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tkrow21

Crossfire Question

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*Edit* My original post was more of me complaining rather than asking the question, so here's a better phrased version:

 

I'm running Crossfire, and without enabling V-Sync, I don't get smooth video until I hit 120 FPS (whereas with a single video card, 60 FPS = smooth video). It's a frustrating problem since running one video card as apposed to Crossfire comes out to a similar performance, even though I get many more frames with two. The only way to get around this is by using V-Sync (then Crossfire works great). Any idea how to fix this?

Edited by tkrow21

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Enable V-Sync.

 

Anyway, if you have a 60 Hz screen (a normal screen, not for 3D vision), your screen won't be able to show more than 60 images each second (60 fps), therefore, even if fraps or any other software shows you "120 fps", with a 60 Hz screen, you won't go further than 60 fps in terms of real framerate..

 

If you enable V-Sync, it'll synchronize your framerate with your screen, if you have a 60 Hz, you won't exceed 60 fps, if you've got a 120 Hz one (for 3D vision), you won't exceed 120 fps.

 

It should solve your issue.

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V-sync and if you are lucky and your lowest frame rates without v-sync are over 60fps then you will have the smoothest video possible a constant 60fps no dips and no spikes.

 

I have v-sync enabled in every game with the exception being when I first get a game and am benching for myself for optimal settings.

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Alright, I would use V-Sync, but I'm playing FPS's and RTS's. I can't really deal with the mouse lag I get, and from what I've found online, a lot of people have problems with input lag and V-Sync. Does anyone have any ideas on how to eliminate it?

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Alright, I would use V-Sync, but I'm playing FPS's and RTS's. I can't really deal with the mouse lag I get, and from what I've found online, a lot of people have problems with input lag and V-Sync. Does anyone have any ideas on how to eliminate it?

To be honest I have never ever experienced input lag while playing games with v-sync. Offline or online and that's being in aus too where you can get some fair horrible pings due to being on a different continent to the servers being used.

 

Edit: oh just make sure you tick triple buffering too

Edited by Stonerboy779

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Enable v-sync.

 

as others have said, you arent seeing anymore anyway.

 

V-sync does not cause input lag. People need to cop-on and stop being such panzies. "I get less than 300 x10e90 FPS on my 60Hz screen, thats why I lost!" <- Its got sweet F all to do with input lag or FPS. If anything its just regular "lag".

 

How people have crowbared into there mind that v-sync has anything to do with it is beyond me.... well, I guess they look @ FRAPS and goes "on noes! less than 300FPS, that must be why I am loosing"

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Vsync does add a few frames of input lag...but unless the game implementation is broken it should be unnoticeable.

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Vsync does add a few frames of input lag...but unless the game implementation is broken it should be unnoticeable.

 

Hey, thanks. Yeah, I noticed that I could barely feel it in Left 4 Dead or CS:S, but it's a lot more noticeable in Portal 2 and Battlefield 3 (I'm confused at this part, as Portal 2 and the other games are all on the same engine. Perhaps it's just the newer build I'm having issues with).

 

Enable v-sync.

 

as others have said, you arent seeing anymore anyway.

 

V-sync does not cause input lag. People need to cop-on and stop being such panzies. "I get less than 300 x10e90 FPS on my 60Hz screen, thats why I lost!" <- Its got sweet F all to do with input lag or FPS. If anything its just regular "lag".

 

How people have crowbared into there mind that v-sync has anything to do with it is beyond me.... well, I guess they look @ FRAPS and goes "on noes! less than 300FPS, that must be why I am loosing"

 

Umm, there are so many things wrong here:

 

as others have said, you arent seeing anymore anyway.

 

I know. I have a 60HZ monitor, and seeing better performance between 60 FPS and more than 60FPS would be absolutely impossible. However, that's the exact issue that I brought up. Even though I have around ~90 FPS with Crossfire, it seems as if frames are being skipped (or something else is happening) which produces an image that's not smooth at all. There's a clear difference between having V-Sync enabled and disabled when I'm in Crossfire mode.

 

V-sync does not cause input lag.

 

Okay, well, if it doesn't can you please help me, as I'm clearly getting input lag on my end when I've got V-sync enabled? If it isn't supposed to introduce input lag, do you know how I could go about troubleshooting my situation?

 

If anything its just regular "lag".

 

It can't be regular lag, because the connection from my mouse to the computer, and the computer to my monitor isn't influenced (at least in any way that I know) by the network. The game client doesn't require an immediate response from the server for you to change your direction on the screen (talking in an FPS perspective here). If it doesn't get a response for a while, you might get locked up and disconnected from the game. What you're thinking of is OnLive, where your inputs have to be sent out and processed before they are sent back to you by the server the game is being played on.

 

well, I guess they look @ FRAPS and goes "on noes! less than 300FPS, that must be why I am loosing"

 

That's preposterous. Only certain games benefit from having over 60 FPS. For example, Counter-Strike 1.6 sent an update (player position, etc.) to the server for every frame your computer processed, up to 100 FPS. Still, 300 FPS is a ridiculous number to pull out of your butt (sorry, OCC censored the appropriate word). The point is that I don't really care what my FPS is as long as I'm getting a smooth image. I know that normally, getting 60FPS or higher will result in the same smooth image. However, in this case, with Crossfire, I'm not getting that, and I'm left to wonder why it comes out like this without V-Sync, and if there's any way to fix it without getting the input lag associated with V-Sync.

 

If you're suggesting that V-Sync doesn't cause a noticeable amount of input lag, then that's absolutely great! However, on my PC it is, and I'd like to know if there's anything I can to to fix this problem.

 

P.S. As has been suggested, I've turned on triple buffering under the OpenGL settings for my drivers. However, it didn't really change anything, and I read that it's more to eliminate performance issues that people run into when they get under 60 FPS whilst enabling V-Sync. However, that's not my issue.

 

Also sorry if I come across as being pissy when writing this. It's just that I'd like some help here, and you're coming here and saying that I don't have an issue when I clearly do, and then you go on to provide a stupid and unrelated explanation (oh noes < 300 FPS). I just want some help. :(

 

Edit: I found this resource.

 

Display Lag

 

VSync adds display lag, also referred to as input lag.

Display lag is undesirable because it can make control input feel sluggish.

With a higher framerate, Triple Buffered VSync will cause less display lag, and it may not be noticeable at all.

Triple Buffered VSync will introduce a minimum of one frame of display lag and a maximum of two frames. One frame at 60 FPS is approximately 16.7 milliseconds.

 

Micro Stuttering

 

Despite the name, micro stuttering is not perceived as actual 'stuttering'. Instead, it is simply the feeling that a game is running at a lower framerate than what is displayed by utilities such as FRAPS.

Micro stuttering is defined by variations in frametime, which is the amount of time (in milliseconds) it takes the graphics card(s) to render any particular frame.

Micro stuttering is almost always discussed in connection with multiple GPU setups, but it also occurs with single GPUs, just to a much lesser extent. It is impossible for even a single GPU to render every frame in the exact same amount of time.

The effect typically cannot be perceived if using a single GPU and running a game at playable framerates (30 FPS or higher).

There are some games that are notorious for having micro stuttering problems, even with a single GPU. A few examples are: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Far Cry 2, ET: Quake Wars.

Multi-GPU setups that are GPU bottlenecked (at least one GPU at 100% load while gaming) will suffer from more severe micro stuttering than those that are CPU bottlenecked. It is for this reason that the use of less powerful midrange GPUs in Crossfire is not recommended.

Quadfire (4 GPU) and Trifire (3 GPU) setups are slightly less prone to the effect than Crossfire (2 GPU) setups.

Even with high end GPUs, dedicating GPU resources to intensive tasks such as PhysX, tesselation, depth of field or advanced antialiasing techniques can cause an unwanted increase in frametime variance.

Upgrading hardware or lowering settings in order to run a game at a higher framerate can reduce frametime variance as well as making it more difficult to perceive.

If your framerate is higher than your monitor's refresh rate, the best solution for Direct3D games is to enable VSync and Triple Buffering. This forces rendered frames that are sent to the monitor to be timed as evenly as possible.

 

It sounds like I'm getting microstuttering, and the only way to fix it is with V-Sync. However, I don't see how that'd be possible, with up to 34ms of display lag caused by Vsync. If people can see the difference between a 5ms response time and 8ms response time on a monitor, don't you think adding 34ms is a bit ridiculous, and certainly noticeable?

 

Well crap, it seems like I can't really fix my issue without making some sort of sacrifice. :/

 

I'm never getting Crossfire again, lol.

Edited by tkrow21

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P.S. As has been suggested, I've turned on triple buffering under the OpenGL settings for my drivers. However, it didn't really change anything, and I read that it's more to eliminate performance issues that people run into when they get under 60 FPS whilst enabling V-Sync. However, that's not my issue.

won't do a damn thing unless the game uses OpenGL as the backend.

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It sounds like I'm getting microstuttering, and the only way to fix it is with V-Sync. However, I don't see how that'd be possible, with up to 34ms of display lag caused by Vsync. If people can see the difference between a 5ms response time and 8ms response time on a monitor, don't you think adding 34ms is a bit ridiculous, and certainly noticeable?

That's because of display lag (ghosting) not because of the actual input lag on the monitor.

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That's because of display lag (ghosting) not because of the actual input lag on the monitor.

 

Would this be input lag?

 

 

Even the difference between 10ms and 1ms is noticeable.

 

edit: 1:20

Edited by tkrow21

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