Military Action in Syria

[cjloki]

Yep, and the delay/hesitation is exactly why I stated earlier in this thread, "I think Obama is just inadvertently making Bush look good right now."

 

Obama has already effed up the situation no matter what happens now. It's a lose-lose situation.

yes it seems that way, but please keep in mind that "doing the right thing" in this case, entails the president enlisting the cooperation of a hostile congress who has been less than willing to work with this administration on many levels for quite some time,...the president balked, true that, which in hind sight, changes the scheme of things yet again...i believe Israel would benefit from a very strong show of our support right now...no, right now,...right NOW...

[VaporX]

No, the time has come for us to pull back into ourselves. I mean the world screams when we take action and begs us to when we do not. The League of Arab nations can police their own, send in their own troops to deal with this. The UN can actually grow some balls, demand ALL member states to chip in equally and deal with this. For all our effort to help the world we have been villianized around it. The time has come for us to tell the world they are own their own for a while.

[wevsspot]

1. Precise and surgical strikes aren't an option any more, as key target designations have already relocated.  If we just want to lob missiles into Syria at what "used" to be valid targets, that seems silly to me.

 

2. Even if the targets were still where everyone thought they were, a missile strike isn't much more than a slap on the wrist likely to to inflame Assad and his allies (Iran, Russia and China) even more.  Assad will likely intensify the assault and murder of his own people - or the conflict spills over and becomes a regional war - or the conflict spirals out of control and results in a major conflict involving the US, Russia and China.

 

3. The UN should be disbanded, or at minimum the US should withdraw participation and funding.

 

4. The devil that you know (Assad) is probably better than the devil you don't (whoever or whatever would fill the leadership vacuum if the current government crumbled).

 

5. It doesn't take much common sense to see that the US has a pretty piss poor track record over the last decade of 'regime" change that results in leaving other countries better off than before, and the US safer than it was before our involvement.  Face it..... the last war the US was involved in that resulted with the world in a better place than it was before ended in 1945.

 

6. Can the US really afford to go it alone?  Either in political capital or green backs?

 

IMHO it's time for the US to take care of itself and then we can start worrying about everything else going on in the world.  We have a crumbling infrastructure, one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and Obamacare is looking like it is going to double or triple the cost of insurance coverage for hard working Americans that have had decent and fairly affordable heath insurance coverage available through their employers for years.  Unemployment is still at unacceptable levels and we have record numbers of citizens on government assistance; food stamps, social security, welfare etc.

[SpeedCrazy]

^100% correct. I couldn't agree more

[wevsspot]

Thanks for the vote of confidence SC  

[VaporX]

I am not sure we can go it alone but I think it is time to balance the way we deal with others. If the UN wants us to participate then they need to change the policy to EVERY member has to put up the same amount in money, manpower and materials. This would lower the cost for the larger countries but it also means that the smaller countries are actually members and not just leaching. If we pay a larger share we should have a larger vote.

 

I also think in trade we need to make clear to other countries, the exact same tariff structure you put on our imports to you we are putting on your imports to us. Lets level the trade playing field.

 

Wev is right, we have enough issues here at home that need resolution to not worry about the rest of the world. Time for others to step up and put some skin in the game.

[Bubbaxm2]

Not sure what you guys envision when you say we need to fix the problems here at home? While I do agree that our country is screwed up, the minute we stop trying to be a world super power we are done. Do you think that if we stop stepping in that it's going to be all loli pops and bubble gum? Hell no! It would just let the scumbags gather their strength and eventually lead us into WW3.

[wevsspot]

Bubba - while I agree with your viewpoint about the US position and role as a super power, we can only project that strength when we have the necessary resources to do so.  Face it, if we continue as we are going the US won't be a "super power" because we "cant" be a super power.  I think that being a super power requires leadership that is beyond reproach, nearly unlimited financial and natural resources and a citizenry that aspires to greatness.  It also requires a 'backbone" built on innovation, technology and industry.  Real industry that can transform a steel mold from cranking out wrenches to cranking out tank panels, or change an automobile factory into a missile factory.  Those are probably overly simplified examples but you get the picture.  Manufacturing and industry are dead in this country.  The middle class is all but dead in this country.  Our economy and currency are built on smoke and mirrors and the majority of US citizens are all too happy sitting on their rumps watching Sunday NFL or playing SIMS to give a hoot about aspiring to greatness.  Our leadership is (and has been for decades) reproachable, untrustworthy, dishonest, greedy and morally corrupt (for the most part).

 

WW3 is coming whether we like it or not, and it is coming regardless of what happens in Syria.  Or Iran, or China or Russia, or South Africa ad nauseam.

[Bubbaxm2]

I agree completely with what you are saying about the state of our country. Unfortunately none of the things you have mentioned are going to change. People are to busy sitting on their fat asses "liking" things to give two shits about any of it.

[VaporX]

Not sure what you guys envision when you say we need to fix the problems here at home? While I do agree that our country is screwed up, the minute we stop trying to be a world super power we are done. Do you think that if we stop stepping in that it's going to be all loli pops and bubble gum? Hell no! It would just let the scumbags gather their strength and eventually lead us into WW3.

I understand your point, mine is that we as a nation have been taught hard the lesson that no good deed goes unpunished. We give to the poor and berated for not giving more. We send troops to defend the innocent and called murderers for going in. We are told by nations to keep out nose out of issues and then when we do we are begged to come and help only to be berated again when we do.

 

I do not think turn back to worry about our nation first will fix everything but at least it is a start. Bringing home our troops will have a two fold effect. It will cut military costs and give the Army the manpower to do it's primary job, cover our borders. No more need for border patrol, our army can do the job. Trade balancing will mean a reduction in trade but also an increase in domestic item demand as we cut imports.

 

Turning inward as a nation will not fix our issues but it will give a chance to fix them.

[Bubbaxm2]

Calling troops home leads to thousands more unemployed people, cutting military spending kills more jobs when contracts get cancelled.....see where I am going with this?

[IVIYTH0S]

Calling troops home leads to thousands more unemployed people, cutting military spending kills more jobs when contracts get cancelled.....see where I am going with this?

But they're jobs that shouldn't be needed, we shouldn't be planning/designing next drone, we should be improving battery technology for electric cars.

 

We shouldn't be building thousands of tanks (that we don't even use!) and start building up America's infastructure or improving the efficiency of OUR homes.

 

There are PLENTY of jobs that can be made once the economy jumps back from all the money we save as a country by not spending al lof it fighting these conflicts that don't concern us.