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2010 Firearms discussion

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Less than lethal is probably a more apt description than non-lethal. Although less likely to kill, a rock salt shell can still be deadly depending on where it strikes the individual. That said, certainly not an awful idea.



And I'd conjecture that there's probably more than a grain of truth in your statement. Although America and our government and even our citizenry are certainly far from perfect I think we do indeed enjoy a certain level of freedom that many other countries do not. There are other nations out there who enjoy similar freedoms but I think unfortunately that are too many more who merely exist at the whim of and to serve the desires of their respective governments.



The ideas that gun control regulation is built upon generally stems from the best intentions. If it was indeed possible to keep guns out of the hands of everyone, law-abiding citizen and criminal alike, the arguments used by gun control advocates might make a little more sense to me. That being said, I am not a proponent of eliminating all firearms regulation. Far from it, in fact. I certainly do not believe that we should eliminate the laws that have been put in place to regulate the sale and ownership of firearms. Of course there are those who should be barred from ownership, such as convicted felons. I don't necessarily think it would be a bad idea to expand background checks to include inquiries into the mental health history of prospective buyers.


Regulation is certainly necessary when it comes to determining who should be able to buy and own a firearm. At the end of the day they are weapons and you shouldn't be able to go down to the local 7-11 and pick one up on a whim. Regulating the sale and ownership of firearms is not bad in theory but if it cannot be done in an equitable and transparent fashion, well, that's when I start to have an issue with it. There are many states where responsible, law-abiding citizens meet all the requirements for obtaining a weapons permit, for instance, but local or state officials consistently and unflinchingly deny their applications because of their personal views on the matter. Their personal view should in no way influence legislated policy in their particular jurisdiction but it does. And what is the result of their actions? Those citizens who follow the rules bow to the whim of the law (as any law-abiding citizen will) while the criminals continue to follow their own agenda, laws or not. The result? Criminals carrying weapons and citizens unarmed because they follow the rule of law. I'm not necessarily saying that every citizen should arm themselves just because the criminals are. But I think it's fairly obvious that the system in place now is quite broken when the result of regulation is responsible citizens being denied a right guaranteed in our nation's Constitution simply because they choose to follow the law while criminals, who obviously choose not to follow the law, are no more likely to stop carrying their weapon which was likely illegally obtained in the first place. While Georgia, the particular state I live in, has fairly lenient laws when it comes to obtaining a weapons permit and purchasing firearms (i.e. no waiting period for purchases and being a "shall-issue" state for permits) many states are not as "friendly" to gun owners. In a way this is itself a problem. America's patchwork collection of gun control laws, many archaic and barely intelligible, stand as a clear obstacle to any meaningful and useful regulation.


As far as guns escalating things beyond the point of no return, it is not the gun that escalates thing, it is the person carrying it. Just because I'm carrying a weapon doesn't mean I'm brandishing it because some individual throws a tantrum due to road rage. I'd even go so far as to say I'd readily subject myself to a fist-fight before I'd draw a weapon on someone. Just because one is carrying a weapon does not mean they have to use it. In fact, there are very few instances in which I would ever consider drawing my weapon. I will not deny that guns can indeed escalate a given situation. However, I cannot say that the answer is making them illegal. It has been proven time and time again the world over that criminalizing the possession of a firearm does not keep them out of the hands of criminals. Does it make them more difficult to obtain? Sure. Impossible? Hardly. In my mind at least it just isn't the answer. Effective but equitable regulation, not criminalization, seems to be a better answer. Part of the problem with that, I think, is that people on either side of the debate refuse to see from the others' perspective and attempt to reach some sort of compromise.


Australia, though, is not America. I will refrain from making any statements for or against your country's particular method of regulating the sale and ownership of firearms and only say I respect your views on the matter as you have obviously given it some serious thought. After all, we come from two distinctly different cultures possessing their own unique histories and identities. I merely hope to share my view that the VAST majority of citizens who own firearms in America are responsible, safe, law-abiding citizens who present no threat to the safety of society. Unfortunately there will always be "bad apples." In a perfect world it would be a simple matter of weeding out those bad apples and only permitting those responsible citizens to own a firearm. However, we do not live in a perfect world, as I'm sure everyone already knows. In light of that fact, denying everyone the ability to own a firearm is hardly the answer, at least in my mind. I am quite sure there are plenty of folks out there who would disagree.


Good stuff all around, though, folks. Thanks for your input, Mychael, as I now have a better understanding of your country's particular laws concerning the matter than I had before, and knowledge is always a good thing. And Lo, it's quite obvious you and America are involved in some sort of secret love affair so why don't you just go and marry her and get it over with! Heh, I'm screwing with you, of course. Again, thanks for the intelligent discussion. Be well and safe.

Edited by Bizzlenitch

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Good post Bizzlenitch. Too large for me to quote so just a few of points.


I don't even consider criminals in a for or against debate on gun laws as they are outside the law and will do what they want anyway so I don't beleive using them as points of arguement achieves much.


We can of course still purchase most mainstream long and short arms here in Australia just with more rules attached to licencing, purchase etc and I think that's good.


Gun enthusiasts (and I assume you are one) come from the angle of being carefull and responsible etc and that's a good thing, trouble is like any enthusiast we assume everyone will be like us which unfortunately is not the case and that's the problem with everyone having a gun or especially carrying it on their person or having it unsecured at home.


In that scenario I gave before about the road rage incident it would be good if everyone was always as controlled as you are and I was in that instance but people, your normal everyday person will occasionly have a "brain snap", stress, worry, fight with the wife, maybe a diabetic a bit low on sugar, whatever, but their normal good judgement is affected and couple that with an incident and carrying a weapon and you can see how things could suddenly escalate to something very bad. People often say or do things in haste or anger for a multitude of reasons but it's an entirely different scenario when a bullet comes into the equation.


The majority of our home invasions are on soft targets, older people home on their own the sort of person who would not be able to protect themselves with a gun anyway or a single youth walking home in the early hours of the morning set upon by a gang of 10 or more other youths he'll get robbed maybe kicked about somewhat, certainly not good but at least no one is dead however that 2nd scenario is a point in case of putting yourself in harms way and could have been avoided.


Here's a good "what if" scenario for you to think about. Say a friendly but heavily inebriated drunk staggers home from the pub and tries to get into the wrong house, the nervous home owner, afraid he or she is being robbed, reactions and judgement dulled by sleep stands at the top of the stairs or whatever and calls out "go away I have a gun", the drunk too far gone to pay much attention somehow continues his attempts to get in, maybe breaks a window then gets himself shot. Anyway we could all make various for and against scenarios.


As an aside, last week in an outer suburb of Melbourne an armed security guard was robbed whilst carrying a cash bag into a shop, in daylight. All our security people (for money transport) are armed.The security people (wisely I think) did not attempt to use force to prevent the robbery and therefore no bystanders were put in harms way. Sometimes even being armed wont prevent a crime.


Anyway enough of all this, thanks for the sensible and well thought out discussion.


Ps. I've owned shotguns, rifles since I was a boy and have fired most handguns as a guest at open club days. Don't own any firearms now as my interests have moved in other directions, plus my budget wont allow it but had I the time and money I'd get back into it. Maybe a nice Under and Over skeet/trap gun and I'd like to try more pistol shooting but I'd never buy a gun purely for home or personal defence.


Be well, stay safe. Life is frought with peril. ;-)

Edited by Mychael

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Haha, my pro-gun stance,! Yea I thought it would be neat to dress up like a winter commando or something. I actually wear the full face mask minus the goggles at work since I work in a cold warehouse. You were right, the pistol is a Beretta M92FS but the rifle is a semi-auto (or auto loading) SKS with the wood stock on. I've also got a bit of a tactical stock for it too somewhere. For my pistol I just got a cool drop-leg tactical holster platform for to which I've mounted my Blackhawk! SERPA holster and a mag holder to. I also have another platform on my left leg for up to 6 more mags or accessories =).





that wouldnt be a tapco synthetic stock would it? i have an sks (yugo) and ive been wanting to uber tack dat baby. what scope do u think is a decent one that wouldnt break my bank? mind u passed 200 yards i wouldnt worry about it.



ive got a 9m taurus pt92 stainless steel. smooth and snug:)


love the rig. nuthing like a dude wearing tactical to get a gals blood pumping. :woo:




deuces :wave:

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