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Rokkaholik

Arizona On A Mission: No More "Anchor Babies"

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The laws that Arizona is trying to pass are the due process.....

 

Due process applies when one is going to be deprived of "life, liberty, and property." This mean if you plan on punishing someone by sticking somebody in jail, fining or taking away their possessions, or giving them the death sentence. This does not apply to citizenship, especially since we don't have laws that can strip one of their citizenship as punishment for a crime. Even with treason, as you take your final breath during your capital punishment, you are still a citizen of the United States.

 

Now, the first law Arizona passed is certainly all about due process since it involves getting stopped and being questioned by an officer, and the law may or may not be unconstitutional. However, this new proposal most certainly will be since it blatantly contradicts the language of the Fourteenth Amendment. Also, it has nothing to do wih due process since taking away citizenship is not something you can do. The most Arizona could do is take away state citizenship, but these children will still be US citizens.

 

Its simply an illogical statement if you have even the most basic concept of how income tax works. Each individual that pays income tax does so by their SSN. Illegals don't have SSN's so how are they supposed to pay taxes? Ergo legal citizens pay more taxes than illegals. I don't know how you can paint it any other way.

 

I really don't care that much unless I sit down and think about how much of MY money the government spends on stupid ^%#$ that I they have no business spending money on. And the fact that the government is only expanding, never using any sort of moderation or any consideration that they may have to increase taxes or cut money from critical areas to fund pet projects, they simply don't care about us anymore as they are completely out of touch.....but I guess that's what makes me a conservative and you guys whatever you are and we will always be at odds. :)

 

You cannot merely say that it is illogical just because you cannot comprehend reality. I provided sources that show illegal aliens DO pay taxes. Now you show me sources where they do not. I'm certain you can't since the facts are in my favor, in which case admit that you are wrong and accept the fact that your viewpoint on this subject is flawed.

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Kash, I'm interested in your take on my last post, that they are saying they are not subject to our jurisdiction, and therefore this does not apply to them.

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You cannot merely say that it is illogical just because you cannot comprehend reality. I provided sources that show illegal aliens DO pay taxes. Now you show me sources where they do not. I'm certain you can't since the facts are in my favor, in which case admit that you are wrong and accept the fact that your viewpoint on this subject is flawed.

So you want me to provide tax documentation for people that don't exist on paper otherwise I don't have any ground to stand on? Yeah sure *sarcasm*.

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"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."

 

This is the part AZ is fighting. They are treating them like we treat ambassadors. When ambassadors have children in the US, they are not considered US citizens because the parents are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Neither are illegal immigrants.

 

 

Kash, I'm interested in your take on my last post, that they are saying they are not subject to our jurisdiction, and therefore this does not apply to them.

 

Courts have interpreted that phrase of the Citizenship Clause to simply mean that people who qualify to become US citizens are under the purview of the federal government. As you said, this was meant to exclude the children of ambassadors and interestingly, Native Americans. However, courts have repeatedly held that other foreigners who come to this country and give birth, their kids are most definitely citizens of the US. The first case was US v. Wong Kim Ark, which stated that the children of illegal Chinese immigrants were automatically granted US citizenship. There are several later cases that have referenced this case, solidifying the fact that it is valid precedence and thereby, the current law.

 

Arizona can try and equate illegal immigrants to ambassadors all they want, but decades of court precedent is going against them and they undoubtedly will fail.

 

So you want me to provide tax documentation for people that don't exist on paper otherwise I don't have any ground to stand on? Yeah sure *sarcasm*.

 

No, I want you to show me whether there is a tax drain on the system because of illegal aliens. Surely if this is such a big problem you should be able to find ample evidence of it. However, the fact that you transformed my simple request into an impossible one seems to indicate that you're clearly not capable of this higher level of debate and would much rather ramble on in platitudes.

 

Also, keep in mind that while illegal immigrants get paid under the table, they all have to pay sales tax on everything they purchase. So even if we assume that your assertion that no illegal immigrant pays income tax, they're not a complete burden on society as you claim.

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Kash I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that "illegals pay taxes" as though it is the norm simply because a couple illegals did an interview for msnbc and there is money being paid to the Feds for which the source is unaccounted. You provided sources that say SOME illegals pay taxes. That fact in no way proves or disproves that illegals may or may not be a drain on the US. To draw a definitive conclusion from those articles is sketchy at best.

 

A simple google search will show that illegals from Mexico send upwards of $15 billion back to Mexico each year. Simple math indicates to me that we are now at a net loss of at least $6 billion and that is before accounting for any of the services such as schools and medical services that illegals receive.

 

 

And whether illegals are a plus or minus to the economy as a whole is irrelevant to the incredibly simple fact that they are breaking this country's laws. I've got no problem with them coming here and living and working. I'd just prefer that mechanisms we have in place for immigration are followed.

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Camaro, may I suggest you go back and read post #20

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Ok...I just reread that and I guess we're in agreement? The last part of your post is worded a bit ambiguously and I suppose I read it differently from what you intended...

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Hmm, interesting topic. I disagree with some of it. But here is where my opinions stand.

 

There needs to be a wall 50 feet thick and 200 feet tall (about 75 feet buried underground) from the border in Cali to the end of the boarder in Texas. And from the edge of Washington to Maine Just so no-one can pull out the race card.

 

I am a US Citizen therefor I follow the law.... Someone crosses the Fence illegally, Finds a home here, has an anchor baby(very self centered thing IMHO), builds a life here, and mooches off the system. In my opinion that's Breaking the law in itself. We should treat all illegals the same whether they are Asian, central American, African, Hispanic, etc. the same as other country's do...... Back to which you came. Is it just me or have other country's shot people that tried to enter or leave? And also I feel that they should be black listed for any type of Naturalization.

 

Someone said earlier about having babies in this country to "anchor" or entrap yourself in this country has a positive intention to it. I Politely disagree. Having a child born into this country is no bad thing. We are born, we live, we die, and that's how it works. Hope you had tons of fun. In my opinion that is a very selfish plea to remove yourself for which you came. More over an act of desperation. That sounds more self centered then anything to me.

 

Has anyone mentioned that with illegal immigration comes with good and bad people..... How bout them drugs Arizona? I'm certain the drug lords are friendly.......... Look at them Cross eyed and they box you up and send you to multiple relatives.

 

Someone in relation to me owns a business that hires men of all races. Basic rules. Are you a citizen or have a green card? Do you want to work? Are you willing to travel? In fact a few of his best workers are Hispanic. They all have citizenship...... Whats wrong with the other ones? Heck some of them travel to other states for picking season.

 

Ok, having an anchored family of immigrants here is not costing America money it is actually gaining money............ Seriously...... I think the reason that can be stated is that there is so much that is under the table and "unaccounted For". But as you require I have no Proof Because the numbers would not be there to begin with. Give people the opportunity to gain exponentially for being crooked and by God they will do it.

 

Look at this video, look me in the eye and then tell me This man in the video should be an American Citizen????

 

There are too many loop holes in our system that people jump through all the time... How about a DHS Fup. Mothers I have seen living better then I am due to the 9 children they have from child support without a real job...... I quite literally pay a portion of the money she or he receives..

 

I could go on all night about this. Its a tough subject too with so many opinions out there. Hope you guys get a thought or two out of this. enjoy my opinion.

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I think the Death Penalty without appeal, on a timer, would quickly abate the Illegal problem. No one really wants to take that chance. I volunteer to enforce. Make this Law, Callifornia, Texas, Arizona, and I will heartily support it.

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