Newtown Massacre

[DanTheGamer11]

Mass Media is mainly to blame 

[wevsspot]

Religion/"faith" has no place in government or law making.

 

Really......?

 

On what document can you see possibly the first written and recorded prohibition against murder, theft and other mortal sins?  Certainly not the criminal law code of ---insert your city, country---- here.  These laws were clearly spelled out in a document that is undeniably religious and faith based.

[Kamikaze_Badger]

Ah the willful ignorance of religion. Enjoy it, I used to before I freed my mind.

[VaporX]

Ah the willful ignorance of religion. Enjoy it, I used to before I freed my mind.

If your faith was based on ignorance then I understand your position. Mine however is not and trust me I am probably freer than you are.

[wevsspot]

Ignorance means uninformed.  Willful ignorance means intentionally being uninformed.

 

I don't consider myself either one of those things.  Just because I'm a Christian doesn't make me ignorant, just makes me saved.  I don't think anyone who has given conscious thought to faith is an ignorant person.  Whether that conscious thought process yields agnostic or even atheistic beliefs.  In truth, even an atheist has faith - faith that there isn't any God.  

 

Frankly, I only feel sorrow for folks that haven't found salvation, rest and peace through the same savior that delivered me.  That's the cool thing about my faith.  It wasn't forced on me, and I'd never force it onto anyone else.  It's a personal choice.  I lose nothing by having my faith, but everything I gained is beyond measure.

 

I read an interest quote years ago;

 

Everyone finds a God on their deathbed.

[Fogel]

Swiching treatment modalities was just a convenient excuse for slashing spending on mental health.

 

I have a feeling you are right.

 

I'll go on the record to say that I agree with what Huck had to say and those that agreed or gave him +1 here already. Not to inflame anyone, but just to clarify my convictions on the matter.  However, that debate would really need to be split into two different categories.  There is evil, and there is mental illness.  The two are not mutually dependent on one another, and in fact I'd propose that they are exclusive of each other.  A mentally ill person isn't necessarily evil (and in fact in most cases I believe exactly the opposite).  And a person who commits evil acts isn't necessarily mentally ill.  Personally I strongly believe that removing God and the paddle from the principle, coaches or teacher's hand hasn't done our children any favors.  

 

I wouldn't ever agree with his post because its logic is completely flawed.   If someone used that argument while trying to defend our rights to bear arms it would be picked apart ...easily.   I never understood why people (usually the internet) trying to defend our rights to bear arms keep pointing out murder rate is on the rise.   Great so murder rate is on the rise and these massacres are on insane upward trend.   How long till people who have never fired a gun in their life say, "Enough is enough!"   And your best argument is ...well people are already killing people so let's keep arming up!

 

If you want to protect your rights to bear arms try figuring out the root cause.  You say mental illness is mutually exclusive from evil and I agree ...no one said different.   But if someone is mentally unstable you don't push their buttons nor put them in position where they can do great harm.   It's not that they're evil... its that some act without thought.   I'm not sure how many people you been around that are mentally unstable but when they act out it is almost like no one is home.   They realize what they done afterwards.   There is a reason why they are called mentally unstable.   And to be clear here I am not talking about the mental illness that media has latched onto in the last 10 years.  Think Lenny from Of Mice and Men.   Mental illness is a very delicate subject and there is a lot of misconception about it and people get really defensive about it so no one wants to talk about it but someone needs to.   Not just for those without mental illness but for those with it too.  Many want help and if people are too afraid to talk about it how are they going to get it?   It's like Health Care.   No one wants to talk about it so nothing is getting done to fix it.   So now we have Obama Care on the horizon because no one before him wanted to solve it... O Yay ...NOT!

 

A few are getting uptight on terminology and its solving nothing.   One of the most important things that will go into determining how the 1st Amendment is protected IS appearance.   You are talking about many in Congress who have probably never held a gun before, let alone fired one.   This is why people need to lay low and stop trying incite a riot.   Let the people who defend our rights do their job.

 

People want to keep pointing out that an Assault Rifle needs to be capable of Fully Auto.   An Assault Rifle just needs to be capable of switching fire rate, but civilian versions only have Semi-Auto so by situation Fully Auto is removed.  Most people have a hard time controlling fully auto.   This is why Marines love using burst fire or even single action bolt (mostly snipers anyway).  You have far more control and accuracy with single shot and burst fire than fully auto.   In the Aurora massacre a fully auto gun would have done more damage since everyone was compacted into a small area but many times fully auto isn't the best choice.  But as far as who hunts with what, everyone has their own style.  I will take a .308.  You can use weight to your advantage.  If you are running after a deer/elk you already lost the advantage.

[travism21]

Ignorance means uninformed.  Willful ignorance means intentionally being uninformed.

 

I don't consider myself either one of those things.  Just because I'm a Christian doesn't make me ignorant, just makes me saved.  I don't think anyone who has given conscious thought to faith is an ignorant person.  Whether that conscious thought process yields agnostic or even atheistic beliefs.  In truth, even an atheist has faith - faith that there isn't any God.  

 

Frankly, I only feel sorrow for folks that haven't found salvation, rest and peace through the same savior that delivered me.  That's the cool thing about my faith.  It wasn't forced on me, and I'd never force it onto anyone else.  It's a personal choice.  I lose nothing by having my faith, but everything I gained is beyond measure.

 

I read an interest quote years ago;

 

Everyone finds a God on their deathbed.

Every man makes a god of his own desire.- Virgil

 

Edited December 20, 2012 by travism21

[Deathmineral]

 Personally I strongly believe that removing God and the paddle from the principle, coaches or teacher's hand hasn't done our children any favors.

It's "Principal".

 

Clearly removing the paddle couldn't have been that bad for us, we can actually spend our time learning stuff, like spelling, instead of being beaten, but what do I know, I failed almost all my classes in high school.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I'm glad we're arguing discussing religion and who is more free, I think those dead kids can really rest in peace knowing a bunch of computer geeks are discussing this.

[Andrewr05]

Everyone finds a God on their deathbed.

Even if if god were to exist, which I wont say Yay or Nay (though I live my life as if it were Nay), for letting this happen in the first place he/she is no higher power that I have any desire to worship.

 

Add in all massacres, rapes and/or miscellaneous atrocities he/she has let happen throughout history and this gives me not only no desire for worship but an inherent dislike for said deity as well.

 

Mind you this is excluding the terrible, disgusting and atrocious things that 'god' has directly commanded and or done him/herslef.

For that I vow to never lower myself to the authoritarian control that this psyocapath demands, even on my deathbed.

 

A mod should clean up this thread, create a religion thread and move all of this over there.

 

 

[Fogel]

Really Andrew, did you just blame God for all the atrocities of man?   I'm pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate if someone did that to you.

 

If God does exist, and someone more religious than I can correct me where I am wrong, I don't think he ever promised he would stop horrible crimes from happening.  Isn't that the whole point of Judgement Day?   What is the point of Judgement Day if we are all puppets being strung along and not atoneable for our own actions?

 

I blame the kid that did this and no one else.

[Kamikaze_Badger]

Some things people (like KB) need to realize is war isn't simply about numbers.   Sometimes the smallest attack can cause the biggest panic.   The "DC Sniper" had the whole DC Metro Area under lockdown pretty much.  Many people did not go to work or even to the store to buy groceries.   Before the DC Sniper it didn't matter what time of day you went into the grocery store you were always at least the 5th person in line, and usually farther down than that.   During the DC Sniper days you could walk straight up to the cashier any time, any day of the week.   The amount of people the DC Sniper killed pales in comparison to this kid but he caused panic on a massive scale.  Look at how much 9-11 damaged our pride and then resparked that pride.   It's not always about numbers and terrorists are smart enough to know that.   If you can get inside someone's head you are already fighting to win.   The battlefield isn't what it used to be.  It's not as clean cut as the Revolutionary War was but so many people in America believe if we get invaded it will be just like that.

 

At what point did one lunatics actions become a war? Or are you referring to all the controversies this is sparking?

 

I'll hide behind my own mental issues as an excuse for this, but I'm not seeing where a group of children dying quickly from a gun (to use logic from the gun control thread) is any worse than the thousands of senseless child deaths that occur each year. Is it just because it occurred in a school?

[Fogel]

At what point did one lunatics actions become a war? Or are you referring to all the controversies this is sparking?

 

I'll hide behind my own mental issues as an excuse for this, but I'm not seeing where a group of children dying quickly from a gun (to use logic from the gun control thread) is any worse than the thousands of senseless child deaths that occur each year. Is it just because it occurred in a school?

 

I thought you were military and would understand the references from your training but if you weren't military I guess that makes sense.  Whether foreign or domestic an enemy is still an enemy.   

 

Yes, there are thousands (if not more) who are always suffering but that doesn't mean we should simply sweep this under the rug with the Apathetic "it is what it is" Broom.   You don't get anything accomplished with that attitude.   It doesn't matter if it is a school, movie theater, or an army base ...there is a growing trend and it needs attention.