Are desktop PC's dying?

[Fogel]

You bring up a lot of really good points.

 

I think PC people turn up the graphics not only because they can but also because most of us are visual people and good graphics enhance the experience for us.

 

Any person who plays competitively though will turn down the graphics because there is always a display latency with everything turned up no matter good a PC is ...unless it is a really old game. And its not just FPS gamers, back when I played an MMO in order to maintain myself on top of the DPS parse I had to play around with settings that gave me the best visuals but didn't hold me back too much. If someone challenged me, tuning back my graphics settings gave me the edge.

 

I consider myself a PC Gamer, I started on the PC and I mostly play on the PC ...but I find the graphics on the PS3 pretty impressive actually. I don't know if it is because I have decent IPS TV, but I would stack up some of the best games on the PS3 to many PC games. Obviously the PS3 can't stand a chance against titles like BF3, Witcher 2, Metro, etc... but there are games I plug into my PS3 and say wow outloud.

 

You can load up a 2012 game on a 2006 console and it still looks great! Can a 2006 PC do the same with no upgrades?

 

 

So we pay more and get less gaming time for our money, and then we PC gamers wonder why there are so many console gamers. I will say about a year or two ago I made a concerted effort to play a FPS game with a stick. Frustrating to say the least! Though I stuck with it out of stubborness and competitiveness and I will say both sides have advantages and disadvantages. KB/M users have timing and accuracy advantage. Stick users have a movement advantage ...and a timing advantage vs 90-95% of the KB/M users when it comes to equipment use. A smart console player can go toe-2-toe with a PC gamer if he understands the difference. The advantage is still obviously in the PC Gamer's court, but its not as one sided as what most people think it is.

[IVIYTH0S]

You bring up a lot of really good points.

 

I think PC people turn up the graphics not only because they can but also because most of us are visual people and good graphics enhance the experience for us.

 

Any person who plays competitively though will turn down the graphics because there is always a display latency with everything turned up no matter good a PC is ...unless it is a really old game. And its not just FPS gamers, back when I played an MMO in order to maintain myself on top of the DPS parse I had to play around with settings that gave me the best visuals but didn't hold me back too much. If someone challenged me, tuning back my graphics settings gave me the edge.

 

I consider myself a PC Gamer, I started on the PC and I mostly play on the PC ...but I find the graphics on the PS3 pretty impressive actually. I don't know if it is because I have decent IPS TV, but I would stack up some of the best games on the PS3 to many PC games. Obviously the PS3 can't stand a chance against titles like BF3, Witcher 2, Metro, etc... but there are games I plug into my PS3 and say wow outloud.

 

You can load up a 2012 game on a 2006 console and it still looks great! Can a 2006 PC do the same with no upgrades?

 

 

So we pay more and get less gaming time for our money, and then we PC gamers wonder why there are so many console gamers. I will say about a year or two ago I made a concerted effort to play a FPS game with a stick. Frustrating to say the least! Though I stuck with it out of stubborness and competitiveness and I will say both sides have advantages and disadvantages. KB/M users have timing and accuracy advantage. Stick users have a movement advantage ...and a timing advantage vs 90-95% of the KB/M users when it comes to equipment use. A smart console player can go toe-2-toe with a PC gamer if he understands the difference. The advantage is still obviously in the PC Gamer's court, but its not as one sided as what most people think it is.

yeah but with console games costing what they do, it HAS to even the expense gap easy.

I payed $15 for NFS Most Wanted for PS2....$15!!, I bought GTA 4 less then a year after it came out for $7.50 and probably 80% of my PC games I've purchased for under $10

Edited August 28, 2012 by IVIYTH0S

[vandreadstriker]

I think PC people turn up the graphics not only because they can but also because most of us are visual people and good graphics enhance the experience for us.

 

I can't really argue on that. It makes sense that we bump setting to High cause, when we set it on Low, everything just pixelates and go blurry to the point where you can't even distinguish friends and foe.

But in all honesty, do you need to "MAX" out everything? Take my case as an example, I've tried playing BF3 on both High preset and Ultimate preset. As soon as I go into multiplayer, I've failed to distinguish the difference really. Only when I stop and really try to "observe" that I can find these small details (most notably, water reflections and the details of trees in Caspian Borders). But that's it. Once I start concentrating on shooting people, I once again fail to differentiate between High and Ultimate preset.

 

Having said that, I can play BF3 on High smoothly with a ~$230 (at the time of purchase) GTX460 but I'd need a ~$370 (at time of purchase) GTX570 to smoothly run it at Ultimate. I think you can now see my point...

 

I consider myself a PC Gamer, I started on the PC and I mostly play on the PC ...but I find the graphics on the PS3 pretty impressive actually. I don't know if it is because I have decent IPS TV, but I would stack up some of the best games on the PS3 to many PC games. Obviously the PS3 can't stand a chance against titles like BF3, Witcher 2, Metro, etc... but there are games I plug into my PS3 and say wow outloud.

 

Again, I'm probably on the same boat as you are. It seems that there are just some games made for PC, and some made for Console.

To me, FPS, MMO (Mostly MMORPG like Ragnarok, FFXII, etc) and Simulations game (like The Sims) are meant for PC while games like Racing, Arcades (Tekken) and RPGs are meant for consoles.

 

Why? I can't never get the hang of playing FPS on a stick. Like you've mentioned, it's just easier to shoot people with a KB/M instead of Analog stick and Xs & Os

Same goes with MMORPG. Imagine controlling your character from third person view and going into a clan war. Not 'undoable' but not as 'easy' or 'fun' as clicking with a Mouse.

Playing The Sims with a Stick? The cursor is meant for a mouse, not an analog stick. I doubt you'd be able to wake your Sim quick enough when a burglar is in your house..

 

Now on with the consoles

Racing. Try playing Gran turismo in a PC with a KB/M. You can't control your throttle and your angle of turning.

Arcades. Mashing keys on your $90 keyboard when playing Tekken? Every keys are scattered and you can't move your character if both your hands are mashing buttons for a combo.

RPGs. Whats the fun in Playing Kingdom Hearts when all you need to do is just click on an opponent and your character would attack it automatically? Probably the reason why my Seal character is stuck at lv. 132

 

You can load up a 2012 game on a 2006 console and it still looks great! Can a 2006 PC do the same with no upgrades?

 

A good point. Most of the games (or at least New Games) are at the same price of PC games after all. Then there's the option of renting them from Gamestop

 

Just My 2c

[Fogel]

yeah but with console games costing what they do, it HAS to even the expense gap easy.

I payed $15 for NFS Most Wanted for PS2....$15!!, I bought GTA 4 less then a year after it came out for $7.50 and probably 80% of my PC games I've purchased for under $10

1. 
    
   
2. If you want to be frugal, nothing beats a console. Between borrowing games from your friends or renting games (gamefly, etc.).
   
3. You can buy cheap console games, especially if they are used from people (friends, co-workers, strangers) though some retailers aren't too bad. You kinda overpaid for a PS2 game, sorry.
   
4. I'm sure 80% of that PC gaming library isn't AAA titles and weren't brand new when you bought them for under $10. Steam is awesome, no lie, and a huge selling point for the PC... but you make it sound like you can't get away with the same thing on a console. I can give you an example of how I MADE money off selling old console games (i.e. paid one price and the price I sold it for was higher than my buying price), but would it be fair for me to bring those up?
   

Keep in mind this is coming from a PC gamer who also loves to game on consoles, you cannot beat a console for cheap gaming. Exceptions aside, such someone donating a PC/Console to someone and getting the games illegally. If you factor in free and illegal games then both tie for price but PC would win overall due to the larger illegal gaming library. But I prefer to talk about this subject in the legal realm and moreso, how most PC and Console gamers play and get their games.

 

But in all honesty, do you need to "MAX" out everything? Take my case as an example, I've tried playing BF3 on both High preset and Ultimate preset. As soon as I go into multiplayer, I've failed to distinguish the difference really. Only when I stop and really try to "observe" that I can find these small details (most notably, water reflections and the details of trees in Caspian Borders). But that's it. Once I start concentrating on shooting people, I once again fail to differentiate between High and Ultimate preset.

Oh I completely agree with you I just wrote too much to say that.

 

 

Having said that, I can play BF3 on High smoothly with a ~$230 (at the time of purchase) GTX460 but I'd need a ~$370 (at time of purchase) GTX570 to smoothly run it at Ultimate. I think you can now see my point...

You must have a super card because I can't play BF3 smoothly on Ultra with a GTX 570. Smooth to me is MIN >= 60+. Max and Average are one thing but MIN is where it sucks and MIN usually happens when you need the Frames Per Second most ...i.e. intense fire fights. On High the GTX 570 averages 57 fps. The min is a lot lower.

 

 

Again, I'm probably on the same boat as you are. It seems that there are just some games made for PC, and some made for Console.

To me, FPS, MMO (Mostly MMORPG like Ragnarok, FFXII, etc) and Simulations game (like The Sims) are meant for PC while games like Racing, Arcades (Tekken) and RPGs are meant for consoles.

Completely agree.

 

I would add RTS games to the PC list and Platforming games to Console.

[Coors]

I don't know how many free games consoles have but PC has hundreds. I mean legit F2P games.

[Tjj226_Angel]

 

[*]If you want to be frugal, nothing beats a console. Between borrowing games from your friends or renting games (gamefly, etc.).

[*]You can buy cheap console games, especially if they are used from people (friends, co-workers, strangers) though some retailers aren't too bad.

 

 

 

I think this is why we are going to see PCs actually come back around. When the PS4 and the Xbox 720 (or what ever they will be called) is released, they will take away the ability to rent and barrow games. That means that a massive chunk of the frugality of the console just gets shot in the foot. And PCs will start to become the more frugal option when linux supports Steam (completely). Not to mention that with a console you are getting a console, and generally speaking you either have, or are going to buy a PC. So in essence you will have two separate units. If we pretend for a second that someone wants a ps4 and a new computer at around the same time, that person might be able to combine the two costs of the unit and simply build a nice gaming rig. So in that sense I think the frugality of building a gaming PC will really start to become less of a luxury and more of a common place thing.

[Deathmineral]

I think this is why we are going to see PCs actually come back around. When the PS4 and the Xbox 720 (or what ever they will be called) is released, they will take away the ability to rent and barrow games. That means that a massive chunk of the frugality of the console just gets shot in the foot. And PCs will start to become the more frugal option when linux supports Steam (completely). Not to mention that with a console you are getting a console, and generally speaking you either have, or are going to buy a PC. So in essence you will have two separate units. If we pretend for a second that someone wants a ps4 and a new computer at around the same time, that person might be able to combine the two costs of the unit and simply build a nice gaming rig. So in that sense I think the frugality of building a gaming PC will really start to become less of a luxury and more of a common place thing.

I agree about the used game/borrow game thing, I haven't been keeping up with the next gen consoles and their take on it but last I heard the rumor was they weren't going to allow that sort of thing. I figure, even if they allow it this time, just the fact that the rumor is out there would probably indicate they're testing the waters on this idea. There's no mistaking that developers and publishers dislike the used game/borrow game stuff, to those guys, it's no different than piracy on the PC, they believe it's taking away money they would have made otherwise. Obviously they're wrong for the most part, but good luck convincing them that.

 

I mean it's especially true for publishers though, those guys are only in it for the money, that's all they're about, I mean they purchase and hold onto copyrights to stuff they're never going to do anything with except sue people over, it's all about the money.

[vandreadstriker]

1346191808[/url]' post='2046857']

You must have a super card because I can't play BF3 smoothly on Ultra with a GTX 570. Smooth to me is MIN >= 60+. Max and Average are one thing but MIN is where it sucks and MIN usually happens when you need the Frames Per Second most ...i.e. intense fire fights. On High the GTX 570 averages 57 fps. The min is a lot lower.

My definition of smooth may be lower than yours.. If I can play one whole game without 'frequent' stuttering (only for a few split seconds, not every minute I fire), than it's smooth enough for me. If it doesn't bother me, it's playable for me.

 

1346214547[/url]' post='2046942']

I think this is why we are going to see PCs actually come back around. When the PS4 and the Xbox 720 (or what ever they will be called) is released, they will take away the ability to rent and barrow games. That means that a massive chunk of the frugality of the console just gets shot in the foot. And PCs will start to become the more frugal option when linux supports Steam (completely). Not to mention that with a console you are getting a console, and generally speaking you either have, or are going to buy a PC. So in essence you will have two separate units. If we pretend for a second that someone wants a ps4 and a new computer at around the same time, that person might be able to combine the two costs of the unit and simply build a nice gaming rig. So in that sense I think the frugality of building a gaming PC will really start to become less of a luxury and more of a common place thing.

 

With that theory, I can get a PS3 for $349 instead of $399 for a GTX670. Removing GPU from a PC, I can save on a lower PSU wattage, mATX board, a more conventional case (without many fan openings) and on a cheap Keyboard and Mouse.

 

We really don't know what would happen. I can see This matter going Three different ways. 1st. PC dominating. 2nd. Console dominating. 3rd. It all stays the same.If people get 'richer', PC might dominate. If people get 'poorer', Console might dominate. If no significant change happens with spending patterns, it might stay the same.There's just too many factors for us to "see" the future from now.

[IVIYTH0S]

1. 
    
   
2. If you want to be frugal, nothing beats a console. Between borrowing games from your friends or renting games (gamefly, etc.).
   
3. You can buy cheap console games, especially if they are used from people (friends, co-workers, strangers) though some retailers aren't too bad. You kinda overpaid for a PS2 game, sorry.
   
4. I'm sure 80% of that PC gaming library isn't AAA titles and weren't brand new when you bought them for under $10. Steam is awesome, no lie, and a huge selling point for the PC... but you make it sound like you can't get away with the same thing on a console. I can give you an example of how I MADE money off selling old console games (i.e. paid one price and the price I sold it for was higher than my buying price), but would it be fair for me to bring those up?
   

Keep in mind this is coming from a PC gamer who also loves to game on consoles, you cannot beat a console for cheap gaming. Exceptions aside, such someone donating a PC/Console to someone and getting the games illegally. If you factor in free and illegal games then both tie for price but PC would win overall due to the larger illegal gaming library. But I prefer to talk about this subject in the legal realm and moreso, how most PC and Console gamers play and get their games.

I am able to do that with PC Games too but I agree with you since it's usually a little more involved to do so.

 

Like Angel said, next gen consoles are going to try and turn that pro into a con most likely (abolishing backwards compatibility on PS3 was bad enough, so I know the PS4 is going to be . in this regard and 720 probably to)

[Fogel]

I don't know how many free games consoles have but PC has hundreds. I mean legit F2P games.

True and that is a very big pro when it comes to PCs. I really don't care about any of them, but some of those games are pretty popular amongst kids.

 

I think this is why we are going to see PCs actually come back around. When the PS4 and the Xbox 720 (or what ever they will be called) is released, they will take away the ability to rent and barrow games. That means that a massive chunk of the frugality of the console just gets shot in the foot.

 

I agree about the used game/borrow game thing, I haven't been keeping up with the next gen consoles and their take on it but last I heard the rumor was they weren't going to allow that sort of thing. I figure, even if they allow it this time, just the fact that the rumor is out there would probably indicate they're testing the waters on this idea. There's no mistaking that developers and publishers dislike the used game/borrow game stuff, to those guys, it's no different than piracy on the PC, they believe it's taking away money they would have made otherwise. Obviously they're wrong for the most part, but good luck convincing them that.

 

Like Angel said, next gen consoles are going to try and turn that pro into a con most likely (abolishing backwards compatibility on PS3 was bad enough, so I know the PS4 is going to be . in this regard and 720 probably to)

 

Oh I know and I think it is absolutely retarded. Like I said in the Next Gen Console thread if I was either in charge of the PS4 or Xbox 8 (supposedly the name they are going with since its running Win8) I would tell the competition I am phasing out the rental/used game market so they follow suit and then do the complete opposite and allow it.

 

Gaming publishers are forgetting the major draw to the console gaming market. They may create the first instance where people would rather stay on old gen then advance to the new gen. We already saw a trend of that starting to appear on the switch from PS2 to PS3, so imagine something like this... Then if they end up dorking the console market then they will have a bunch of programmers who know how to code for the console but may not know how to code for the PC. I really fail to see the business logic behind it even though I know their reasoning (which DM said). No one accuses suits of being smart though.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Fogel

[IVIYTH0S]

Aww it'd be so amazing if everyone boycotted the new systems leaving the big 3 with huge piles of excrement in their pants

[vandreadstriker]

Aww it'd be so amazing if everyone boycotted the new systems leaving the big 3 with huge piles of excrement in their pants

 

I hope not. There are still some Game Sequels I want to play