Police- Freedom vs Protection

[TheyCallMeGunny]

OP - you could have easily avoided a few of your "bad encounters" with a bit of common sense.

 

Standing still when officers are telling you to is common sense.Waco you said it yourself: You never had to deal with these type of police. You obviously live in one of the majority areas of good police: Which means you have no idea what you're talking about when you say these things could've been avoided. Simply put two words can describe how unavoidable it really was:

 

Police state. They do whatever they want, arrest and assault anyone they please. Particularly when there's no witnesses. Obviously, you've never experienced that- so I'm laughing inside at how you smugly implied it was something I did wrong

 

I've gotten in less trouble for swinging back than I have for complying. Why? Because each time this type of conflict arose: They were simply trying to fill a quota. Completely unwarranted arrests, just to add an arrest to their tally: When absolutely nothing illegal was being done. And it makes their job hard when you don't take their crap, whether by recording them or fighting them- They stop dealing with you and move on to find other "easy prey" instead.

[TheyCallMeGunny]

Neither. Reality isn't black and white.

 

I'd lean more towards the freedom side but I've never had any issues with the police, ever, really.

 

 

OP - you could have easily avoided a few of your "bad encounters" with a bit of common sense.

 

 

Let's just quote backwards to myself for this response, to dismiss the notion that I view reality in black and white:

 

Yeah, but it's easier to make a poll of the two extremes. Basically it asks only a few questions:

 

Are you content, or are you fed up? Have you ever needed police help, have you ever been refused police help?

 

Inevitably, the answers to those questions will more or less form the decision of each individual user who answers.

Edited June 11, 2012 by dragonsdontfly

[Waco]

Standing still when officers are telling you to is common sense.Waco you said it yourself: You never had to deal with these type of police. You obviously live in one of the majority areas of good police: Which means you have no idea what you're talking about when you say these things could've been avoided. Simply put two words can describe how unavoidable it really was:

 

Police state. They do whatever they want, arrest and assault anyone they please. Particularly when there's no witnesses. Obviously, you've never experienced that- so I'm laughing inside at how you smugly implied it was something I did wrong

 

I've gotten in less trouble for swinging back than I have for complying. Why? Because each time this type of conflict arose: They were simply trying to fill a quota. Completely unwarranted arrests, just to add an arrest to their tally: When absolutely nothing illegal was being done. And it makes their job hard when you don't take their crap, whether by recording them or fighting them- They stop dealing with you and move on to find other "easy prey" instead.

You pulled a cop out of his car. That alone explains my comment about "common sense".

 

It would never cross my mind to act in an offensive manner towards any police officer...especially not one that's holding a gun at me. I just don't understand the reasoning there...

[Andrewr05]

To me a job title is irrelevant, nobody on earth has any more rights than another person, baring of course legitimate criminals.

 

If you mistreat me ill be damn sure to let you know about it and if you put your hands on me or threaten to harm me or my family you can be certilain I'll be reciprocating.

 

Equality.

[TheyCallMeGunny]

You pulled a cop out of his car. That alone explains my comment about "common sense".

 

It would never cross my mind to act in an offensive manner towards any police officer...especially not one that's holding a gun at me. I just don't understand the reasoning there...

 

Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't consider this incident trouble, just drama. The reason I considered it (grabbing him) is two fold:

 

He had no reason to point a gun at us. He just pulled it out because I asked why he wanted our names. No one was armed or even giving an attitude: We were moving boxes into our new house and nothing else. We even had caution lights posted for traffic, we were 100% perfect citizens.

 

And the second is more or less where I live: a good 80% of officers out here are too aggressive like that. You learn after a few times that if you let them do this to you, it keeps happening. If you refuse to take it, they tend to leave you alone until you're actually breaking a law. You just become too much of a headache for them to harass you.

 

As for this citation: I'm actually pretty sure I'll win. I've sent out for 4 subpoenas of the 3 people who were standing beside me and the one neighbor that was on her porch. Hard to stick a harassment charge when you were unlawfully pointing a gun at someone. the fact that I handcuffed him instead of hitting him also goes a long way to getting this thrown out. The fact that they were fuzzy handcuffs that can be easily broken.. Is just embarrassing lol. So I really don't consider this to be trouble in that sense: Hence why i posted the OP so neutrally. It irritated me, but I really don't feel like this one is trouble.

 

Even if I lost: It'd cost me maybe $50 plus court costs. It's a summary offense. Had I been accused of assault, then I'd feel like this was trouble. But even the officer who wrote his own report knew that sounded a bit far-fetched. He's just trying to get even with me for hurting his pride and getting him in trouble by filing something that's hardly a legal offense at all.

 

To me a job title is irrelevant' date=' nobody on earth has any more rights than another person, baring of course legitimate criminals.

 

If you mistreat me ill be damn sure to let you know about it and if you put your hands on me or threaten to harm me or my family you can be certilain I'll be reciprocating.[/quote']

+1. Otherwise you enable them to act this way by simply letting them. No different than a school bully, it's easier to victimize the ones who just bend over and take it. Either way, the end result is never good. But fighting back in such extreme cases as this tends to be better than just letting them violate your rights and toss you away for nothing.

Edited June 11, 2012 by dragonsdontfly

[Waco]

Who said that just because you're not opposed to doing what the cops say means that you'll lay down everything and just give up to a police state?

 

 

You can bet your ass that if that happened to me I'd be at the station within an hour talking to the shift manager or whatever they're called and putting in a complaint. It doesn't take many for an officer to be put on probation.

 

 

Seriously - had you just complied - what do you really think he would have done? Arrested you for complying?

[TheyCallMeGunny]

Who said that just because you're not opposed to doing what the cops say means that you'll lay down everything and just give up to a police state?

 

 

You can bet your butt that if that happened to me I'd be at the station within an hour talking to the shift manager or whatever they're called and putting in a complaint. It doesn't take many for an officer to be put on probation.

 

I hear you, but there's one thing you oughtta consider: If he pulled a gun on us, what's to stop him from arresting us for breathing? You can stop at the station all you want, but when you're already behind bars it complicates things. Innocent or not, when you're in custody they don't listen to a word you say until you're out of custody again.

 

Anyways the station down here has 4 doors: All locked, none with a buzzer, and none in sight of the officers inside. The only way to speak to police is to go to a town hall meeting. They literally refuse to let civilians into the building by pretending they don't see you at the door.

 

I found this out when i was trying to find out the burning regulations around here. Tore up a bunch of brush and weeds and wanted to burn them. It was literally impossible to get ahold of an officer or into the station, even by phone: And it wasn't something to call 911 about.

 

Ended up getting this info from the old guy next door: Didn't know he was the ex-chief until this incident. But the point is, I was literally unable to contact any of the officers about it at all.

Edited June 11, 2012 by dragonsdontfly

[Waco]

I hear you, but there's one thing you oughtta consider: If he pulled a gun on us, what's to stop him from arresting us for breathing? You can stop at the station all you want, but when you're already behind bars it complicates things.

What's he going to arrest you for if you do what he asks? They have to have at the very least something they could attempt to back up...

 

 

Cops, in general (and in the majority of cases), won't simply arrest you for nothing. Especially when you're being respectful and following instructions.

 

 

Always question the police...just not to their face.

[TheyCallMeGunny]

What's he going to arrest you for if you do what he asks? They have to have at the very least something they could attempt to back up...

Cops, in general (and in the majority of cases), won't simply arrest you for nothing. Especially when you're being respectful and following instructions.

Always question the police...just not to their face.

 

Waco, this is Donora, PA. We have a smog museum for pollution and 3 section 8 complexes, with a 35% employment rate last year..

 

In this town, they do that a lot. Saw them arrest a neighbor at the previous plave for answering his door when they were about to break it down. Charged him with assault because he answered the door a couple seconds late right before the officer's kicked it in. Acted like he charged out to tackle them, but I witnessed it. He simply opened the door and they flattened him to the floor.

 

All over a noise compaint, and without a warrant.

 

As for having at least something: He could've claimed we were disturbing the peace because of the yellow caution lights we used to alert traffic to the truck. Or maybe loitering, as we live next door to a church.

--Resisting arrest, while never stating the reason for the initial arrest (had this happen before, charges were eventually dropped but I spent 2 weeks behind bars. Illegally just randomly tried to arrest me in Greensburg, and then charged me with resisting because I asked why I was being arrested- I didn't even physically resist on this one- Merely ASKED why I was being arrested.. Even though he had no reason listed for trying to arrest me. Sure I beat it, but I still spent half a month detained for it.) What it comes down to is you may not be convicted, but you will be arrested one way or the other if they want to. it still adds to their arrest record, regardless of conviction. And it still steals a portion of your life away.

-Edit: I lost a job over this one. Sure it was just food service at Panera Bread back then, but I lost my job over being in prison waiting on a hearing. PA is an at will state, it's perfectly legal to fire someone over anything, and being arrested is a good moral reason for an employer to fire you: Even before you're convicted.

 

I hope you're seeing how it is out here. Southwestern PA has some of the worst police I've ever had to deal with, and i personally believe it has to do with our crumbling local economy: Even Pittsburgh is a shell of it's former glory. It's sadly a very large majority across most of the townships out here. A few cities around here have a decent police force (Jeannette, Mt. Pleasant, Murrysville to name a few), but that doesn't help if you live in one of the bad ones.

Edited June 11, 2012 by dragonsdontfly

[Waco]

If it really is that bad...what's keeping you from moving?

[TheyCallMeGunny]

--What's keeping me from moving: My girlfriend. I really got lucky with her, I feel like I have a real family for the first time in my life. But she has joint custody with the father, who lives with his rich parents. Unless we get a car and are ablt to drive her daughter to school everyday- we go from every-other-week custody to every 6 months if we move outside of the school district. And I love Emily almost as much as she does, so i can't do that to them. We're living here for a couple years if things stay bad, until we can afford a car and the time to drive Emily to the same school she goes to from her dad's house. Because otherwise we have her for 6 months, and lose her for 6 months.

 

Bump for a different point: Waco, I understand what you're trying to say. I really do. But things just don't always go the way they're supposed to, especially when it's someone with power calling the shots.

 

I've lived in PA most of my life, not all but most. And it usually goes in periods of nothing happens for 2 or 3 years, then all of a sudden I move and the entire time I spend in a certain city or township there's just problems like this left and right. So far there's been 4 of those places:

 

Hostetter, Trafford, Greensburg, and here in Donora. All in Southwestern PA. I'm an Army brat by a temporary foster family and was a homeless kid on and off- So I've moved a lot.

 

I never had these problems in Pittsburgh, In South Carolina, Georgia or Oklahoma, or in Jeannette, Mt Pleasant, Murrysville, Connelsville, Latrobe, etc.

 

I must've lived 30 places in my life, and USUALLY things go the way you're saying. But some precincts just don't follow the rules, and those 4 I posted above are the ones I've seen breaking them constantly with myself and others.

 

I kinda feel like an idiot- Because this house is rent to own lol. Maybe the crap will stop, but if doesn't I hope we get our security deposit (which is more of a down payment) back. I thought it was just the one neighborhood, Christy's from this area: I'm not. But after we started moving wasn't 2 days before it started back up again.

Edited June 11, 2012 by dragonsdontfly

[Tjj226_Angel]

Freedom. Every time I have used a cop for protection, I would have been better off taking an arrow to the knee.