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Miek

Anyone trained in self defense?

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I have a black belt in preventing a cow from kicking over the bucket when being milked.

I was nearing my Master's rank at keeping milker's on spastic goats before moving out :P.

 

I know enough Modern Army Combative's to get my butt handed to me if I tried going against someone with any knowledge, 9th Geup in Tang Soo Do, with a little bit of weapons defense mixed in courtesy of my instructors. Just returned to Tang Soo Do, hoping to make 8th Geup in about six months. 1st Dan in 10 years if I get the time to train enough for it. Soonest anyone's ever gotten a black belt in our Assoication is 6 1/2 years, and she did two hours a night of formal training every night. Two year black belts make me laugh.

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I have studied martial arts from the time I could walk. They are great for exercise and from a sporting perspective, however your more common styles like Karate and TKD are nearly useless in real life situations. Krav Maga, BJJ, etc styles are much more effective as a real life self defense.

 

From what I hear old school Karate and especially TKD used to be extremely effective and completely different than what you see nowadays, but sadly that was before my time. My masters reminisce about the good old days a lot and tell me stories of old schools/masters they used to know. From their stories it sounds like most of the martial arts have been watered down quite a bit over the years. Many styles used to have a complete art to study:

 

- Boxing (what's taught in schools these days)

- Wresting and Ground Boxing (E.g. Shuai Jiao)

- Aerial Fighting

- Submission Moves (standing/ground - E.g. Chin Na)

- Medicine

 

We didn't learn anything as far as Aerial techniques go in Chu Gar. That doesn't bother much though, but I personally would have loved to learn more Shuai Jiao and Chin Na as I found them very fun and challenging. :cry: Shuai Jiao is far more advanced and lethal than BJJ, but wouldn't mind getting into BJJ at some point - definitely would have if i had gone into MMA.

Edited by Fogel

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From what I hear old school Karate and especially TKD used to be extremely effective and completely different than what you see nowadays, but sadly that was before my time. My masters reminisce about the good old days a lot and tell me stories of old schools/masters they used to know. From their stories it sounds like most of the martial arts have been watered down quite a bit over the years.

The reason it was different and effective is because up until those "old school" times, the nations that developed/practiced the martial arts were in conflict often. The martial arts were designed to kill with the maximum efficeincy possible. Many of the "high fliying" moves/move sets were developed as a form of intimidation (that could also do some serious damage). However, many martial arts have changed to being more based on sport so that two people can spar in a competition without someone dying.

 

I'm pretty sure that there are a few places left in the world where the "designed to kill" styles are still practiced, though out of sight (for the most part) from the major part of the world.

 

I remember watching something on Discovery: China about Shaolin style Kung Fu where they actually took a look at monks that still practiced the old style of Kung Fu and Wushu (using weapons). It was awe inspiring, but at the same time it made me glad that monks would never be the aggressor. They were taught to only ever fight if attacked.

Edited by Miek

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Well there are a lot of reasons martial arts have been watered down - but the quickest answer (which sums up your post) is... the world has changed

 


  1.  
  2. People no longer have the time to dedicate to training like they used to
     
  3. The need to overthrow governments isn't what it used to be
     
  4. Many of the martial art instructors don't trust today's youth with their knowledge. For example you bring up martial arts that are used to kill with. Chu Gar is an extremely rare martial art that you can't just find anywhere. It suffers three main problems: 1) The Hakka people didn't trust any non-Hakka to learn the art till mid-late 1900s, 2) It's only purpose is to kill as quickly as possible (the mantra is 3 seconds or less), and 3) it gives the practitioner an inner fire that can make them very confrontational --- So most Chu Gar masters refuse to teach anyone the style and would prefer to see the style fade out. Those that do teach it leave out many of the advanced techniques to only their most trusted disciples and every master always keeps something to themselves ...furthering the watered out effect
     
  5. In some countries (China especially) they beheaded many of the old martial art masters to avoid possible rebellions and many of the old iron dummies and scrolls that contained detailed knowledge of the human body were destroyed ...which is a shame because they had information that today's doctors could learn from
     
  6. And students are just plain lazy these days compared to back then and are not willing to put up with the pain. Not to mention most don't learn it for the art anymore but care only for being a "black belt". But that's a whole other rant I could get into. :ouch: I hate to say it but ALL traditional martial arts had a need for an extreme tolerance for pain. Including Tai Chi which people today think was designed to be relaxing, but it was originally designed to be both hard and soft - hence the yin yang symbol

Edited by Fogel

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I have studied martial arts from the time I could walk. They are great for exercise and from a sporting perspective, however your more common styles like Karate and TKD are nearly useless in real life situations. Krav Maga, BJJ, etc styles are much more effective as a real life self defense.

For me it was learning the basics as well as the discipline which helped me the most.

 

For example, your average middle-school kid goes into a fight with his hands flailing around, hoping he hits something. But just learning the right technique to deliver the punches was good enough for me to fend off the idiots.

 

And now that I think of it, Fogel is right. Learning how to take a blow to the face or chest without crying and screaming and running away in anguish...well that really helps.

Edited by Locutus

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I took wing chun style kung fu for about a month but I didnt stick with it but wish I did. i also took a little karate as a kid but dont remember anything from that.

If I had the time I'd take more of that kung fu

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The almost obligatory brief stint in karate as a kid, which might as well be the same as saying, "No." While I have spent a bit of time researching what goes into some of what I think are the more interesting fighting styles out there (I am particularly enamored with Krav Maga and would LOVE to get some actual training, although time will not allow currently) I have no formal training of any kind. Personally I'm not one for fair fights, as "bad" as that may sound. I'm of the "bring a knife to a fist fight and a gun to a knife fight" mentality. No real reason to fight "fair" when you can just bring the overwhelming advantage with you. Granted, I'm not talking about any kind of sport involving fighting (MMA, boxing, etc.). Luckily my over-preparedness has never been justified by any real life situation. I do, however, think Sun Tzu was onto something when he wrote "The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory." Of course being armed never ensures victory in any situation, but it most certainly will decrease the risk of overwhelming defeat. So, yeah, not a big fan of "fair fights." I think it should be noted that I would in almost any situation submit to an @ss-whooping before I would pull a gun on an otherwise unarmed individual. I'm certainly not trying to justify brandishing weapons against unarmed individuals. While a beating is far from preferable, I think it's pretty safe to say that most courts of law in our nation would not be too inclined to look kindly on any person who shoots an unarmed citizen merely because he threatened him with a shaking fist. Personally, I think if you're at peace with threatening someone with violence, whether using a weapon or merely your bare hands, then you should not be surprised if the person you hope to victimize pulls an even bigger stick on you. I tend to refer to that as karma.

 

I think if there's any moral to be found it might be that it's better to make love than war, but only a great fool would confuse their own personal morality with a set of values shared by the rest of society. Hope for the best but always, always prepare for the worst.

 

But yeah, mad props to those with the devotion and desire to train themselves in self-defense techniques. As with any form of exercise the benefits for both the body and the mind are hard to deny. The techniques, their application and their implications are merely icing on the cake, I think.

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I've not studied a martial art, but I used to fence competitively, foil and sabre, so I'm pretty handy with a stick :P

 

Luckily, I live in a part of the world where it's relatively safe - there isn't a part of the city I live in I'd be afraid to go at any time of day... I would like to learn something one day though, when I have time.

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I've not studied a martial art, but I used to fence competitively, foil and sabre, so I'm pretty handy with a stick :P

 

Luckily, I live in a part of the world where it's relatively safe - there isn't a part of the city I live in I'd be afraid to go at any time of day... I would like to learn something one day though, when I have time.

 

I always wanted to try fencing! Seemed like a somewhat useless skill nowadays, but badass nonetheless. Ah, maybe one day. Just think, though, were you to fall into some sort of space-time distortion that transported you back to the 14th century then you'd at least be more able to defend yourself than if u hadn't studied fencing!

 

Also, I'm fairly sure fencing could be considered a martial art. It has martial applications, after all.

Edited by Bizzlenitch

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I always wanted to try fencing! Seemed like a somewhat useless skill nowadays, but badass nonetheless. Ah, maybe one day. Just think, though, were you to fall into some sort of space-time distortion that transported you back to the 14th century then you'd at least be more able to defend yourself than if u hadn't studied fencing!

 

It's incredibly good to keep fit though! When I stopped fencing regularly, because my body was so used to it I found it so hard to not put on weight, even eating really healthily! yucky.gif

 

I'd have to take my own sword with me if I was transported back, they didn't have pistol-grip back then, and I can't use French style swords!

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Apparently Krav Maga is good for fitness as well. I could do with some exercise... Ever since I quite TKD, I no longer look "toned" and I'm starting to grow some flab around my waist. >.>

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