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Silas13013

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It's interesting how nobody here seems to come to a conclusion. I wonder, will any of you have actually learned anything by the time this thread dies?

 

it will never die, Tjj is too stubborn to let someone get the final word in, and someone will always post arguing with him

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I missed this topic 24 pages in just a couple of days.

 

I will enjoy reading through this on a boring Sunday afternoon.

 

Oh trust me, it is rather amusing

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It's interesting how nobody here seems to come to a conclusion. I wonder, will any of you have actually learned anything by the time this thread dies?

I've come to a conclusion, this angel person is mentally disturbed.

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Breaking the laptop was wrong. Period. There are plenty of people who could have used that laptop. Maybe the library could have used it for something. Should he have taken it away? Sure. But don't be a child yourself and bust it up.

+1

but he had hat banjo and gun in hand so what was billybob ta do

he just had to shoot something to make his point

im a father of three and i would never show my kids that the only way to make a point was to destroy someone property what a child

Edited by jdm_freek

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Hell to the no. They aren't getting internet for a damn month. I prefer psychological discipline rather than physical ( I can't be there to spank them every moment of the day' date=' but I sure as hell can stop them from doing what they love). From what I've seen it works better, I think I'm living proof of that. [/quote']

 

I agree 100% there, but I'd like to add something: it works better for some children. For my sister, two brothers, and myself, physical discipline was the only way we learned most of the time. My mother tried as much as she could to avoid spankings, and once in a great while, it worked. Spankings were a last resort, but most of the time, that's what it came down to. That's how we learned best, each of us to a different degree of both physical and psychological discipline. No one single strategy worked for us all. I've seen far too many kids who were never disciplined that have no respect or selflessness.

 

My half sister on the other hand has never been spanked in her life. She has a very mild and sociable temperament, and the most my mother and step-dad have to do is threaten a grounding if she misbehaves. My cousin was an only child, never spanked, and spoiled rotten growing up. He's the most respectful, thankful guy I've ever seen.

 

I use psychological discipline all the time at my workplace as much as I can when rights restrictions are in place, as I can not and will not ever use physical discipline. One client grabbed my coworker's butt while we were shopping in Walmart. His favorite thing is going to the library, and he lost that for two weeks as a result. He never did it again. On the flipside, another client loves playing his Wii and PS3, but he's a compulsive thief. If he's caught stealing, he loses his consoles for at least a week, as those mean more than anything to him. Guess what? He has never learned a lesson from that. As far as he's concerned, he didn't do anything wrong, and all he cares about is getting his consoles back. For bigger incidents, he loses his privilege of participating in Special Olympics events, another huge thing for him. And no matter how many times those are pulled, he never learns.

 

They're not physically kids, but they're close to it mentally. Each and every one of them is unique in how they learn and how they're disciplined. Our goal with all of them is to help them become as independent as possible, and part of that is establishing that there are consequences for their actions. And like kids, their rights can be legally restricted for their own good. All of my clients are unique, and no single method works for all of them. Yes, childrens' development is largely influenced by nurture, but nature plays a strong role too.

 

I'll add to the comment about non-parents not knowing about how to be a parent. I've worked with the mentally challenged for two years now, and when out in public, some people tell me how to do my job. The closest anyone's come to being qualified to be telling me what to do is a relative of someone with Down Syndrome. I've heard it all: "They don't know any better, why are you so worked up over it?" "You don't need to be so loud with them!" (one of the clients is hearing impaired) "You should let him have another cookie," and my personal favorite: "My aunt's friends boyfriend's ex-girlfriend has a son who's in special ed, so I know what it's like." Until you've worked with my clients in my position, you're not qualified to tell me how to do my job. I've had a psychiatrist tell me how I should be handling aggressive behaviors right before one actually occurred. He hid behind his desk and yelled "Get him out of here! Get him out!" Everything he said went out the window.

 

Just as it applies to every job, you have no room to talk until you've done it yourself.

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I've come to a conclusion, this angel person is mentally disturbed.

 

I don't think he is mentally disturbed I just think he has some strong feelings about this particular subject.

 

 

Anyways I haven't read through all 24 pages of this topic so I apologize if I missed something.

 

In my opinion I don't think what the dad did is wrong but from a legal prospective and a PR prospective there are some issues that come up.

 

First from a legal prospective making the video and then posting on the internet wasn't a good idea you can bet that DCF and maybe the police for that matter are probably going to be looking into this and investigating this which is going to cause a big headache for everyone.

 

Also I believe I read some ware that he was or is getting divorced and this video is going to serve as some great evidence for the wife to use against him to deny custody of his children and possibility make it easier for the wife to prove he is a unfit father so she can get bigger alimony payments and other things.

 

From a PR prospective I don't think this was a good idea either I mean know hes probably going to have people coming up to him telling him that hes a bad father or if he has to apply for a job he's probably going to have to explain why he made the video.

 

I think it's important to point out if it hasn't been done already that there is no one good punishment like spankings or grounding when it comes to trying to correct bad behavior. Some times it doesn't matter how many times the child is spanked or grounded there still not going learn from there mistakes and other

 

methods like diplomacy and reasoning must be used.

 

I'm personally not a big supporter of spanking children. The problem I have with spanking is there isn't always a clear line for some people between a spanking and an abusive punishment like a beating. There's also the legal issues involved it doesn't matter how much the child deserved it or how fair of a parent you are

 

all they have to do is go to school and say my parent's hit me and that's enough for them to call DCF or the police and get you arrested and loose custody of your children.

Edited by fire_storm

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I can't really read a sentence without any punctuation because it just keeps on going and going and never stops even though you're making good points not being able to read them properly makes it very difficult to discuss those points that you're making you know it's just kind of hard to keep on going and going without a break at all it's like nascar but a bit more intelligence and I think you're capable of using punctuation here and there as i do enjoy reading your points but like I said it just keeps on getting difficult and makes it hard to understand when there nothing separating clauses and whatnot

 

EDIT: Good points, but come on, at least a period or two?

Edited by Kamikaze_Badger

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I can't really read a sentence without any punctuation because it just keeps on going and going and never stops even though you're making good points not being able to read them properly makes it very difficult to discuss those points that you're making you know it's just kind of hard to keep on going and going without a break at all it's like nascar but a bit more intelligence and I think you're capable of using punctuation here and there as i do enjoy reading your points but like I said it just keeps on getting difficult and makes it hard to understand when there nothing separating clauses and whatnot

 

EDIT: Good points, but come on, at least a period or two?

 

:lol: Good point. But I think you forgot a few punctuation marks. ;):rofl:

PS: Just in case some one isn't able to read between the lines, I know that Kamikaze did that on purpose with his response in order to poke fun of those who did not use punctuation marks.

 

And btw, I do not agree that statement about Angel being disturbed. We shouldn't resort to labeling people who disagrees with us with such words, he hasn't fully grasped the perspective that of a parent's--that is all.

Edited by PremiumAcc

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Looks like shes doing fine. So much for the whole abuse/slave labor theory.

 

 

 

Attention Media Outlets

While we appreciate the interest you're all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we're not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.

 

Some of you think I made an acceptable parenting decision and others think I didn't. However, I can't think of any way myself or my daughter can ...respond to a media outlet that won't be twisted out of context. The Dallas news TV news already showed that in their brief 5 minute interview with the psychologist.

 

Additionally, there's absolutely NO way I'm going to send my child the message that it's OK to gain from something like this. It would send her a message that it's OK to profit at the expense of someone else's embarrassment or misfortune and that's now how I was raised, nor how she has been raised.

 

 

So I say thank you from all of us. If we have anything to say, we'll say it here on Facebook, and we'll say it publicly, but we won't say it to a microphone or a camera. There are too many other REAL issues out there that could use this attention you're giving us. My daughter isn't hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged, but that kind of publicity has never seemed to be to have a positive effect on any child or family.

 

If you're a news outlet that wants to ask us a question, feel free to so via email. I'm sure by now my email address is easy enough to find. It might take me awhile to get to a response because I'd have to sort through the "Die you bastard" emails to find it, but we will respond if its something that we feel merits it. Otherwise, sorry... no interviews, no talk shows, no call-ins.

 

If we respond to anything, it will be on here, and it will be in a way that our words can't be misconstrued or edited for appeal to specific audience or shock value.

 

Now, I'm going to try to get to work for the day.

Best of luck to all of you out there... and PLEASE give my phone a break.

 

HOW HANNAH GOT CAUGHT

 

HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really.

 

I finally came out and told her this today, partly because it was too funny NOT to share.

 

When my daughter made her post, she used Facebook's privacy settings to block "Family" and "Church" friend's lists. All her other friends could see it. We, of course could not.

 

One of our dogs is always getting in photos and therefore has her own Facebook pa...ge. It's just a cute dumb thing we did for fun. Well, the dog's profile is rarely used except when funny pictures of her are posted. Since that's not too often, and she has very few friends on Facebook, her wall is kind of bare, with relatively few posts showing up on it.

 

The other night we gave the dog a bath and there was a funny photo we uploaded to Facebook and tagged her in. I logged in as the dog the next morning to comment on the photo. However when I logged into the dog's profile, my daughter had forgotten to add her to the "family" list.... so our family dog's profile showed her post right there on the front page.

 

It wasn't any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident. She hasn't petted that dog all day today...

 

HANNAH'S REACTION

 

For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:

My daughter came through it fine.

 

Yes, she's in trouble, and yes she's grounded, but that doesn't mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She's going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.

 

In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,... she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I’d do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, “in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I’ll go half-sies with ya on it! It’s not like I’m going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one.”

 

While the whole point of this story isn’t funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasn’t let it (or people’s comments) destroy her strength. I don’t get any credit for that. She’s strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.

 

Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her I’d let her do it if she wanted to. She doesn’t like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but I’ve told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, I’d be OK with it. It’s only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far she’s not really interested. Quite frankly it seems she’s gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes I’ll post it here.

<br style="font-weight: bold;">FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:

 

Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star

 

Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I’ll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You’ll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

 

Your questions were:

Q: Why did y...ou decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

 

A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it’s a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer “Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook” my answer is this: Because that’s how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people… originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

 

Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

 

A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn’t remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought “Well, I’ll just wait it out and I’ll get it back eventually.” Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won’t ever forget and it’ll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she’ll remember it and wish she hadn’t done what she did.

 

The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don’t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it’s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you’re young. Most of the things she has that are “cool” were bought or gifted that way. She’s always asked for very few things, but they’re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That’s not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it’s not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

 

She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she’s got parents. It’s not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she’ll NEVER leave it outside at night. She’ll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She’ll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

 

Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She’s known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you’re too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I’m certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

<br style="font-weight: bold;">Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

 

A: She responded to the video with “I can’t believe you shot my computer!” That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

 

Later after she’d had time to process it and I’d had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce… you know that uncomfortable moment when you’re in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you’re both waiting to see which one’s going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

 

People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she’s too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was “Dude… it’s only a computer. I mean, yeah I’m mad but pfft.” She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn’t too keen on the stripping thing.

 

We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

 

First: As her father, I’ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

 

Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She’s seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can’t take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.

 

 

 

Did nobody read this? TJ did you not read this? Why didn't this thread end with this?

 

I gave up on TJ several pages ago, there is no getting through to him. He's a genius.

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