bp9801 Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 That is exactly what I was replying to. Your post made it seem like there is a possibility the new xbox coming out in 2013 would still use a Dx9 video card like the Xbox of 2005. Going with a Dx11 card isn't exactly some major accomplishment. By the time this thing releases you won't even be able to buy a 6670 on Newegg most likely. They will probably be talking about Dx13 in 2013 and we'll be right back to where we are now - whining about being 2 generations shy. I never implied the Next Xbox would use a DX9 card. I was saying it is nice to finally see an implementation of a DX11 card because maybe developers will finally have to use some fairly modern technology to create games. When Windows 8 releases, we'll be on DirectX 11.1. We may be talking about DX 12 next year, but I highly doubt we'll have much in the way of games to utilize it. We're barely seeing games use DX11... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinexis Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 The problem is that most of you guys are seeing the Xbox 6670 in relation to PC performance. The console is a specialised piece of kit. Going from the old 360 GPU to the 6670 the new Xbox will use the visuals will be a kick in the teeth at any level. In a good way. Theoretically speaking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sgamer Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) The problem is that most of you guys are seeing the Xbox 6670 in relation to PC performance. The console is a specialised piece of kit. Going from the old 360 GPU to the 6670 the new Xbox will use the visuals will be a kick in the teeth at any level. In a good way. Theoretically speaking. Thats true. Theres no way you could run Skyrim on an Radeon X1800 card (at least not smoothly, even at lower settings), but it runs fine on the Xbox's equivalent. Why? Bethesda optimized the &*#! out of it for that card because that is the only card they had to worry about. Devs will probably squeeze more performance out of the 6670 on the Xbox 720 than the PC owners of that card will ever see. Still, I would have hoped they would grab a faster card for even greater future proofing, but oh well. Edited January 27, 2012 by 90sgamer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp9801 Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Thats true. Theres no way you could run Skyrim on an Radeon X1800 card (at least not smoothly, even at lower settings), but it runs fine on the Xbox's equivalent. Why? Bethesda optimized the &*#! out of it for that card because that is the only card they had to worry about. Devs will probably squeeze more performance out of the 6670 on the Xbox 720 than the PC owners of that card will ever see. Still, I would have hoped they would grab a faster card for even greater future proofing, but oh well. The X1800 in the Xbox 360 seems to be doing fine, thanks to optimizations. Like I said before, a console is great because it allows the developer to design around one hardware specification and can optimize to look amazing, even though an equivalent version for the PC requires a system heaps more powerful to get it looking good, let alone great. Optimizations are key for consoles, just as they are for the PCs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danieljury3 Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Getting rid of the biggest advantage of a console, the ability to just put in a disk and play? I don't care about the used games market but it seems like it might kill games rentals and I normally rent all the games except the ones I want the most. Haven't actually rented any games for quite a while thanks to steam. Any late fees on games and movies from the rental store normally got reduced to next to nothing due to the quantity of stuff my family rented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheGamer11 Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Thanks goodness the used disc thing is a rumor, if Microsoft decides to make it true then hello Sony/ PC gaming... probably Sony since it's cheaper... when is E3? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp9801 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Dan, E3 will be this June. Microsoft says no new Xbox in 2012. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fogel Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I never implied the Next Xbox would use a DX9 card. I was saying it is nice to finally see an implementation of a DX11 card because maybe developers will finally have to use some fairly modern technology to create games. When Windows 8 releases, we'll be on DirectX 11.1. We may be talking about DX 12 next year, but I highly doubt we'll have much in the way of games to utilize it. We're barely seeing games use DX11... Not exactly my point with my post. A Dx11 card is pretty much a given as that is pretty much all that is available these days. I think the first one was in the 5800 series. All I am saying is I think they could have strived harder to push the limits. Before a console would last 5yrs with the next one within sight around year 4. The Xbox 360 launched in Nov 2005, so we are approaching year 7. It's probably going to go 8 years ...maybe even more since many are slow to adopt. Since the 720 isn't launching for at least 1 more year you have to think whatever hardware design they go with it will have to last at least 9 years ...even if the first year is eaten up for the design/build/test phase. Right now it is the Xbox holding back console port games. Rather than using the same approach they did for the 360 I just think they could modify their strategy and try to overtake the market. This is like Nintendo's safe approach it took with the Nintendo 64 back in the day. It's not like I'm suggesting they go the PS3 route with some complex cell design, a video card with more HP is a pretty damn safe bet. I have always said on these forums in the PC vs Console debates that people can't draw direct 1:1 relationships in terms of power when it comes to the two. A specialized computer (console) with set hardware can be far more efficient at 1 task than a multifunctional pc. But that point doesn't take away from my arguement. If you're a console maker you won't win on API (the next direct x) but you can at least spend some of those profits in R&D to add more juice to your system without getting PS3 crazy. Especially if its going to be 8-9 years till your next design. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp9801 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Not exactly my point with my post. A Dx11 card is pretty much a given as that is pretty much all that is available these days. I think the first one was in the 5800 series. All I am saying is I think they could have strived harder to push the limits. Before a console would last 5yrs with the next one within sight around year 4. The Xbox 360 launched in Nov 2005, so we are approaching year 7. It's probably going to go 8 years ...maybe even more since many are slow to adopt. Since the 720 isn't launching for at least 1 more year you have to think whatever hardware design they go with it will have to last at least 9 years ...even if the first year is eaten up for the design/build/test phase. Right now it is the Xbox holding back console port games. Rather than using the same approach they did for the 360 I just think they could modify their strategy and try to overtake the market. This is like Nintendo's safe approach it took with the Nintendo 64 back in the day. It's not like I'm suggesting they go the PS3 route with some complex cell design, a video card with more HP is a pretty damn safe bet. I have always said on these forums in the PC vs Console debates that people can't draw direct 1:1 relationships in terms of power when it comes to the two. A specialized computer (console) with set hardware can be far more efficient at 1 task than a multifunctional pc. But that point doesn't take away from my arguement. If you're a console maker you won't win on API (the next direct x) but you can at least spend some of those profits in R&D to add more juice to your system without getting PS3 crazy. Especially if its going to be 8-9 years till your next design. You're still comparing an Xbox GPU to a PC GPU though. The tech Microsoft is thinking of using, which means, not final, is based on the AMD HD 6670. It is not like Microsoft is cramming an HD 6670 into whatever the Next Xbox will be, but it will borrow elements from it. The whole point of the Xbox is to show off DirectX on a console anyway. That is why it is called an Xbox.. for DirectX box. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fogel Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) You're still comparing an Xbox GPU to a PC GPU though. The tech Microsoft is thinking of using, which means, not final, is based on the AMD HD 6670. It is not like Microsoft is cramming an HD 6670 into whatever the Next Xbox will be, but it will borrow elements from it. My point is independant of their implementation method. Just because the API is the biggest feature doesn't mean there aren't other features from later models that wouldn't also be beneficial enough to justify the expense. About the only other thing the 6670 would have going for it is the ability to do hybrid crossfire. The whole point of the Xbox is to show off DirectX on a console anyway. That is why it is called an Xbox.. for DirectX box. I didn't know that. If that is their goal than they should come up with some creative idea of being able to update Direct X without compromising the ability to code for a console. Always being behind the power curve isn't much of a statement. Edit: Oh and you keep harping on me for seeming to miss your point and not join the "Oh this is great bandwagon!" but you keep missing my point. If they are going to make the console lifecycle longer, than using the same design model as their previous attempts isn't the best strategy. Xbox has yet to be the dominant console despite having the best online play. One would think someone at Microsoft would get the hint already. Edited January 30, 2012 by Fogel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheGamer11 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 If they go the Xenon way it'll have like 256GB/s bandwidth.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheGamer11 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Also Wii is the dominant one... Why can't I edit... Stop spamming > Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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