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Osama Bin Laden is dead

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how many considering most people were killed at the harbor itself? a few thousand v a few hundred thousand either way innocent people died... japan was the perfect place to test the new weapon... so is america always(not that always) in a war these past few centuries? i mean first it was the first world war then second then cold war then the ones in middle east and war on terrorism?

Also Dan, you should learn more about the "Cold War" ;) because it was more just tension between the US and Russia over a nuclear attack than anything else :thumbsup: We never really went into any battles during the "Cold War" it was just a period of time when Russia thought we would "nuke" them and we thought the Russia was going to "nuke" us. No real fighting, only feelings of being afraid of what could happen since both nation's nuclear programs were moving full steam ahead!

 

But, Raider is correct, especially about WWII! Japan was not smart when they bombed Pearl Harbor and basically forced us into the war. We were not involved at the time, but after Dec 7, 1941, we had NO choice but to get involved!

 

Back on topic though, I keep hearing people say that this won't change anything with terrorism, and while that may be true, I want to repeat something I said a few pages ago: Leaders like Osama aren't all over the place! Al Quida has been around since the late 80's, and they didn't make a world-wide name for themselves until 2001 with the WTC bombings. Terrorist groups are only as dangerous as the man who organizes and leads them. We have removed one of the most dangerous with Bin Laden's death! Maybe another dangerous leader will step up, maybe not, but we at least handicapped them for the time being!

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I doubt very much that killing civilians was considered accepted, but it was a total war so civilians were enemies too. In any case, it was a shock tactic and it did save lives in the end.

Think of it like this; we bombed two cities. If we had invaded we'd have to attack more than two cities before they surrendered, and that means more civilian deaths and more of our men killed. Plus, the Emperor's generals would have still had some confidence from that because it's a tactic they expected and I'll bet we'd eventually have seen some Japanese soldiers coming at our men with only a sword, like a samurai. To annihilate a city with a single weapon that you cannot stop because you're air force is gone, they could not expect and only their prayers could stop the next one.

I truly hope that war was never considered just business back then, but given the choices, the atomic bombs were the least costly in lives with the highest likelihood of success. It was the correct business decision.

Trying to avoid civilian casualties is only a recent development in history. It wasn't until a few decade ago that it was considered unacceptable.

 

Thats right, lots of other areas were heavily bombed, it was a tactic designed to demoralize the nation, and destroy its infrastructure. Have you ever heard of the Blitz, or the allied bombings of Germany? They just flattened anything they deemed important to the war effort, and if a few thousand civilians got in the way, well they were casualties of war. The main targets for the bombings were economic centers, (destroy the infrastructure), railways, military bases and encampments, and most of those objectives mean lots of people.

Read atleast the introduction to the following article from Wikipedia.

I could have told that off the top of my head: I've always had a knack for history, which unfortunately I don't have for calculus (calc 3 final in two days :ph34r: ). I was just trying to keep it simple to get to the point better.

 

And since people keep bringing up Pearl Harbor, it wasn't entirely the Japanese's fault for bombing Pearl Harbor. We forced them into doing something with all the embargo's that we and our allies put up against them. The last thing the Japanese wanted was to get into a war with us. They just wanted to be able to have free reign in the Western Pacific so they wouldn't be driven to the brink of economic collapse, which we almost did by the way.

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Ok guy's I think we should cool it down a wee bit after the last few pages and get back on topic . No flaming someone whether they beleive in a conspiracy or not

So lets continue with a civil discussion gentlemen :)

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how many considering most people were killed at the harbor itself? a few thousand v a few hundred thousand either way innocent people died... japan was the perfect place to test the new weapon... so is america always(not that always) in a war these past few centuries? i mean first it was the first world war then second then cold war then the ones in middle east and war on terrorism?

I think most people agree that the US has a nasty habit of getting involved in wars. Here is a decent list of all the wars the US has been through. That seems to just be what are considered wars though, it doesn't mention smaller stuff, like Somalia for example, probably because that either wasn't intended as a war or it's just considered a minor conflict. Regardless, we have a lot of minor conflicts as well.

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Also Dan, you should learn more about the "Cold War" ;) because it was more just tension between the US and Russia over a nuclear attack than anything else :thumbsup: We never really went into any battles during the "Cold War" it was just a period of time when Russia thought we would "nuke" them and we thought the Russia was going to "nuke" us. No real fighting, only feelings of being afraid of what could happen since both nation's nuclear programs were moving full steam ahead!

 

But, Raider is correct, especially about WWII! Japan was not smart when they bombed Pearl Harbor and basically forced us into the war. We were not involved at the time, but after Dec 7, 1941, we had NO choice but to get involved!

 

Back on topic though, I keep hearing people say that this won't change anything with terrorism, and while that may be true, I want to repeat something I said a few pages ago: Leaders like Osama aren't all over the place! Al Quida has been around since the late 80's, and they didn't make a world-wide name for themselves until 2001 with the WTC bombings. Terrorist groups are only as dangerous as the man who organizes and leads them. We have removed one of the most dangerous with Bin Laden's death! Maybe another dangerous leader will step up, maybe not, but we at least handicapped them for the time being!

 

yeah i know i was gonna put that in the pearly harbor post but i had to goo back to school... i know what the cold war was lol but that might teach somebody else! terrorists do what they do cause of religious beliefs right(not the other ones with other reasons), many governments terrorize people so does that make em terrorists? its a shame they don't put other things such as the pirates in somalia and other stuff into focus...

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I think most people agree that the US has a nasty habit of getting involved in wars. Here is a decent list of all the wars the US has been through. That seems to just be what are considered wars though, it doesn't mention smaller stuff, like Somalia for example, probably because that either wasn't intended as a war or it's just considered a minor conflict. Regardless, we have a lot of minor conflicts as well.

Thats a pretty small list compared to many other countries rolleyes.gif

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Thats a pretty small list compared to many other countries rolleyes.gif

Such as? You could actually make this constructive conversation instead of stating half a sentence with a rolling eyes smiley face.

 

I posted that because Dan the Gamer was correct, our country has been in almost constant conflicts or wars since WW2 really. A lot of those are ones we didn't actually need to be involved in by the way. We kind of go looking for trouble.

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We kind of go looking for trouble.

I tend to think of it the other way around - trouble tends to find us. :P

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Trouble is an unintended consequence of trying to control outcomes far from home.

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Trouble is an unintended consequence of trying to control outcomes far from home.

Ya and drunk drivers get behind the wheel and end up with unintended consequences as well. :lol:

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Its called history. The US hasn't been in as many wars as most other countries. And not many of them we went in just for craps and giggles. We were either provoked or it was in our best interest to get involved.

 

For every war you can list we maybe shouldn't have been in, theres many more that can be listed for France, Germany, England, Italy...Poland...etc. War isn't a recent thing that the US invented. Its been going on since people could only poke each other with sticks.

 

If you want to have a constructive conversation about history...you're going to have to actually go off facts. Not bland baseless comments like "our country has been in almost constant conflicts or wars since WW2"

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For every war you can list we maybe shouldn't have been in, theres many more that can be listed for France, Germany, England, Italy...Poland...etc. War isn't a recent thing that the US invented. Its been going on since people could only poke each other with sticks.

 

If you want to have a constructive conversation about history...you're going to have to actually go off facts. Not bland baseless comments like "our country has been in almost constant conflicts or wars since WW2"

I didn't say the US invented it, you're just making things up now.

 

What exactly about the link I posted didn't give you impression that we've been in wars all this time? Each decade had at least 1 war, if not more, since WW2. That seems fairly consistent to me. I didn't post a baseless comment, as it's quite clear I based it on that link.

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