Tjj226_Angel Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Ok, I might have been a little confusing. I am certainly not trolling. Ok, first off where I said I put multiple CPUs onto the same socket. I meant to say motherboard. That was just a typo. Now with regaurds to the hyper transport. Let me clarify. It isn't that I couldn't use hyper transport, it is that I could not use it to its max extent. AMD chips have hyper transport. Every one knows this right? Well guess what, if you are using a newer chip with a faster hyper transport, then your older chipset may not support the hyper transport to its max speed. The older boards, such as what was happening with AM2 sockets were upgrading the chipset, but not the chip socket. So lets say for argument sake that I have a AMD 8150 processor, and the speed of the hyper transport runs at XXXX speed, but I don't have a lot of money, and I need a cheap mobo. The cheapest one would be a 970 chipset as opposed to a 990 (plus or minus the x). Well, the 970 will only run hyper transport at speed X. This effect bottle necks the XXXX speed of the 8150 to just plain X speed. (You should know that I haven't looked up the speeds. I know that the problem is still there, and my concept is correct, but I don't have the specific numbers. I am dead tired from my volunteer job, and after this post I am going to sleep, so cut me a break). Basically this same bottle neck was happening on our servers. That is the reason I have had problems with opteron. NOT AMD. I am not saying they are bad chips. I am just saying I would not prefer them.........yet. Opterons and APUs are the only two series of AMD chips I would actually consider buying by the way, so I am not bashing the Opteron, I am just stating I had a bad experience and would rather go with intel in the future. Super simple! As for the people saying that believing future proofing is nuts...................I don't know what to say, because one of the biggest arguments for AMD in the past was how they didn't change sockets. That is referred to a future proofing my friends. So to take AMDs biggest attribute that they were relying on in the past, and now claiming that it is nuts is a little odd. My language and ability to read when I am tired might be digging me into a hole, but I would say that it is your crappy arguments that are doing the same to you? I think Waco has the right approach though when he stated that it is basically buying more than what you need....with the old stuff. However, with the new stuff from intel, you can upgrade and spend less. So in reality, "buying more than what you need" only applies to people buying X79 and AMD stuff, 1155 is sitting quite pretty to destroy that argument all together. @taco: The ONLY reason why I would say not to get an APU right now is because they can wait for the new stuff. That isn't me saying that the current chip is not good, it is just that I PERSONALLY would wait. I will admit, I finally got the sarcasm you and speed way were talking about. I have been thinking this entire time it was a joke against intel, not a sarcastic joke. That is why when you said it was a joke I was like YES I understand it was a joke, I just didn't think it was a sarcastic joke. Thats why I have been so confused. So I do apologize for that. Next to address everyone saying that this is a trolling or this is off topic, it is meant to be a debate. This isn't like me trying to convert people into Intel consumers and hate on AMD. This is meant as more of a way to pass time. So just relax. Have fun, and actually try to argue something rather than point fingers. So far, taco has had the best post, and he is arguing for AMD, so I don't know why the rest of you can't follow in his foot steps AMD people? Just to make this perfectly clear, this is a "just something to do" debate. Don't kill anyone over it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirro Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 to upgrade to such things means you have adequate hardware to make it even justified. they are better, but they sure don't blow anything out of the water enough to drop ship, especially if usb3,sata6 and ddr3 is all that is to upgrade.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedway Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I will admit, I finally got the sarcasm you and speed way were talking about. I have been thinking this entire time it was a joke against intel, not a sarcastic joke. That is why when you said it was a joke I was like YES I understand it was a joke, I just didn't think it was a sarcastic joke. Thats why I have been so confused. So I do apologize for that. Tjj, the joke is on us, not Intel or AMD! Intel is making a mint on changing sockets that often, with the chipset and the cpu! I am one of those suckers upgrading from 1366 to 1155 for what? Basically nothing! So while Intel changes the sockets and cpus walking to the bank smiling, the joke is against us That was the basic point I think of what we were saying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 AMD chips have hyper transport. Every one knows this right? Well guess what, if you are using a newer chip with a faster hyper transport, then your older chipset may not support the hyper transport to its max speed. The older boards, such as what was happening with AM2 sockets were upgrading the chipset, but not the chip socket. So lets say for argument sake that I have a AMD 8150 processor, and the speed of the hyper transport runs at XXXX speed, but I don't have a lot of money, and I need a cheap mobo. The cheapest one would be a 970 chipset as opposed to a 990 (plus or minus the x). Well, the 970 will only run hyper transport at speed X. This effect bottle necks the XXXX speed of the 8150 to just plain X speed. (You should know that I haven't looked up the speeds. I know that the problem is still there, and my concept is correct, but I don't have the specific numbers. I am dead tired from my volunteer job, and after this post I am going to sleep, so cut me a break). Basically this same bottle neck was happening on our servers. That is the reason I have had problems with opteron. NOT AMD. I am not saying they are bad chips. I am just saying I would not prefer them.........yet. Opterons and APUs are the only two series of AMD chips I would actually consider buying by the way, so I am not bashing the Opteron, I am just stating I had a bad experience and would rather go with intel in the future. Super simple! The difference in speed is minimal at best since it only affects the links between the CPU and the northbridge(s). The coherent links between the CPUs should run at whatever speed the CPUs support. I assume you were running a dual or quad socket Magny-Cours? What actual performance problems did you run into? I played with a bunch of quad-socket Magny-Cours systems this past summer and once I figured out the HyperTransport topology they absolutely screamed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyamdfanboi Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 im a fan boy.. obviously... BD ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! nah kidding.. doesnt even beat phenom core for core.. it failed in a big way.. massive overclocks dont make up for a . architecture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizzou Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 im a fan boy.. obviously... BD ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! nah kidding.. doesnt even beat phenom core for core.. it failed in a big way.. massive overclocks dont make up for a . architecture Totally agree, upgraded from a Phenom X6 1100T and couldn't really believe the initial benchmark results. It does take a fairly massive overclock to pull ahead of the X6. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjj226_Angel Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Tjj, the joke is on us, not Intel or AMD! Intel is making a mint on changing sockets that often, with the chipset and the cpu! I am one of those suckers upgrading from 1366 to 1155 for what? Basically nothing! So while Intel changes the sockets and cpus walking to the bank smiling, the joke is against us That was the basic point I think of what we were saying I know now! I feel so stupid. I probably read the line about 30 times before I figured it out . I suck at picking up written emotions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjj226_Angel Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 The difference in speed is minimal at best since it only affects the links between the CPU and the northbridge(s). The coherent links between the CPUs should run at whatever speed the CPUs support. I assume you were running a dual or quad socket Magny-Cours? What actual performance problems did you run into? I played with a bunch of quad-socket Magny-Cours systems this past summer and once I figured out the HyperTransport topology they absolutely screamed. Two of them are dual sockets, the rest are quad. The performance issue is when they opened up another campus. I know that is sort of a no duh, but our servers keep crashing. The reality of it comes down to school funding. We don't have enough money to expand the server, and even if we did, the AMD rep. told the school that it should be fine. We are REALLY stressing it though. My PERSONAL problem with the hyper transport problem was that it is because we had a new processor and an old motherboard. Now I can not buy the parts. The school buys the parts. The school worked with the AMD rep. . The AMD rep. gave us old boards. I think it was a buisness issue more than anything else, but considering that ANY little bit would help right now, I really wish I either had the full Hyper transport, or an intel processor. My problem I guess is more of an awww shi* the server is down again, and the competing college has an Intel based server and it is all intel. It never goes down. I don't know what to say other than I don't want the server to go down again, and if intel kept the other college up and running, in theory it should do the same for us. PS the servers are the same size and spec since it was the same government money that bought it. They have Intel, we have AMD and that is the ONLY difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjj226_Angel Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 im a fan boy.. obviously... BD ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! nah kidding.. doesnt even beat phenom core for core.. it failed in a big way.. massive overclocks dont make up for a . architecture I can not imagine AMD will just sit on the problem. The fact that we were promised so much and delivered so little is really confusing. They must have a trick up their sleeve. The problem is even if they do have a trick, the 2600K is still going to beat it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 The performance issue is when they opened up another campus. I know that is sort of a no duh, but our servers keep crashing. Crashing has absolutely nothing to do with performance. Something else is wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) This is not a debate. You're just bashing AMD (not even bulldozer, but AMD, its so clear from your posts) left and right. Everyone has read the reviews, everyone agrees Bulldozer did not turn out to be what was expected. We've known this since launch. So what? I also find it funny you made rules. Especially about not allowing people to talk about Phenom processors. if we dont bring them up THIS IS A DEAD DEBATE. And they shouldn't be left out of the picture because they are still on the market and still giving other Intel SB processors a run for their money. So why shouldn't be allowed. They are still making AMD billions of dollars. Thats a good enough reason to bring them up in any type of Intel (latest chip) vs AMD (latest chip) debate. Im not trying to defend AMD by going against you man but this thread really has no meaning other than to serve as grounds for you to say how bad AMD is doing. A couple posts back you literally said you would "burn" bulldozer cpus because they were plain trash. Doesnt that go against one of the rules you mentioned in your first posts about being mature when going into this debate? If you were open minded about some of the valid points some members said in previous posts (theres already been a few by Taco alone) as to why Bulldozer is genuinely a decent chip, I'd have much more respect for this thread and you. But that's not the case. It seems you jump discussions so you can contine preaching to the masses trying to deter them from enjoying the company AMD, as a whole and how bad they are comapared to Intel. Edited December 2, 2011 by damian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjj226_Angel Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 This is not a debate. You're just bashing AMD (not even bulldozer, but AMD, its so clear from your posts) left and right. Everyone has read the reviews, everyone agrees Bulldozer did not turn out to be what was expected. We've known this since launch. So what? I also find it funny you made rules. Especially about not allowing people to talk about Phenom processors. if we dont bring them up THIS IS A DEAD DEBATE. And they shouldn't be left out of the picture because they are still on the market and still giving other Intel SB processors a run for their money. So why shouldn't be allowed. They are still making AMD billions of dollars. Thats a good enough reason to bring them up in any type of Intel (latest chip) vs AMD (latest chip) debate. Im not trying to defend AMD by going against you man but this thread really has no meaning other than to serve as grounds for you to say how bad AMD is doing. A couple posts back you literally said you would "burn" bulldozer cpus because they were plain trash. Doesnt that go against one of the rules you mentioned in your first posts about being mature when going into this debate? If you were open minded about some of the valid points some members said in previous posts (theres already been a few by Taco alone) as to why Bulldozer is genuinely a decent chip, I'd have much more respect for this thread and you. But that's not the case. It seems you jump discussions so you can contine preaching to the masses trying to deter them from enjoying the company AMD, as a whole and how bad they are comapared to Intel. That is because there hasn't been a good argument. Tacos argument for the APU is the best one so far for the AMD side. I have said that about three times, and I do give AMD credit for the APU. The only remark I made about it is that I would wait until the new APUs come out before I tell any one to buy it. That is it. So before you say that this is just a thread to bash AMD, think again. there just has not been a strong argument for AMD. Here is the problem. People like you are spending more time criticizing the thread rather than coming up with a good argument for AMD. If you think that there is a reson why people should still buy a phenom processor then share it. Don't complain about the thread, share you ideas. Prove me wrong. Here, I will start your post for you. AMD is good because of......... Seriously, if people would take more time to actually try to help form the debate, then we would actually have a good thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts