokid

[General912]

has anyone ever heard of lightning audio? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id...81&type=product

[Waco]

has anyone ever heard of lightning audio? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id...81&type=product

I've heard them...for the price they are okay...package deals usually suck but that one doesn't look too horrible. I don't know if you'd be able to find two 12" subs(of decent quality), a box(which looks to be decently sized as well), and an amp for that price. It won't be incredibly loud or have awesome sound quality, but it will definately sound better/be louder than no subs at all. Plus, you won't have to build your own box.

 

EDIT: Just noticed that amp is only 150 watts when bridged...I would stay away from that, especially with a sealed box. <_<

Edited September 12, 2004 by Thewacokid

[General912]

Can someone throw together a package deal for like $300 of all i would need for amping my speekers and adding subs. Please include wiring.

[Special_K]

Lightning audio isn't that good. My friend got their two 12" package and trust me... you want more than that... (The sound quality sucked). I was able to get twin Pioneer 12's with an 800W Kenwood Amp for about $270.

 

Make your own box, closed. This will allow for the tight bass of Rock, etc. without loosing the thunder associated with other types of music. Use high density particle board, I seperated both subs, so that it's like they're in their own boxes (One box, two chambers, not ported). Mine is also 3/4" and with the subs on there, it's airtight.

 

Look for a deal, usually at Bestbuy, where they have two subs for $100, or $120. Make sure their high quality... again Lightning isn't the way to go. Then check out local audio shops for deals on Amps and installation. I'll see if I can find anything for you online.

 

This looks like a nice sub setup, I like the look of the box and it'll compliment your car. Then you have $150 to spend on an amp.

 

This is the Amp I have, it's nice...

 

These subs are very nice, you may just wanna check these out.