Fair Tax Act of 2011

[wevsspot]

It's more of an economic principle really. Adding a sales tax changes the demand curve and less people are willing to pay for a given product. You would have to take an economics class to understand it better because I'm probably explaining it horribly.

Since roughly 63% of the discretionary purchases we make are of products manufactured in places other than the United States - I don't know if that is such a bad thing...............................

[TheHippi]

I have had economics. It may change how much they pay for an item but they have more income. It's not like adding a sales tax when an income tax is still in place.

I suppose so. It's just that I think we need to fix our income tax system first before we just get rid of it.

Since roughly 63% of the discretionary purchases we make are of products manufactured in places other than the United States - I don't know if that is such a bad thing...............................

That's another thing we need to fix, and we do it by taxing the hell out of imports. We end up spending more money, but all of that money stays here. It doesn't end up in China or Nicaragua or some other cheap labor country.

[fire_storm]

Would also encourage saving your money and earning interest on it, instead of spending right away.

 

At today's interest rates you'd have to put a ton of money in the bank in order to make any kind of noticeable interest on it.

 

The only good reason to put your money in the bank is it is a safe place to keep it otherwise it's just a ripoff how most banks only give you around .20% - .40% interest rate on your money at then take that money at get 4%-5% or more from one of there loans.

 

I think that d3bruts offers the best solution.

 

But to expand;

 

1. Exit the UN and end all contributions

2. Cap the amount of yearly foreign aid dollars the U.S. spends (that means the money that individuals and corporations pay for taxes that get shelled out to other countries)

3. Stop meddling in other countries and gracefully exit/end all of our "wars"

4. Invest the money being spent on the UN, Foreign Aid and the war and use it to promote domestic energy sustainability of all forms, fossil fuels, coal, natural gas, solar, wind nuclear etc.

5. Offer incentives to the oil and automotive industries to develop, engineer and produce zero footprint transporation modes - in the styles, sizes, features and performance capabilities that the American consumer would desire

 

Wouldn't work the USA meddles in other countries affairs in order to keep the world at peace which is good for the stability of the country and the economy and the citizens.

 

Otherwise just think what would of happened in WW2 if we let Germany take Europe and Japan run through Asian it would have only been a matter of time before they came over hear.

[flareback]

I suppose so. It's just that I think we need to fix our income tax system first before we just get rid of it.

How should we fix it?

 

At today's interest rates you'd have to put a ton of money in the bank in order to make any kind of noticeable interest on it. The only good reason to put your money in the bank is it is a safe place to keep it otherwise it's just a ripoff how most banks only give you around .20% - .40% interest rate on your money at then take that money at get 4%-5% or more from one of there loans.

Banks aren't the only place to save money, there are also stocks and such that will earn much better. Interest rates aren't always this low and I don't think they will always stay this low (I'm actually getting .9%, not that that refutes your argument). You'll always get less in interest than you pay in interest because the bank uses your money to make money. If you made the same as people paid in interest the bank wouldn't make any money.

 

Wouldn't work the USA meddles in other countries affairs in order to keep the world at peace which is good for the stability of the country and the economy and the citizens.

 

Otherwise just think what would of happened in WW2 if we let Germany take Europe and Japan run through Asian it would have only been a matter of time before they came over hear.

I personally don't think we should meddle as much as we do. We could save ourselves a lot of money by cutting money that we give to other nations. I don't think as much of it goes to help the people of other nations as what most Americans think. I was talking to a guy from Egypt the other day and he said the government kept it all.

[LoArmistead]

I am in favor of a national sales tax to replace the income tax. According to Boortz the sales tax rate would need to be something like 23% for the tax to be revenue neutral to the income tax. "Realistically," I think the federal government should be of a constitutional size and scope, and that it FAR exceeds that today. The government could be reduced by 3/4 and still be able to fulfill its obligations as outlined in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. Therefore, I voted for a 7.5% national sales tax. That should be more than enough for the government to do its job. The money left in the pockets of the folks who earned it can be spent however they see fit - retirement, savings, capital investment, wasted on hookers and blow, I don't care. It's their money.

[LoArmistead]

Of course Congress will never relinquish the income tax because then they won't be able to control us. They won't be able to tell us what we can and can not do, and they won't be able to engineer society to their liking. We will be free to live our lives as we see fit, and they will be powerless to stop us. Politicians hate free people doing what they want.

 

A couple of false assumptions being made early on:

 

1) A progressive income tax lessens the distribution of wealth to the upper class

2) A higher income tax rate decreases upper class corruption

 

As the income tax becomes more arbitrary and restrictive, income accumulates in the upper classes. Increasing tax rates will only lead to further accumulation of wealth into the hands of the few.

 

A higher income tax rate increases the incentive for the upper class to hide its money. If you owe $10 million in taxes and it will cost you $5 million to store it offshore, it's cheaper to evade the tax. If taxes are $4 million and it costs $5 million to store it offshore, it's cheaper to pay the tax.

 

The only way to do away with corruption is to remove the economic incentives that create it. The more money going to Washington from the highest wage earners, i.e. the most powerful people, the more they embed themselves with Washington to win political favors, which in turn creates more corruption.

[fire_storm]

Banks aren't the only place to save money, there are also stocks and such that will earn much better. Interest rates aren't always this low and I don't think they will always stay this low (I'm actually getting .9%, not that that refutes your argument). You'll always get less in interest than you pay in interest because the bank uses your money to make money. If you made the same as people paid in interest the bank wouldn't make any money.

 

Stocks are risky and just like most finical investments unless you have a lot of money to invest you don't get a lot of money in return unless of course you find that stock that starts extremely low and jumps up a ton.

 

I personally don't think we should meddle as much as we do. We could save ourselves a lot of money by cutting money that we give to other nations. I don't think as much of it goes to help the people of other nations as what most Americans think. I was talking to a guy from Egypt the other day and he said the government kept it all.

 

Like I said before the USA gives other countries money for more reasons other then just for humanitarian reasons and capital improvement. For example we gave money to Egypt and supported them until recently because although the Egypt government wasn't the best guys in town the government felt it was better that we support someone who some what agrees with us rather than have that country fall apart and turn into a big threat like NK or Iran.

 

The point is we have to be on the offensive we can't just hide in our part of the world and hope nothing bad is going to happen if you don't talk to or bother anyone they will come eventually and it's better to deal with problems while there small then to take on a huge one.

Edited March 10, 2011 by fire_storm

[LoArmistead]

It's more of an economic principle really. Adding a sales tax changes the demand curve and less people are willing to pay for a given product. You would have to take an economics class to understand it better because I'm probably explaining it horribly.

 

There have been a lot of studies that have shown just the opposite. Income taxes have been show to reduce aggregate demand, while excise taxes have had less of an effect on aggregate demand. I'm in favor of a national sales tax out of principle because: everyone who buys a new good will pay it, and everyone will know exactly how much they pay because it will be a line item on their receipt.

[IVIYTH0S]

I'm down with this, it makes alot of sense.

voted for 20%

[Locutus]

I think that we need to lower taxes for people who make less than a few hundred thousand a year and get rid of all the loopholes for the rich before we get rid of income taxes. Sales taxes in general are bad for economies.

 

 

The best way to solve that is to re-open the border's and let people who want to live in America live here, like the way it used to be.

I'm all for immigrants and green cards.

 

BUT I DIGRESS...

 

Like I was saying, if there is a flat tax then EVERYONE would have to pay, but only when they make purchases. Illegal immigrants wouldn't be dodging taxes anymore, and even if they send half of it back home they are still going to be paying for food, water, electricity, rent, etc. so they would still be taxed.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Locutus

[LoArmistead]

And if someone didn't want any of their money to go to the government, they could buy everything in the second-hand market. Only new goods are taxed in the FairTax. Used goods and private sales are tax-free.

 

I'd be buying a lot of used goods. Used cars, used appliances, used toilet paper, used underwear... the possibilities are endless.

[SpeedCrazy]

And if someone didn't want any of their money to go to the government, they could buy everything in the second-hand market. Only new goods are taxed in the FairTax. Used goods and private sales are tax-free.

 

I'd be buying a lot of used goods. Used cars, used appliances, used toilet paper, used underwear... the possibilities are endless.

Wouldn't that pressure alot of people to stop buying new goods and therefore take more money out of the business sector? Oh wait... thats a good thing. That would also work towards green initiatives, no more waste just sell it second hand, though personally i would not go as far as toilet paper.