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CowKing

Osama Bin Laden is dead

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The problem with that is that it's the exact reason for why people are able to justify murder. I mean in Osama's eyes, 9/11 was a good thing, that was part of his belief, that doesn't actually make it right. What we believe in and we should actually do are completely different, morals are not subjective, opinions are though. If morals really were 100% subjective, it would be 100% impossible to say something is right or wrong because you would still be wrong every single time.

 

I don't think that Bubba was necessarily saying that it is a good thing that morals are subjective, only that they are! I mean I am raising my son with what I believe are good morals and differences between right and wrong. But, that doesn't mean that the next parent is doing the same! I know what you are saying Death, and Earth would be a much more simple place if morals were not subjective. But, that isn't the case because they are :cheers:

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The problem arises when people try to express their feelings and opinions as absolute facts, which a few here are guitly of :whistling: I am all about SCREAMING my feelings and opinions at the top of my lungs, and proudly :biggrin: But, I also know that they are just that, opinions ;) But, like you I am very glad that we did not parade his body or photos of his death around like the "barbarians" that we are not! Although we differ on the fact that I feel some satisfaction over the fact that he is dead and you do not, our opinions on the humanity issue when it comes to how our nation dealt with his death are very similiar :thumbsup: But, again, I am not a monster, a barbarian, or just like "them" for being relieved that Osama is no longer on this earth!

 

I personally feel good about it and feel relief that he's gone as do probably most people who posted or reading this thread that's not what the arguments been about it's been about people's decision to celibate over this or just be glad it happened and feel good it's made the world a better place and it's time to move on

Edited by fire_storm

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I don't care that he was killed either way, but I would have preferred he was put on trail.

 

Food for thought - When is the last time you saw a trial for an accused murderer who confessed?

 

Osama proudly took responsibilty for 9/11, his confession was broadcasted worldwide ;)

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There are some morals that aren't really subjective though, since everyone agrees on them. For example, and yes situations can occur to cause exceptions to these, but in general we all agree, that killing, lying, stealing and rape are wrong. (I can't think of anyway that rape being wrong could have an exception, and I really hope none of you can either.) There are probably others, but this is what came to mind just now.

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I don't care that he was killed either way, but I would have preferred he was put on trail.

Think about it logically. That was not going to happen.

Imagine how hard it would be to transport him, imprison him, fairly try him. He would have ended up in Guantamo for a while then let out on good behavior. :P Probably not but why spend tax payers money keeping him alive when he would be the subject of rescue attempts or martyrdom plots. He is better off dead, than in jail.

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There are some morals that aren't really subjective though, since everyone agrees on them. For example, and yes situations can occur to cause exceptions to these, but in general we all agree, that killing, lying, stealing and rape are wrong. (I can't think of anyway that rape being wrong could have an exception, and I really hope none of you can either.) There are probably others, but this is what came to mind just now.

This is basically what I mean with my morality argument, of course morals aren't thought of the same way by everyone but morals are still there to tell what is right or wrong. Morals are the conclusions of general opinions really. Everyone in general agrees that murder isn't a nice thing, so morally it's wrong.

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There are some morals that aren't really subjective though, since everyone agrees on them. For example, and yes situations can occur to cause exceptions to these, but in general we all agree, that killing, lying, stealing and rape are wrong. (I can't think of anyway that rape being wrong could have an exception, and I really hope none of you can either.) There are probably others, but this is what came to mind just now.

Your wrong. All of those are subjective, I can think of plenty of times lying, stealing, and killing are okay in my eyes. As for rape, I know that in certain Islamic cultures (and probably some other religions) there are conditions under which all of the blame for rape is put on the woman who was raped. Also I've heard people in fraternity's talk about having . with super drunk chicks which is technically rape. I think within the USA violent rape is almost universally despised but I unfortunately know that rape can be accepted by certain people, maybe not the kind of rape you're thinking of but it's still rape. So my point is they are subjective.

 

This is basically what I mean with my morality argument, of course morals aren't thought of the same way by everyone but morals are still there to tell what is right or wrong. Morals are the conclusions of general opinions really. Everyone in general agrees that murder isn't a nice thing, so morally it's wrong.

The golden rule

Edited by xchrissypoox

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Your wrong. All of those are subjective, I can think of plenty of times lying, stealing, and killing are okay in my eyes. As for rape, I know that in certain Islamic cultures (and probably some other religions) there are conditions under which all of the blame for rape is put on the woman who was raped. Also I've heard people in fraternity's talk about having . with super drunk chicks which is technically rape. I think within the USA violent rape is almost universally despised but I unfortunately know that rape can be accepted by certain people, maybe not the kind of rape you're thinking of but it's still rape. So my point is they are subjective.

 

 

The golden rule

Okay, let's lay out a scenario, I think it will help.

 

Girl: I don't rape!

 

Rapist: Well I do like rape.

 

Girl: OH NOES! HELP ME! HELP ME!

 

Bystander: Hmmm... that girl looks like she is in pain, but my religion really tells me it's her fault anyway, so it's okay to just let this happen.

 

Do you see how that works? Just because someone thinks differently, doesn't mean that it's okay.

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The problem with that is that it's the exact reason for why people are able to justify murder. I mean in Osama's eyes, 9/11 was a good thing, that was part of his belief, that doesn't actually make it right. What we believe in and we should actually do are completely different, morals are not subjective, opinions are though. If morals really were 100% subjective, it would be 100% impossible to say something is right or wrong because you would still be wrong every single time.

 

Its not murder when you are fired upon. Its protecting yourself. He could have just given himself up and gone to a trial in which he was found guilty of the murder of US citizens. Then what..... Either way he set himself up to be a martyr. The justification for his plots and actions have no basis other than to promote himself and a radical extension of the muslim faith. Its good to have something to lead your followers against so their minds are no longer preoccupied with the every day life and to promote becoming a martyr as a means of salvation and greater glory. Are all muslims bad and radical? Nope. Are all Catholic priests child molesters? Nope but they all get bundled up into stereotyped groups. When you deal with a corrupt world that plays both sides against the middle its going to come out bad. The mess in Afghanistan is one of our own making as the US tried to stem the spread of communism during the USSR's 10 year attempt to move in.

 

I don't care that he was killed either way, but I would have preferred he was put on trail.

 

His trial was played out in public. He got no less than he deserved for the planning and murder of over 300 lives in a very public forum. He could have given up.........but he didnt and chose to use a woman as a human shield....

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I wish that we had gotten him alive simply so we could throw him in prison cell and leave him to rot like the French did with Carlos the jackal. That way he couldn't be considered a martyr.

 

This is basically what I mean with my morality argument, of course morals aren't thought of the same way by everyone but morals are still there to tell what is right or wrong. Morals are the conclusions of general opinions really. Everyone in general agrees that murder isn't a nice thing, so morally it's wrong.

Just because people consider something to be moral doesn't mean it's right. In most muslim countries not only is it considered morally righteous to execute apostates it's considered immoral not to do so. Does most of their culture believing it to be moral make it right? I don't think so.

 

Morality is nothing more than a place on the scale between good and evil as considered by society. Please don't go thinking that something being moral makes it right.

 

Basically, watch this video and you'll see what I mean.

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Didn't read the thread but just wanted to chime in.

 

We are still at war, and though we pulled out of Iraq (still have troops to train the Iraqi Army and police force), we are heavily in Afghanistan. And what else? Hello Libya, which could have not escalated, but what did we do this weekend? Killed the son of the leader of that country. Sounds like a nice way to enter yet another war on "terrorism." The war is nowhere close to ending, and though we killed Osama, our military intelligence couldn't track him for ten years, and then think he is hiding in a remote location of caves. Where does he turn out to be? A mansion. Enough said.

 

Either way, congrats to the brave Navy Seals who took him out, but there is much more ahead, and this is more of a war against oil ownership than terrorism itself. There will always be terrorists, just like there will always be crime in the United States itself. Picking which ones to "police" is another issue, one that the government will never think about since they want to be the police of the world.

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