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Wanting to upgrade my desktop and needing some advices!


Palmaaa

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So first of all, im André(you can call me palma or w/e) and i live in portugal.

Found this website today while i was searching for a review and thought "why not give it a try and post something! "

 

Im making this thread to ask some of you guys for opinions about my upgrade! Not a real expert in this kind of things but i think i get some of the basics.

 

So here are the components im going to buy at the beginning of December:

 

- Asus P8P67-M Pro Rev 3.0 [115,50€]

- PowerColor HD 6870 PCS+ 1GB DDR5 [179,60€]

- Corsair Kit 8GB DDR3 1600MHZ Vengeance Blue(CL9) [49,50€]

- Intel Core i5 2500k (3.3GHZ) SKT 1155 [196,50€]

-Nox Urano 600W [taking this from the desktop i have atm]

-Nox Moonlight SE [taking this from the desktop i have atm]

 

The purpose of this computer is for gaming and a bit photoshop and after effects (nothing professinal, just for fun)

 

So what do you guys think? Would you change anything?(Just talking about what im going to buy, not what i already have!)

(the price range is about 550€ almost the price all those components cost)

 

Thank you very much for any help given!

 

PS: probably wont help but im going to buy at this store http://www.globaldata.pt/

you can check the prices there but the site is in portuguese so...

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I will try to keep this as simple as possible, since I am really confused on you your prices work.

 

Motherboard http://www.globaldata.pt/index.aspx?p=ProdDetailRef&ProdRef=ASRZ68E3G3

 

Trust me, the Z68 chipset is worth it. You can use SRT technology and you will have a better board for overclocking the i5. :thumbsup:

 

I really have no clue how to read your currency, so I have no clue how much more this card is priced at compared to the one you have picked out....http://www.globaldata.pt/index.aspx?p=ProdDetailRef&ProdRef=90-0C1CQW0L0UAY0YZ . I think a nvidia card is much better at any sort of visual editing (I am a photographer by hobby). Something should consider would be to go with a lower end graphics card. Unless you plan on gaming on your pc, you might only need a gtx 550ti or even gts 450. If this is a purley hobby pc, like you are doing nothing higher than adobe after affects, you could just use the integrated graphics on the processor. I use my laptop for "in the field" editing and I run CS5 on it and with the GMA 3000 graphics on the i5 processor works great! No slow downs or ugly pictures here!

 

If you do go with a cheaper solution, get yourself an SSD. They are so useful for editing that when you get one and use it, you will spend a lifetime thanking me. They are just that good. Get any sata III 6Gbps 120gb drive and use it as a boot drive and install your programs on it. You will thank me!

 

Next, you would really benefit from more ram. Editing of any kind eats up a ton of ram (Adobe CS5 and after effects are prime examples). The more you have the more you benefit.

 

Otherwise you have a great PC, and don't hesitate to ask for help.

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As i said im not really an expert in this area so i asked for help from some friends at work and they adviced me not to buy ASRock boards due to some issues they told me at that time (cant really remember what it was!) and the board i have at this moment is an ASRock P35 (my current build was also not done by me). So im not really sure about that board but i might be mistaken! About the SRT technology could you explain what that is? i tried searching for it but i dont think any of those things that came up were about it! Oh and about the SSD, not getting one atm but im planning on getting one soon!

 

Btw the price diference between boards is like 14$! The P8P67 is 155$ and the Z68 is 169$

 

Thank you very much for the trouble you had searching the website!

 

PS: at this moment im not really interested in overclocking! (no idea how to do it and might just screw up) I just thought it would be a good idea to get the 2500k if i ever thought of doing it!(as far as i read, the diference between the 2500 and the 2500k is that the 2500k is unlocked to be overclocked to the max value it supports or something like that right?)

 

i could also just go with the HD6870 instead of the HD6870 PCS+ but i dont really know.. i tend to always go with what's better and they are not that different in terms of prices nor performance as far as i read and i could save some money!

Edited by Palmaaa

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As i said im not really an expert in this area so i asked for help from some friends at work and they adviced me not to buy ASRock boards due to some issues they told me at that time (cant really remember what it was!) and the board i have at this moment is an ASRock P35 (my current build was also not done by me). So im not really sure about that board but i might be mistaken! About the SRT technology could you explain what that is? i tried searching for it but i dont think any of those things that came up were about it! Oh and about the SSD, not getting one atm but im planning on getting one soon!

 

Btw the price diference between boards is like 14$! The P8P67 is 155$ and the Z68 is 169$

 

Thank you very much for the trouble you had searching the website!

 

Did your friends say things about asrock from the past or the current boards? Because believe it or not the current Asrock boards are having less problems than Gigabyte boards. Asrock used to be absolute crap. However, the current boards that are coming out are SOOOO much better. You should really give it a second look.

 

As for explaining the SRT technology here is a video................

 

 

 

 

And no problem, this has to be one of my favorite things to do at the moment! That is why I post all the time.

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So after listening to that video explanation i undestand that the z68 chipset is better!

Like with the z68 it wouldnt use your graphics card for simple tasks and instead it would use the integrated graphics on you processor!

Starting to learn something! eheh

 

So the motherboard im thinking of buying has the P67 chipset which (relying on the video explanation) is worse than the Z68!

And they support Ivy bridge processors right? Does the P67 support them?

One thing im still thinking about is the MemOk! feature. I mean, i dont even know how that works and what it is for but do i need that?

 

Im really sorry if im asking too much for your help but i would really like to have someone that could just explain things to me and not just throw the things in here without me getting nothing of it!

 

Thank you very much!

 

 

Btw i dont know if you read what i edited on my last post but here it is!

 

 

"PS: at this moment im not really interested in overclocking! (no idea how to do it and might just screw up) I just thought it would be a good idea to get the 2500k if i ever thought of doing it!(as far as i read, the diference between the 2500 and the 2500k is that the 2500k is unlocked to be overclocked to the max value it supports or something like that right?)

 

i could also just go with the HD6870 instead of the HD6870 PCS+ but i dont really know.. i tend to always go with what's better and they are not that different in terms of prices nor performance as far as i read and i could save some money! "

Edited by Palmaaa

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So after listening to that video explanation i undestand that the z68 chipset is better!

Like with the z68 it wouldnt use your graphics card for simple tasks and instead it would use the integrated graphics on you processor!

Starting to learn something! eheh

 

So the motherboard im thinking of buying has the P67 chipset which (relying on the video explanation) is worse than the Z68!

And they support Ivy bridge processors right? Does the P67 support them?

One thing im still thinking about is the MemOk! feature. I mean, i dont even know how that works and what it is for but do i need that?

 

Im really sorry if im asking too much for your help but i would really like to have someone that could just explain things to me and not just throw the things in here without me getting nothing of it!

 

Thank you very much!

 

 

Btw i dont know if you read what i edited on my last post but here it is!

 

 

"PS: at this moment im not really interested in overclocking! (no idea how to do it and might just screw up) I just thought it would be a good idea to get the 2500k if i ever thought of doing it!(as far as i read, the diference between the 2500 and the 2500k is that the 2500k is unlocked to be overclocked to the max value it supports or something like that right?)

 

i could also just go with the HD6870 instead of the HD6870 PCS+ but i dont really know.. i tend to always go with what's better and they are not that different in terms of prices nor performance as far as i read and i could save some money! "

 

I had the same notion about overclocking, I didn't know how to do it and I would probably screw it up. And yes, the difference between 2500 and 2500k is what you said. If you just look up a few tutorials on how to do it, you won't think so badly about it. If other people can do it, you can too. Although it's not up to me, you decide if you want to gain more performance out of it or not. If you do overclock, you want to keep in mind of your heat. The higher you go, the hotter it gets, and colder your cooling needs to be.

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So after listening to that video explanation i undestand that the z68 chipset is better!

Like with the z68 it wouldnt use your graphics card for simple tasks and instead it would use the integrated graphics on you processor!

Starting to learn something! eheh

 

So the motherboard im thinking of buying has the P67 chipset which (relying on the video explanation) is worse than the Z68!

And they support Ivy bridge processors right? Does the P67 support them?

One thing im still thinking about is the MemOk! feature. I mean, i dont even know how that works and what it is for but do i need that?

 

Im really sorry if im asking too much for your help but i would really like to have someone that could just explain things to me and not just throw the things in here without me getting nothing of it!

 

Thank you very much!

 

 

I get what you mean and no you aren't asking too much. This is your money that you are spending on this and you should feel comfortable about what you are buying. Education is the only way to accomplish that. I just didn't think you wanted to much more than what I had given you. My bad.

 

Let me clear up some different things.

 

What boards support Ivy Bridge? All 1155 socket type board support ivy bridge. Ivy Bridge processors are backwards compatible with 1155 socket as long as they update the BIOS to acept the newer chips. Here is where things get complicated...... Motherboards these days are coming out with Pci-e Gen 3 ports. These new ports are twice as fast as the current ports so you definitely want to incorporate that into your build, but the sandy bridge processors don't support Gen 3 ports. Instead, the gen 3 ports that are currently on motherboards will run at gen 2 speeds. Only with an ivy bridge processor (and a gen 3 video card to use the bandwidth) can you use those Gen three ports to their full bandwidth. Beside the processors being faster (as always) the Gen 3 port is the biggest advantage I can think of. With Gen 3 being a whole new generation of tech it is something you definitely want that in your build.

 

There is 1 p67 chipset board that supports the gen 3 ports, and that is a bit of a turn off. If it is only 1 board, who knows what the reliability is like.

 

You asked if the mem ok button is something you need, you don't. It is something to make sure your ram works with your motherboard. That was nice a year ago or two, but now, memory is usually automatically detected. The feature is sort of pointless these days.

 

Keep asking questions and I will try to answer. :cheers:

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I had the same notion about overclocking, I didn't know how to do it and I would probably screw it up. And yes, the difference between 2500 and 2500k is what you said. If you just look up a few tutorials on how to do it, you won't think so badly about it. If other people can do it, you can too. Although it's not up to me, you decide if you want to gain more performance out of it or not. If you do overclock, you want to keep in mind of your heat. The higher you go, the hotter it gets, and colder your cooling needs to be.

 

Well yeah for now i kinda want to stay with regular use but since i never done that i have some curiosity and probably isnt even that hard if i research a bit before doing it and also save some money to buy a better cooling system!

 

ty for the reply Black Mage!

 

I get what you mean and no you aren't asking too much. This is your money that you are spending on this and you should feel comfortable about what you are buying. Education is the only way to accomplish that. I just didn't think you wanted to much more than what I had given you. My bad.

 

Let me clear up some different things.

 

What boards support Ivy Bridge? All 1155 socket type board support ivy bridge. Ivy Bridge processors are backwards compatible with 1155 socket as long as they update the BIOS to acept the newer chips. Here is where things get complicated...... Motherboards these days are coming out with Pci-e Gen 3 ports. These new ports are twice as fast as the current ports so you definitely want to incorporate that into your build, but the sandy bridge processors don't support Gen 3 ports. Instead, the gen 3 ports that are currently on motherboards will run at gen 2 speeds. Only with an ivy bridge processor (and a gen 3 video card to use the bandwidth) can you use those Gen three ports to their full bandwidth. Beside the processors being faster (as always) the Gen 3 port is the biggest advantage I can think of. With Gen 3 being a whole new generation of tech it is something you definitely want that in your build.

 

There is 1 p67 chipset board that supports the gen 3 ports, and that is a bit of a turn off. If it is only 1 board, who knows what the reliability is like.

 

You asked if the mem ok button is something you need, you don't. It is something to make sure your ram works with your motherboard. That was nice a year ago or two, but now, memory is usually automatically detected. The feature is sort of pointless these days.

 

Keep asking questions and I will try to answer. :cheers:

 

Woow you've been an incredible help for me Tjj226_Angel! As far as i understood buying that board i would be getting a great board for current processors and graphics card but would also be prepared for when i want to upgrade my processor to the ivybridge series and my graphics card to a pci-e 3.0! For that price i think its a great deal!

 

What about cooling system? Do you advice anything for a newbie in this area that sometime in the future might want to overclock?

 

Appreciate all the time you're taking with my questions!

 

PS: i was trying to compare the HD6870 PCS+ to the nvidia GTX560 and as far as i read the HD6870 is wayyyy better! But why the price differences? (Nvidia's is more expensive)

Got a comparison here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-560-amp-edition-gtx-560-directcu-ii-top,2944.html

Edited by Palmaaa

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Well, something you and black mage should both know about overclocking these days is this. When you overclock sandy bridge, you aren't overclocking the processors as much as you are overclocking the turbo speed. For instance, when your processor is at idle load (when you do nothing) it underclocks a little to save power and keep the CPU cool, when it is at load it gets really hot. Simple logic right? Well when you overclocked the old i7s or i5s you overclocked not only the max at which it could perform, but also the minimum of which it could perform. So take my intel i7 950 for example. When you overclock you change 5 variables primarily, but lets just focus on two of them. The variable titled Base clock or "BLCK" refers to the frequency and the "CPU ratio" or multiplier is what multiplies that frequency to give your speed. So I know that my i7 950 will have a "idle" speed of 1.6ghz with a base clock of 133 (because that is stock frequency) and a 12 multiplier, even though my the base speed is a little over 3ghz. This "underclock" is to conserve energy and reduce heat. However it is important in understanding the difference in overclocking between these chips. Out of the box the processor will never change that frequency of 133 (other than turbo speed, but you would need to take a class in computer engineering to fully understand that....it really is confusing), but in order to reduce heat on idle, it will change the multiplier. So the difference between 1.6ghz and 3ghz is the multiplier jumps up when it detects load. It jumps from a measly twelve multiplier all the way up to 23 (133 base clock multiplied by 23 (multiplier) =3.06 which is the stock speed). So when I overclock I say well that is too slow. I am not a fan of the speed, so I will change it. I can change the base clock (which still won't change) from lets say 133 to 200 and I will change the multiplier from 23 to only 20. If you multiply this out you have 200 base and then a 20 multiplier which equals a 4ghz overclock. Now the processor will still underclock to 12 as the multiplier just as it did at stock. HOWEVER, the baseclock does not change. What does that mean? Well we multiply 200 by 12 to find that the weak and boring underclock phase is at 2.4GHZ!!!!!!!!! That is 800mhz faster on the underclock and a full Ghz of extra speed on the full load of the processor. So in this sense we overclocked the whole processor ie idle speed and load speed.

 

On the Sandy bridge processors you don't really mess with the base clock at all. You only raise the multiplier (AND OTHER THINGS, we are just ignoring the others for simplicity). Now in order to really raise the multiplier you need a "K" series processors. The K signifies that the multiplier is unrestricted by Intel and that you can raise that multiplier to the moon. This makes it incredibly easy to overclock. Not to even mention that with the release of sandy bridge that came out with touch BIOS. This allows you to use your mouse to make changes in the BIOS and the BIOS looks nice and welcoming (which pisses me off because your grandmother can now overclock and there is no soul any more). Ok so you should know that you mostly screw around with the multiplier on the Sandy Bridge, but what does that really mean. Well, remember how the baseclock didn't change on the 950? The only thing that changed was the multiplier and it would always default to a 12 multiplier to keep it cool. Well the same thing applies to sandy bridge. On sandy bridge I believe your baseclock is always 100 (correct me if I am wrong), and lets say that the "underclock" multiplier is only 14. This will give you 1.4ghz on the idle speed. Now when you move the multiplier to higher and higher speeds, you baseclock and your underclocked multiplier remain the same. This means that when you overclock a sandy bridge processor, you are only overclocking the full load speed and NOT the underclock speed. So basically you are only overclocking a feature of the chip.

 

However, with this sort of approach, your processor doesn't get as hot. :biggrin: . Some people have been able to get 4.8ghz stable on air (and I am sure people have been able to achieve more, but I have physically seen 4.8ghz so I will use that as an example).

 

Now we are onto coolers. HMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm. Your case is actually really bad for cooling. Normally with cases these days you have some fan ports at the top of your case. This provides sufficient air flow over your parts to keep them nice and cold. Your case doesn't have this sort of ability. In fact your case is especially bad because where it SHOULD get most of its air from is from the front of the case, and from what I can tell, that front fan is really struggling with the case door and the dust filter and then the air is heated by the hard drive and everything else. The only thing keeping me from telling you to get a new case is that side fan.........and it might be because the case looks freaking sweet :biggrin: . Thankfully I have a solution. When you get a cooler, you should take that rear fan and flip it around. Currently it is an exhaust and it would be better as an intake. Do the same with that front fan. Flip it around so that it is an exhaust. Now normally people would say that the fans are fine where they are. The idea is that the intake should be lower than exhaust so that the natural occurrence of heat rising can lead it straight to the exhaust. To me that is freaking stupid because you are also leading that hotter air straight to your processor. By flipping it around, you get the coldest air possible sent straight to your heat sink. This is where you would say BUT TJ TJ TJ!?!?!?!? Where is all the hot air going to go???? Well with your giant side fan, you should get enough turbulence to basically force any air, hot or cold, out the front fan. I THINK (meaning you should test it out with a cooler, before you just leave it like that forever) that it would be a much more efficient way of cooling your parts.

 

With that said we move onto the coolers themselves. For this particular build, I would say that the corsair H80 is your best bet. Granted it is expensive, but it wont disrupt the airflow pattern of the side fan. Now this isn't my favorite choice because to me, the fans are too loud. If you go this route, I would change the fans out for something quieter. What I would like to recommend is the Noctua NH-D14 because it does a better job cooling, and it is quiet. However, the performance would be crippled by your case. The best solution could be to do with the noctua NH-C14 (there is a difference between the D and the C in the name). My though is that since the airflow of the c14 is downward, it might get a huge boost by that side fan.

 

Honestly though, I would get a different case. Believe it or not, cases get out dated because of cooling issues, and I am pretty positive you will have cooling issues. If you want to keep your case, but don't think you will get addicted to overclocking, then keep your fans in the same place and just go with a cooler master 212 EVO. Cheap work extraordinarily well and gets the job done. Even with that, I would still change the case. When your case is missing a top fan mount is when you start running into issues. Just my two cents.

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Well yeah for now i kinda want to stay with regular use but since i never done that i have some curiosity and probably isnt even that hard if i research a bit before doing it and also save some money to buy a better cooling system!

 

ty for the reply Black Mage!

 

 

 

Woow you've been an incredible help for me Tjj226_Angel! As far as i understood buying that board i would be getting a great board for current processors and graphics card but would also be prepared for when i want to upgrade my processor to the ivybridge series and my graphics card to a pci-e 3.0! For that price i think its a great deal!

 

What about cooling system? Do you advice anything for a newbie in this area that sometime in the future might want to overclock?

 

Appreciate all the time you're taking with my questions!

 

PS: i was trying to compare the HD6870 PCS+ to the nvidia GTX560 and as far as i read the HD6870 is wayyyy better! But why the price differences? (Nvidia's is more expensive)

Got a comparison here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-560-amp-edition-gtx-560-directcu-ii-top,2944.html

 

I know the answer, and the 560 is actually better, but for me to explain it to you would be maddening. I know you want an explanation, but just trust me on this one. It has to do with 3D and physX and just too much stuff, but the slimmed down version is Nvidia has more features. You must work with cameras for doing photo editing right? Lets pretend you do. You are comparing cannon to nikon. The Cannon has more Mega pixels more functionality, and is cheaper than Nikon. Nikon has a lot less than cannon but is more expensive. Why? Well Nikon has a better CMOS in the camera and usually has better lens quality which gives you a sharper more clear image. If we relate this back to video cards, we see that AMD (AMD bought out ATI) has better functionality, maybe more memory, and performs better with frame rates. However it is some how cheaper that Nvidia. How is that? Nvidia just has better engineering behind it. It has something referred to as PhysX and Cuda cores. You can think of these two things as the better CMOS and the clearer lens on the Nikon, except much more complicated. These basically come in really handy when you are rendering images. Because Nvidia has this technology on it you will actually notice better image quality out of anti aliasing. Now on the gaming side, it is a pain because you have to spend a LOT more money to go with nvidia to get the same FPS that ATI has. But when you compare quantity of frame rates to the quality of the image, Nvidia wins hands down. ((((((((((((((((((For all of you who are going to say I am wrong, I am not a gamer!!!!!!! I do a lot of simulations and video rendering on my PC for research purposes and I can tell you from flipping experience Nvidia wins. Period. Since this guy is planning on using Adobe after effects, he will get better use out of a nvidia card than an AMD one so don't crucify me)))))))))).

 

Now if you are serious about editing and even gaming, you should think about going with SLI right out of the gate. There are ways where you could fit in two gtx 460s into you build for relatively the same price. Since you double the amount of processors on the GPU, things like video and photo editing will be MUCH easier. Honestly, if there is one thing I wish I could convince you to go with on this build it would be SLI at some point. I think you would see a lot better quality in what ever you do. Seriously, if your computer could live off of only two things, I think a solid state drive and as many video cards as you can fit, would make a much better system than about 80 percent of people have :biggrin:

 

I hope this helps and keep throwing questions my way :cheers:

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Well it took me a bit of attention to understand all that about overclocking but i got everything you said about your processor and the one im buying! :P

You seem to have way more experience in this area then any of my co-workers! I understood every bit of what you said! (i think :P)

When i bought my desktop i was told that the side fan would be a bit crap because of the dust and i should get a better case and its true, this fan attracts alot of dust.

 

I really dont want to be asking too many questions but even if its only you posting here im learning things i never ever thought about!

 

Been searching for cases now and i found a really cool one! NZXT Phantom. At least it looks really cool :) what you think of it?

I thought of giving you the link to the cases on the website im buying the components so i could have an idea of what would be the best one.

 

Hopefully you dont mind! http://www.globaldata.pt/index.aspx?p=CatPage&CatId=10709

 

This is probably the last thing im asking til i upgrade my desktop so thank you very very very much for the help you gave me! You've been great answering all this questions i learned ALOT from this thread!

I'll update you when i upgrade my desktop and try out some games and some adobe programs :)

 

Once again thank you VERY much! :)

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Well the video editing isnt that serious! I mean i just wanted something good enough to learn and play around, same with photoshop! But the most important is the gaming! I would like something that would let me play any game i want without being concerned if my desktop supports it or not.

But this thread was made with the purpose to recieve opinions so anything is welcome!

 

PS: i came up with a question that i never understood and actually asked my co-workers but still i didnt get it!

I was watching some videos on youtube about the GTX560 right, and i noticed that the guy had an NVidia GTX560 but the store where im buying the stuff has a EVGA GTX560!

I believe the specs are the same but is there any difference? Why are they called differently?

 

Thank you once again!

Edited by Palmaaa

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