[Poll Closed] What Do You Believe?

[Onion]

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Edited May 31, 2012 by Onion

[Andrewr05]

I've never actually opened a bible and read any of it.

Also I've only been in a church 3 times, once was a funeral, and I think the other two were weddings when I was really young.

 

 

Except to say god damn 'something something' I don't believe I have EVER heard my parents say the word god.

 

[SpeedCrazy]

To reply in general to comments i remember(this thread is too long).

 

To the comment what if it was proven that God did not exist:

I can't remember who i am quoting, probably Billy Graham, but he said "If it was came to my last day and i discovered that God did not exist i will still have be a better man for believing in him." Can't remember the exact quote.

 

And as to science.

All i'm going to say on evolution is that the extrapolation has been taken too far. I once heard an argument for intelligent design that really clicked with me, "If you found a watch on the ground, a real clockwork one, with all its tiny gears and springs, what would you assume about its existence? That it had just suddenly appeared, fully functional and intricately geared, or; that a watchmaker had carefully assembled and fine tuned it. The answer is obviously the latter choice. We all know that watches don't just appear. So why do we believe that this world, so much more an intricate and beautiful piece of work than the watch, just appeared from nothing?"

 

And in fun NOTE: this is not my reasoning behind my faith.

Pascals Wager:

"If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing--but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist."

[El_Capitan]

To reply in general to comments i remember(this thread is too long).

 

To the comment what if it was proven that God did not exist:

I can't remember who i am quoting, probably Billy Graham, but he said "If it was came to my last day and i discovered that God did not exist i will still have be a better man for believing in him." Can't remember the exact quote.

 

And as to science.

All i'm going to say on evolution is that the extrapolation has been taken too far. I once heard an argument for intelligent design that really clicked with me, "If you found a watch on the ground, a real clockwork one, with all its tiny gears and springs, what would you assume about its existence? That it had just suddenly appeared, fully functional and intricately geared, or; that a watchmaker had carefully assembled and fine tuned it. The answer is obviously the latter choice. We all know that watches don't just appear. So why do we believe that this world, so much more an intricate and beautiful piece of work than the watch, just appeared from nothing?"

 

And in fun NOTE: this is not my reasoning behind my faith.

Pascals Wager:

"If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing--but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist."

Well, if you blindly follow something for your entire life without living your life the way you would otherwise, that's one lifetime lost. If there is no Heaven and Hell, and you only get one life, it would be foolish to waste it. We know that life exists because we're currently living. We know nothing about the afterlife. Therefore, it is foolish to believe in something you have no idea of being true.

 

As for there being intelligent design about clockwork, there have been many iterations of clockwork design. It's been perfected through countless centuries, and many different designs. To say that the Universe was created with each fabric being intricately designed to be what it is right now should lead us to ask, what type of Universe are we? A Rolex? A Casio? Are we to say that God formulates the design of each snowflake, or is it the randomness of molecular structure that forms from physics? Yeah, we can think that God designed Physics of the Universe, but the underlying fact is this: there's no evidence to prove any of it.

 

Science is based on evidence. When you overclock to find stability, you're using scientific methods. You don't just overclock to 4.0GHz by randomly changing multiple settings and believe that the overclock is stable, do you? That applies for the search for God or the Creator of the Universe, or what have you.

[IVIYTH0S]

Well, if you blindly follow something for your entire life without living your life the way you would otherwise, that's one lifetime lost. If there is no Heaven and Hell, and you only get one life, it would be foolish to waste it. We know that life exists because we're currently living. We know nothing about the afterlife. Therefore, it is foolish to believe in something you have no idea of being true.

 

As for there being intelligent design about clockwork, there have been many iterations of clockwork design. It's been perfected through countless centuries, and many different designs. To say that the Universe was created with each fabric being intricately designed to be what it is right now should lead us to ask, what type of Universe are we? A Rolex? A Casio? Are we to say that God formulates the design of each snowflake, or is it the randomness of molecular structure that forms from physics? Yeah, we can think that God designed Physics of the Universe, but the underlying fact is this: there's no evidence to prove any of it.

 

Science is based on evidence. When you overclock to find stability, you're using scientific methods. You don't just overclock to 4.0GHz by randomly changing multiple settings and believe that the overclock is stable, do you? That applies for the search for God or the Creator of the Universe, or what have you.

Awesome points and also....yes that is the method I used to overclock my Q9450 to 4.0ghz and it worked non believer

[Deathmineral]

And as to science.

All i'm going to say on evolution is that the extrapolation has been taken too far. I once heard an argument for intelligent design that really clicked with me, "If you found a watch on the ground, a real clockwork one, with all its tiny gears and springs, what would you assume about its existence? That it had just suddenly appeared, fully functional and intricately geared, or; that a watchmaker had carefully assembled and fine tuned it. The answer is obviously the latter choice. We all know that watches don't just appear. So why do we believe that this world, so much more an intricate and beautiful piece of work than the watch, just appeared from nothing?"

So doesn't that mean that Minecraft is better than God? Minecraft not only makes complex worlds but does so in mere seconds (depending on the computer I suppose) and can make thousands of them, each and every one of them being unique.

[Prunes]

I've recently read, in danish unfortunately, about the advances being done in neuroscience. A growing group of scientists, also in America, is actually finding evidence that religion is something about brain "makes up". Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to deemphasize religion or anything. But thinks like "visions" and similar experiences can now be triggered by human technology. Visions that various prophets in all religions have had. Also the brain likes to believe in religion, since science can sometimes be too abstract for the brain to comprehend. We have, according to evolution, only been conscience the past 70.000 years I think it is. And back then we weren't even very conscience. I'm an atheist, but I too have a hard time believing most of physics and other areas of science, simply due to it being so complex. I don't think anyone can actually get a hold of the idea that the universe is infinite, yet expanding. Because it must be expanding in something right? It can't just expand into nothingness.

 

I'm open to peoples ideas and beliefs as long as they don't try to convert me. I will convert, if they can convince me that it's the right way of life etc. But that haven't happened yet.

 

EDIT: I can try to find the experiments and reports that the scientists mentioned above have performed. Some of them was published in Nature I believe.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Ecofriendly

[bp9801]

I've stayed out of this as much as possible, but it is interesting reading everyone's views on religion. Like some have said, it is nice seeing everything be as civil as possible, which is always a welcome change in topics like this.

 

I was raised Methodist and my parents still go to church from time to time. Maybe once every few months or so, plus always for Easter and Christmas Eve. As for me, well, I don't much care for religion. It has no basis in my life and hasn't for some time. I stopped going to church on a consistent basis when I was maybe 10 years old. I still went for Christmas Eve service because it was a tradition, but other than that no. I just didn't see a point in waking up early every Sunday morning to hear some guy talk about stuff I didn't care about.

 

When I was a senior in high school (17 years old), I did a research paper on minority religions, i.e. cults. The paper had to be between 5 and 7 pages, but I had so much research I ended up going on for 16 pages. Spent half the year on it and seeing so much information on a variety of different religious views made me realize that no single religion was actually correct.

 

That was one of the periods. There was another where everyone was practically atheists. Greece has a very......complicated past. They changed like every 100 years because of wars among other issues. It took me forever to understand it all so I understand the confusion.

 

The other part of it though is that the Olympian gods are not gods like what we have. Gods at that point in time were a replacement for science. It was not for spiritual guidance like it is today. If you have any doubts, google zeus and adultery.

 

I want to see where you have this information that the ancient Greeks changed their religious views "every 100 years" and that one period "everyone was practically atheists." Same with the Greek gods and goddesses being "a replacement for science."

[Waco]

This should be good.

[Prunes]

This should be good.

[wevsspot]

Except to say g&* da%$ 'something something' I don't believe I have EVER heard my parents say the word god.

Really Andrew. Really? We made it eleven pages without profanity and then from the person I least expected it.......................

 

I'm a born again Christian because I choose to be. No one forced me to believe in God, or to believe that Jesus Christ was God's true son, that he was born as a natural person, and was subsequently crucified on the cross as penance for anyone that would freely accept his salvation and believe in him. I believe in the power of science to prove and disprove things. I believe in the power of science to make life better for mankind. I believe that humans aren't the sole inhabitants of our universe or the others out there. I've committed lots of sin in my life. Read the ten commandments and I've broken most of them (except murder) on more than one occasion in my life. I believe that I'm no different, better or worse than the person next to me.... I don't claim to be perfect, only forgiven. My faith has taken an interesting journey. I was a very spiritual kid from an early age. Then I spent 25 years being educated and competing in the business world sans any spirituality whatever (except when me and my buddies went on a drinking binge and decided to discuss philosophy). I went through a period of using drugs and abusing alcohol. And, for all intents and purposes was an alcoholic from my mid 30s to the age of 46 and still managed to be an extremely successful professional. The only thing that saved me from an alcoholic's early death and divorce from my wife of 23 years was turning my life back over to God. I don't receive any reward for sharing my faith with anyone, here or elsewhere - but I do get the satisfaction of knowing that maybe I had a positive impact on at least one person's life by sharing the gospel with them.

 

Talking just about addiction - I've personally witnessed (and personally experienced) people recover from drug abuse and alcoholism, when all science, psychological and medical intervention failed, by accepting that there is a higher authority in their lives. Now we can easily claim that these people were weak to begin with or they wouldn't have been addicted, that may be true but who am I to judge.

 

I've personally witnessed what I consider to be miracles six times in my life. When there was no logical reason or scientific or medical justification for the outcome as it were. I can only testify that what I witnessed I now believe were true miracles, not natural events, but supernatural events. My heart breaks for those that can't find any purpose in life beyond themselves. My heart breaks for those that don't believe in the spirit or soul of mankind. The simple "I'm born, I live, I die" viewpoint seems so fatalistic to me.

 

I'll even give a nod to evolution, because no where in my bible does it say that evolution did or didn't occur. My bible gives a different account of the genesis of mankind, but it's ok if you believe differently. The key to finding a truly rewarding spiritual existence in life is dumping ALL religious dogma and pursuing a relationship with our creator one way or another.

 

I'll repeat what I said in an much earlier post;

Science and Faith can co-exist. They speak to different parts of humanity and one doesn't have to be exclusive of the other.

 

God did not create the Lexus, MRIs, CAT scans, the internal combustion engine, airplanes, spacecraft, computers or the cheeseburger, but I believe that he created mankind and blessed us with a wonderful mind to dream, envision, plan, design and create those things ourselves. He even gave us the inalienable right to choose, to believe as we will or wont, to learn, form our own opinions and judgments. Being saved doesn't mean you quit living, quit enjoying your life or live only for rewards in the afterlife. Believing in something greater than yourself, or humanity in general just feeds a different part of the human experience.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2012 by wevsspot

[Waco]

I don't think he intended to offend anyone with that one, he was just making an example.

 

Although, on that same note, I've definitely heard that uttered, yelled, and screamed during various projects with my dad. For some reason it makes things hurt less when you shout profanity at the top of your lungs.