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Waco

Windows 8 is broken (RTC)

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It's more than that Ed.

 

If the clock is wrong then everything that relies on accurate timing is wrong. The clock, internal program timing, etc.

 

 

Yes, that's broken behavior no matter how you look at it. You can't just sweep it under the rug as benchmarks being wrong - everything that relies on an accurate clock will be wrong.

 

Waco, first this is only effecting, from what I am reading, Intel based systems, specifically Haswell. Further the only way this effects a user is if they are taking the system out of spec.

 

yet ANOTHER reason not to get windows 8, will the list ever stop?  :lol:

 

And now my point is made. The issue is being seen so far only in Haswell systems but it must be Windows that is broke. It is only when the system is out of spec but it must be Windows that is broke.

 

This is like saying that because I run my car on nitrous and my gas mileage suddenly sucks the car must be poorly designed. I love how the whole of the enthusiast community acts that if something forces some thought in overclocking, or might limit it or breaks a benchmark program then it must be severely flawed.

 

I am not saying that this should not be explored, it should, HWBOT is reacting because of the fact they are supporting competitive overclocking. They are making clear that this is a limited to specific circumstance issue and yet they are taking a shot gun approach with this. I mean based on their own findings any overclock NOT using the main bus speed and being purely at multiplier is not effected. They are however reacting to a competitive environment and that is the only place this is really an issue.

 

I am not sweeping it under the rug, I am saying that a problem that is effecting a very small percentage of users is being treated by many like the sky is falling, Got to love drama queens :-)

 

Okay will step this out further, there are limited reports coming in that people with older Intel chips are reporting this. I am not seeing anyone with an AMD system having this issue. More research needs to be done. Also this only effects overclocks of the main clock (taking the bus speed up not the multiplier).

Edited by ComputerEd

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It is only when the system is out of spec but it must be Windows that is broke.

Can you name another OS that doesn't calculate time correctly?

 

 

I specifically stated in the thread title that the RTC was broken. It is. And no, your car analogy makes zero sense. This is a system-wide break - the clock is relied on for far more than you know.

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It is only when the system is out of spec but it must be Windows that is broke.

Can you name another OS that doesn't calculate time correctly?

 

 

I specifically stated in the thread title that the RTC was broken. It is. And no, your car analogy makes zero sense. This is a system-wide break - the clock is relied on for far more than you know.

 

How can you claim something is broke when you used the system like it is designed to be used and it works perfect. It only fails when you push it outside the designed operation. I understand the clock is relied on but other than people overclocking and benchmarking it appears to have effected NO ONE. That is not a broke OS, that is an OS with an issue to resolve. Broke indicates it does not do the job it was designed to do, which is not the case.

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I never said it was forever broken; this just needs patched.

 

 

And yes, a clock that doesn't work is a broken clock. No other OS does this.

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It is only when the system is out of spec but it must be Windows that is broke.

Can you name another OS that doesn't calculate time correctly?

 

 

I specifically stated in the thread title that the RTC was broken. It is. And no, your car analogy makes zero sense. This is a system-wide break - the clock is relied on for far more than you know.

 

How can you claim something is broke when you used the system like it is designed to be used and it works perfect. It only fails when you push it outside the designed operation. I understand the clock is relied on but other than people overclocking and benchmarking it appears to have effected NO ONE. That is not a broke OS, that is an OS with an issue to resolve. Broke indicates it does not do the job it was designed to do, which is not the case.

 

If people wanted OSX then they'd buy it...but if they bought windows they'd want their overclocks to work :P

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And yes, a clock that doesn't work is a broken clock. No other OS does this.

But you see it DOES work, it only fails if you do something the computer is not specifically rated to do. This is like saying a chip that will not overclock is broken.

 

If people wanted OSX then they'd buy it...but if they bought windows they'd want their overclocks to work :P

 

Interesting so the 99% of Windows users that do not overclock do not count?

 

Guys let me clarify my position because I think a lot of people think I am sweeping this under a rig. I am on my soapbox because so many in the tech community have turned this from a MINOR glitch into a major condemnation of the entire OS. Yes I said minor glitch because it only, so far seems to raise it's head when an Intel system, mostly Haswell, is overclocked in Windows and on the bus speed. Now lets break that down a little, overclockers amount to about 1% of all Windows users and based on the comments in most enthusiast forums the number is even less in Windows 8. So we begin with a glitch that is effecting about 1% of users, but wait lets break it down more. Since it is mostly Haswell users we can cut that number down to about 0.5% and even then I am giving more than is likely. Now we can go further because again it seems this is only when done using tweaking software, I have not read of it happening if you do the tweaking in BIOS. If this is the case we can cut the number even more as most overclockers do their work in BIOS. So now we are down to 0.25%

 

At that level of side effects the FDA approves DRUGS!

 

Now IF this is found to cause issues outside of overclockers then there is a concern for sure but there is no evidence of this so far. If it is limited to overclockers it should be fixed no doubt but to say the OS is bad or broken and say it in a manner that assumes it is broken for everyone is sloppy and sky is falling type statements.

 

Based on the evidence I have read so far it would appear that what we have is Windows 8 changed the way it access the RTC. The method now used seems to cause a glitch when using in Windows tweaking software in some cases that result in changes to the bus speed using this software effecting the RTC. This means tweaks to the bus speed from within windows can potentially cause a glitch and should be avoided until the issue is resolved.

 

This is not the sky is falling that so many on many forums is claiming.

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yet ANOTHER reason not to get windows 8, will the list ever stop?  :lol:

 

 

And now my point is made.

 

 

dont take my comment to serious tho, i have a passion for hating windows 8 and when i see windows (pun intended) to bash on w8, i do so :P

Edited by WarWeeny

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Now IF this is found to cause issues outside of overclockers then there is a concern for sure but there is no evidence of this so far. If it is limited to overclockers it should be fixed no doubt but to say the OS is bad or broken and say it in a manner that assumes it is broken for everyone is sloppy and sky is falling type statements.

Who's saying the sky is falling? I posted this thread so that anyone with an overclocked (or underclocked) system running Windows 8 doesn't run it for anything critical. The RTC is used for much more than simple benchmarks and could actually cause many programs to return the wrong answer for things.

 

This is OCC. Presumably most people here OC. Presumably any of them running Windows 8 will have hidden issues with the RTC if they've changed their system base clock. Hence this thread as a heads-up.

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I think a real look at the number that overclock might surprise you. As for the Windows 8 I have now seen quite a few forums confirming that this is only an issue if you change the bus speed from within Windows. So the key here is if you are overclocking using a Windows based in OS solution then make sure it is NOT changing the bus speed.

 

As for the sky is falling, a thread entitled Windows 8 is Broken seems to be a bit over the top on this issue.

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I think a real look at the number that overclock might surprise you. As for the Windows 8 I have now seen quite a few forums confirming that this is only an issue if you change the bus speed from within Windows. So the key here is if you are overclocking using a Windows based in OS solution then make sure it is NOT changing the bus speed.

 

Regardless of the number of those who MAY OC a RTC issue is still an issue. Never knew talking about hardware flaws was somehow such a negative thing on the forums...

 

As for the sky is falling, a thread entitled Windows 8 is Broken seems to be a bit over the top on this issue.

 

You seem to be like the only one acting as if the sky were falling... :-/

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This is OCC. Presumably most people here OC. Presumably any of them running Windows 8 will have hidden issues with the RTC if they've changed their system base clock. Hence this thread as a heads-up.

 

 

This was what I was thinking, shouldn't a overclocking related OS issue be brought up?

 

As for speaking for the 99% of the Windows users, that's all good and decent of you but they're irrelevant (just like you pointed out). The percentage of affected users will be way higher on an overclocking forum than .25% so yeah.. Forgot where I was heading with this.

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It is only when the system is out of spec but it must be Windows that is broke.

Can you name another OS that doesn't calculate time correctly?

 

 

I specifically stated in the thread title that the RTC was broken. It is. And no, your car analogy makes zero sense. This is a system-wide break - the clock is relied on for far more than you know.

 

How can you claim something is broke when you used the system like it is designed to be used and it works perfect. It only fails when you push it outside the designed operation. I understand the clock is relied on but other than people overclocking and benchmarking it appears to have effected NO ONE. That is not a broke OS, that is an OS with an issue to resolve. Broke indicates it does not do the job it was designed to do, which is not the case.

 

If people wanted OSX then they'd buy it...but if they bought windows they'd want their overclocks to work :P

 

i'm curious what you came up with ivi ?... go or no go ?

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