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1/3 of students in their senior year caught cheating.

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The thing is, I see some truth in every point here. If you're cheating at medicine or brain surgery then are you morally, ethically, a murderer?

 

On the other hand as Death said, in most cases college and university are just used as tools to get a piece of paper that shows you're a cut-above-the-rest. Here in the UK it's no exception.

 

Something you also might want to consider is that classes and courses need to be completed in a set amount of time, otherwise you fail completely and the stuff you already know is wasted unless you redo the entire course aaaaall over again. And I don't know of a single place that extends the time you get to complete these courses. Cheating might not prove that you are incapable, or stupid, or incompetant. It might just mean you need the extra time that isn't available to you, which you can (possibly) research and learn about post-graduation. There are some smart people out there who've not completed university for a whole host of reasons, who outside of the paperwork, are just as good as those who have qualified.

 

Life is a funny thing. You need to do what needs to be done to survive, but does that mean that cheating is a viable option in ANY case at all? I honestly can't answer that question.

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A lot of people cheat, lie, steal, etc. It's the ones that get caught that fail. I think it's good to be able to catch cheaters at Universities, it makes it so that the ones that don't get caught are also ready for the real world in Kevin's point of view. It's a win-win! :P

 

I don't have a college degree, and I'm doing well for myself because I can learn on my own and I don't have to pay off debts from having to pay a horrendous tuition. I never had to cheat, lie, or steal to get where I'm at, and personally, if you find yourself working a profession where you lied to get in and stay in that profession, my belief is that you'll learn pretty quick if you want to stay in that profession. I've had two opportunities where I had no practical experience, but my other skills and knowledge was enough to get me in the door. I had to learned on the go, and if I didn't measure up, I'd be out the door in two weeks. That's the real world test, and not an exam from a University. You can cheat tests, but you can't cheat accomplishments.

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yes I am only good cause of consequences, if not for laws and punishment this world would be a little rougher around the edges.

 

AGAIN I am not saying cheating is good and this doctor example is getting tired but yes I do want the doctor with 0 scruples that got a A+ and will do anything to save me when I am on the table not the guy who tried real hard and got a B-.

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yes I am only good cause of consequences, if not for laws and punishment this world would be a little rougher around the edges.

 

AGAIN I am not saying cheating is good and this doctor example is getting tired but yes I do want the doctor with 0 scruples that got a A+ and will do anything to save me when I am on the table not the guy who tried real hard and got a B-.

You guys do know that we've had American President's without college degrees - which includes George Washington and Abraham Lincoln? George W. Bush was also an average C student at Yale (never got an A, a D, or an F), and got into Yale with a 1206 SAT score.

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I guess it would help to know what kind of test it was. If it were short answers or something like that then maybe. If it were multiple choice, no way in hell you could prove anything.

Actually, you could prove it if it was multiple choice. You could use a confidence test to find the probability that someone cheated, and if the probability is very high, say 98% or greater, that is probably good enough to convince an academic honesty board that the person cheated.

 

yes I am only good cause of consequences, if not for laws and punishment this world would be a little rougher around the edges.

 

AGAIN I am not saying cheating is good and this doctor example is getting tired but yes I do want the doctor with 0 scruples that got a A+ and will do anything to save me when I am on the table not the guy who tried real hard and got a B-.

The guy who actually worked for his grade might have learned something, whereas the guy who cheated probably didn't learn anything. A grade is just some writing on a piece of paper.

 

There are some jobs out there you probably don't need to have learned anything in college, I'll give you that. But I as an engineer do have to know a lot of stuff to do my job. And it kind of pisses me off to see people who don't work for what they get. Maybe it's just me being selfish, if you don't do the work to accomplish something, you don't deserve what you get.

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Something you also might want to consider is that classes and courses need to be completed in a set amount of time, otherwise you fail completely and the stuff you already know is wasted unless you redo the entire course aaaaall over again. And I don't know of a single place that extends the time you get to complete these courses. Cheating might not prove that you are incapable, or stupid, or incompetant. It might just mean you need the extra time that isn't available to you, which you can (possibly) research and learn about post-graduation. There are some smart people out there who've not completed university for a whole host of reasons, who outside of the paperwork, are just as good as those who have qualified.

While this is a good point i know that a good number of college students do have the time but spend it doing other things, i know i have all day to study but i often end up cramming or skipping cause i goofed off, played games or got off track.

 

I never had to cheat, lie, or steal to get where I'm at

If i am ever at the point where i have to lie, cheat or steal to keep my job i will know im working the wrong job. People who enjoy their jobs and really give their all to it are the ones who progress and move up.

For example; say im a structural engineer if i have to look up how to construct a certain structure every time i need to build one how am i ever going to come up with new more efficient designs. (hope i did not show my ignorance too much. I haven't a clue what a structural engineer does, i just guessed from the name)

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Ok, let's put it this way.

 

You go to college. You work your butt off, achieve a 3.5 average and graduate with a BS.

 

One of your friends parties, goofs off and cheats. Gets the same average and degree.

 

 

How does that make you feel? Kinda reduces the perceived value of your degree, right? And people wonder why Bachelors don't really mean much nowadays... :doh:

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i don't believe my eyes and ears:

there is no meaningful argument for cheating, no worthwhile rationalization, no excuse or justification for cheating period...

anyone found to be engaging in any kind of cheating in any walk of life, whether it be schools or city of bell ca. managers, politics, medicine, finance, etc., are immediately removed and expelled and prohibited from engaging in that type of endeavor ever again...their names are ruined and they are associated with the lowest of the low, because cheating is corrupt and immoral and deemed unacceptable behavior in our society...

cheating students must be expelled as soon as their misdeed is uncovered. there is no room for cheating in our society.

...and now i feel like there is a strong need for several semesters of ethics to be taught at the high school and college levels as a requirement for gradation...

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i don't believe my eyes and ears:

there is no meaningful argument for cheating, no worthwhile rationalization, no excuse or justification for cheating period...

anyone found to be engaging in any kind of cheating in any walk of life, whether it be schools or city of bell ca. managers, politics, medicine, finance, etc., are immediately removed and expelled and prohibited from engaging in that type of endeavor ever again...their names are ruined and they are associated with the lowest of the low, because cheating is corrupt and immoral and deemed unacceptable behavior in our society...

cheating students must be expelled as soon as their misdeed is uncovered. there is no room for cheating in our society.

...and now i feel like there is a strong need for several semesters of ethics to be taught at the high school and college levels as a requirement for gradation...

Catching cheaters creates jobs. :P

 

I'd like to create a college course on how to cheat effectively. No one gets an A unless they cheated and didn't get caught... but those that do get an A fail because that means they cheated and are now caught (Catch 22). Those that keep it in the B range pass exceptionally. :)

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i don't believe my eyes and ears:

there is no meaningful argument for cheating, no worthwhile rationalization, no excuse or justification for cheating period...

anyone found to be engaging in any kind of cheating in any walk of life, whether it be schools or city of bell ca. managers, politics, medicine, finance, etc., are immediately removed and expelled and prohibited from engaging in that type of endeavor ever again...their names are ruined and they are associated with the lowest of the low, because cheating is corrupt and immoral and deemed unacceptable behavior in our society...

cheating students must be expelled as soon as their misdeed is uncovered. there is no room for cheating in our society.

...and now i feel like there is a strong need for several semesters of ethics to be taught at the high school and college levels as a requirement for gradation...

I agree entirely.

If you pay through the nose to get to college and cheat what was the point in paying for all that tuition?

 

Catching cheaters creates jobs. :P

 

I'd like to create a college course on how to cheat effectively. No one gets an A unless they cheated and didn't get caught... but those that do get an A fail because that means they cheated and are now caught (Catch 22). Those that keep it in the B range pass exceptionally. :)

:haha: Only i would make it that only those who get a C (absolutely see through cheating) would even graduate the course.

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Actually, you could prove it if it was multiple choice. You could use a confidence test to find the probability that someone cheated, and if the probability is very high, say 98% or greater, that is probably good enough to convince an academic honesty board that the person cheated.

 

 

The guy who actually worked for his grade might have learned something, whereas the guy who cheated probably didn't learn anything. A grade is just some writing on a piece of paper.

 

There are some jobs out there you probably don't need to have learned anything in college, I'll give you that. But I as an engineer do have to know a lot of stuff to do my job. And it kind of pisses me off to see people who don't work for what they get. Maybe it's just me being selfish, if you don't do the work to accomplish something, you don't deserve what you get.

 

why dose everyone assume that if you cheated you learned nothing ? maybe the cheaters went from a B to a A- . And like the other poster said they just needed a extra week to get the material down . why should they have to retake the course

 

cheating is risk taking , everyone dose it . saying you never cheated lied or stole in your life is ridiculous. ya that means all the ppl in here who said that , I'm talking to you. I prob lied 5 times yesterday at least.

 

you never .....

told your woman she looked good when you thought she didnt ?

found $20 on the ground and just put it in ur pocket ?

recived a 69 on a test and when you were asked you said 70 ?

created a resume that said you worked well with others and alone ?

and any of the other millions of lies we tell every day

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