[Poll Closed] What Do You Believe?

[Tjj226_Angel]

Here is one for Christianity. If god is as all powerful as everyone says he is, then why is he at war with satan? Why aren't they friends? Could he not just say F YOU SATAN and make him disappear?

 

That is what I want to know.

[Waco]

Here is one for Christianity. If god is as all powerful as everyone says he is, then why is he at war with satan? Why aren't they friends? Could he not just say F YOU SATAN and make him disappear?

 

That is what I want to know.

Do you think you could stop trolling this thread? It's been civil for the most part except for when you intentionally rile people up.

 

 

 

Also, since you apparently are a "scholar" or whatever you want to call yourself, you should already know the answer to your question...hence my trolling comment.

[Fogel]

A few questions to those that are religious. Two are theoretical, the other two have happened, unfortunately.

 

What would it take to convince you to stop believing in your religion?

1. Extraterrestrials are found outside of Earth.

 

2. Time viewing (not time travel) becomes possible.

 

3. Religious Sports Legends end up losing.

 

4. Incredible slaughtering of innocent people.

Actually your first question is what would it take to stop believing in God.

A: Actual proof

 

1. 
    
   
2. I believe there is intelligent life outside of Earth so no stretch there
    
   
3. I already stated I don't believe The Bible because The Bible is written by humans and humans are wrong on a lot of things. To make matters worse, things get more mystical as stories are passed down. Even something like studying Kung Fu you hear about a lot mystical things that old masters were able to accomplish. So there are lot of things I have issue with when it comes to the history, so for me it would be more on interesting level to see what actually transpired.
    
   
4. Like I stated in my original post, I believe God created a self-sufficient world that is able to evolve on its own. I don't think God owes us anything nor should we require it of him to give us what we want/need. I do think that he (again for lack of a better pronoun) listens and sometimes helps. It is not my place to judge why he would (if he does) choose to help some and not others. After all, if God does exist, who am I to question a being that can create a universe?
    
   
5. Same as #3.
   

 

I'm not trying to step on toes here but I think when it comes to a person that already believes in something that can't be proven, it's pretty realistic to think they will make up as much stuff as they have to in order to make it work.

Sounds like stepping on toes, and honestly the same can be said about science. Like we stated a couple pages ago, there are very things in this world you can actually prove.

 

 

Albert Einstein

 

I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.

 

While I don't subscribe to Einstein's belief, I really like how he phrased human understanding of the world around them.

[SpeedCrazy]

Who said religion and science couldn't go together

Y'all do that Newton, Kelvin, Mendel, Boyle, Planck, Copernicus, Galileo and a bunch of the other big names in early science were devout Christians. Right?

It is only with in the last century or two that the rift between God and science has been created/widened(i say widened as there always have been some who attempted to divorce the two)

[El_Capitan]

Y'all do that Newton, Kelvin, Mendel, Boyle, Planck, Copernicus, Galileo and a bunch of the other big names in early science were devout Christians. Right?

It is only with in the last century or two that the rift between God and science has been created/widened(i say widened as there always have been some who attempted to divorce the two)

You also know that not to be during most of those eras, not being so would condemn them to death? Where do you think the term heretic came from?

Edited June 4, 2012 by El_Capitan

[Waco]

You also know that not to be during most of those eras, not being so would condemn them to death?

They were also very careful about what they said so they wouldn't be persecuted by the church...

[SpeedCrazy]

You also know that not to be during most of those eras, not being so would condemn them to death?

I know that but many of them surpassed the religious requirement of the day.

Easily come by examples:

Boyle: (Encyclopedia Britannica)

"By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty."

 

Planck: (Religion and Science, Lecture given by Planck in 1937)(1937. Required religion? I think not)

“Religion represents a bond of man to God. It consists in reverent awe before a supernatural Might, to which human life is subordinated and which has in its power our welfare and misery. To remain in permanent contact with this Might and keep it all the time inclined to oneself, is the unending effort and the highest goal of the believing man. Because only in such a way can one feel himself safe before expected and unexpected dangers, which threaten one in his life, and can take part in the highest happiness – inner psychical peace – which can be attained only by means of strong bond to God and unconditional trust to His omnipotence and willingness to help.”(plenty of proof of real faith for him)

 

Mendel: He was a monk, need i say more. Joining a monastery was not required, it was a choice.

 

Newton: While he was in no way an 'orthodox' Christian it is worth noting that he wrote more books on Christianity than Science.

Quote from an unamed lecture: "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."

 

Gallileo: You may be right i have heard no conclusive proof ethier way and the fact that he defied the church in favor of his science may not be in his favor. I don't know enough about him to give an opinion.

 

 

EDIT: Grammar

Edited June 4, 2012 by SpeedCrazy

[Onion]

Newton: While he was in no way an 'orthodox' Christian it is worth noting that he wrote more books on Christianity than Science.

Quote from an unamed lecture: "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."

 

As they say in high school... Quality, not quantity.

[El_Capitan]

I know that but many of them surpassed the religious requirement of the day.

Easily come by examples:

Boyle: (Encyclopedia Britannica)

"By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty."

 

Planck: (Religion and Science, Lecture given by Planck in 1937)(1937. Required religion? I think not)

“Religion represents a bond of man to God. It consists in reverent awe before a supernatural Might, to which human life is subordinated and which has in its power our welfare and misery. To remain in permanent contact with this Might and keep it all the time inclined to oneself, is the unending effort and the highest goal of the believing man. Because only in such a way can one feel himself safe before expected and unexpected dangers, which threaten one in his life, and can take part in the highest happiness – inner psychical peace – which can be attained only by means of strong bond to God and unconditional trust to His omnipotence and willingness to help.”(plenty of proof of real faith for him)

 

Mendel: He was a monk, need i say more. Joining a monastery was not required, it was a choice.

 

Newton: While he was in no way an 'orthodox' Christian it is worth noting that he wrote more books on Christianity than Science.

Quote from an unamed lecture: "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."

 

Gallileo: You may be right i have heard no conclusive proof ethier way and the fact that he defied the church in favor of his science may not be in his favor. I don't know enough about him to give an opinion.

 

 

EDIT: Grammar

Well, what are you going to do, give sermons against the church and make it your last words? Imagine giving sermons in Nazi Germany about not being the superior race and Jews being equal amongst them. You wouldn't be alive very long.

[Nyt]

Well, what are you going to do, give sermons against the church and make it your last words? Imagine giving sermons in Nazi Germany about not being the superior race and Jews being equal amongst them. You wouldn't be alive very long.

 

Why give sermons at all ? It was not a rule that you had to give sermons, you could've kept quiet and not be punished at all ... If they gave sermons it would've been because they wanted to, not because they were forced to.

[El_Capitan]

Why give sermons at all ? It was not a rule that you had to give sermons, you could've kept quiet and not be punished at all ... If they gave sermons it would've been because they wanted to, not because they were forced to.

I can't speak for history, but here are some reasons aside from that maybe they really were giving sermons for what they really believed:

1. In order to continue with their scientific endeavors, they had to do so for the sake of their religious order, and not to be scientific for the benefit of science.

2. If you wanted to make it to the top in your field (everything's political), you can't just study science, but give lectures and sermons to get there. Aside from being rich, the next best thing to do is support your claims for your religious order. Religion has always been a powerful force throughout history. The Catholic Church probably being the most influential. If you're going to be known as THE top scientist, you'll want someone like The Pope on your side.

3. Being a monk or something similar, people don't pry into your work (they're expecting that you're praying all day).

 

Look at it this way. To be the President of the United States today, you have to be religious. You won't get the votes if you're not Christian. Definitely not if you're Muslim. Even John F. Kennedy had a hard time since he was a Catholic, as people didn't want him being influenced by The Pope. If I was going to run for The President of the United States, I'd say I was a devout Christian. I'd be lying, but if I didn't, I'd never get elected (not that I'd want to run for President, but if I wanted to win, I know what I'd have to do).

 

Also, look at the U.S. Political responses to climate change. The Democrats will side with the scientists, while the Republicans say it's just the natural order of the Earth's climate (but won't say that all the scientists that say Climate Change, or Global Warming, exists are wrong).

Edited June 5, 2012 by El_Capitan

[wevsspot]

I believe that many devout Christians encourage the sciences to unravel and explain the mysteries of our universe. If you believe (as I do) that God created all things then I accept that God created the sciences and the magnificent human brain so inclined to explore, explain, investigate, hypothesize, test, prove, retest etc.

 

God creating the universe is no more far fetched than any other theory that explains the Genesis of creation IMHO. I believe that the universe was created, exists and expands with some sort of order and purpose. That somehow, somewhere there was a beginning to everything, and for every beginning there must eventually be an end - because that is the natural order of things. I choose to believe that God was the force that set everything in motion. Again, I don't discount or discredit the findings and fact of science. I just believe that God is literally as described... the beginning and the end.

 

Further soul searching and ponderings;

 

For non-believers; are you afraid of death or have you ever been in a situation where you were so frightened of harm or death that you felt helpless or hopeless? Or maybe you suffered through a similar experience with a loved on or close friend going through something similar. If so how did you deal with that? How do you feel when they lay someone you really really loved to rest in the ground. How do you reconcile that or give yourself hope that mortal life is worth living.

 

What's it like believing that man is unto himself a "God" or that there isn't any God at all. How do you deal with the minuscule scale of our lives if it only consists of birth, life, self gratification (happiness) and death?

 

What do I gain by sharing my faith with you? It doesn't get me to heaven. I'm not on a commission. In fact, it's harder to share my faith with you than it is to just be quiet and hope the best for you. And if it's still hard in modern day, how hard was it back when publicly doing so might result in my own incarceration or even sacrificing my life because I chose to share my faith with you. And while I refer to that ultimate sacrifice in past tense - in many countries today people are still put to death for their religious beliefs.

 

It didn't cost me anything to become a Christian, and I don't sacrifice anything to be one. Sure there are things that my bible admonishes me against doing - but anyone with common sense can see that those admonishments make sense for every single human, and not just for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhist, Agnostics, Atheists etc. And before you throw up some of the Old Testament Do's and Don'ts keep in mind that I'm talking about the New Testament (which is the true gospel).

 

So what happens to me when they put my body in the ground? Well, if there is a God, and Jesus was who he said he was, then I'm secure that my soul will exist in a peaceful eternity. And if there isn't a God, my fate will be the same as an atheist or agnostic. My existence will expire and my body will rot in the ground just like everyone else's. So I lose nothing by being a born again Christian, but I do avoid the risk of permanent separation from my creator.